Many pilots thinking small

braidkid · March 21st, 2005, 10:49

Many pilots thinking small
South Florida Sun-Sentinel 03/20/05
author: Ken Kaye

Small, fast-growing airlines are steadily eroding the big carriers' dominance, and nowhere is that more evident than in pilot hiring.

While the largest airlines still have about 9,100 pilots on furlough, regional and low-fare carriers hired almost 9,400 pilots last year, according to firms that track pilot jobs.

The reason: Smaller carriers, such as Spirit or ExpressJet, are buying more planes while large carriers, such as United and American, are streamlining. That has left smaller carriers, who pay less and don't offer as attractive benefits, hungry to find enough qualified pilots.

"It's been a transition of the industry that's been taking place for many years now," said Jorge Guerra, dean of Broward Community College's Aviation Institute in Pembroke Pines.

Although the Federal Aviation Administration has the same stringent operational and training requirements for both regional and major airlines, regional pilots don't make nearly as much money.

A seasoned co-pilot with five or more years on the job for a major airline, for instance, earns up to $120,000, while his counterpart at a regional makes $70,000 to $80,000.

For that reason, many of the furloughed airline pilots have declined taking jobs at their regional airline partners, even though "scope clauses" in their union contracts would give them top priority.

"You have pilots out there who don't want to take pilot jobs, and they're trying to wait it out," Guerra said, referring to major airline pilots who hope to see their carriers regain solid financial footing.

That leaves lots of opportunity for aspiring airline pilots.

About 65 regional airlines operate about 1,600 jets, with 50 to 100 seats, and have about 350 more on order, according to the Regional Airline Association. Commuter airlines fly into 654 U.S. airports, and they exclusively serve 479 of them.

More than 100 regional and smaller carriers plan to hire 8,000 to 10,000 pilots per year for the next several years, said Kit Darby, president of Air Inc., an Atlanta firm that tracks airline jobs at almost 200 carriers.

Darby said there is no shortage of pilot prospects. Tens of thousands of people are enrolled in flight schools, and thousands more are flight instructors or corporate pilots, most with an eye toward an airline career.

Yet, he added, regional and low-fare airlines are having a difficult time finding pilots -- outside of those on furlough -- who meet their stiff standards in terms of flying experience in sophisticated jets or turbine-powered planes.

Their solution has been to relax their hiring qualifications. About five years ago, most airlines required pilots to have at least 1,500 hours of flying time; today they require 1,000 hours or less.

"The bar has been set high in the past," Darby said. "By lowering the qualifications a little, they have a large pool of people."

Even with lowered requirements, in the past two decades, the average age of freshly hired airline pilots has increased from 28 to 38, and that includes both the regional and major airlines, Darby said. That is because many pilots worked in another career before switching to aviation.

It also is because of federal law that prohibits hiring or discriminating on the basis of age, which went into effect in the late 1960s, as well as the Americans with Disabilities Act, which went into effect in 1990, Darby said.

Starting out small

Pranay Desai, 22, a flight instructor under BCC's aviation program, has taken a typical route toward an airline career.

After earning his private pilot license in December 2000, he enrolled in the Delta Connection Academy in Orlando, where, by July 2002, he earned his instrument rating and flight instructor certificate under an accelerated training program.

Now he has an interview lined up with ExpressJet, a fast-growing carrier based in Houston.

"I'm more than happy to go to a regional and stay there for the rest of my life," he said. "But if opportunity knocks, and I can get a bigger paycheck at a major airline, I would definitely take that opportunity."

Because of the large number of pilots on furlough, the largest airlines don't anticipate hiring pilots for at least a few years.

Some of the so-called legacy carriers, including Northwest, US Airways and Continental, are shrinking their fleets. For instance, United Airlines has been shifting Airbus jets from its mainline fleet to Ted, its low-fare arm.

Others have delayed buying new planes. American Airlines, for instance, has deferred delivery of 54 to 56 Boeing jets to save $1.4 billion.

Only Southwest, America West, JetBlue and AirTran are recruiting, and although they are considered major airlines, they also are low-fare carriers.

Still, not all low-fare carriers are soaring. Indianapolis-based ATA Airlines, restructuring under bankruptcy, released 260 employees and scaled back flights.

Strategic alliances

To guarantee a supply of good pilots, many regional airlines have aligned with career-oriented flight schools, guaranteeing those who graduate at least an interview for a first-officer position.

For instance, Lynn University's School of Aeronautics, based at Boca Raton Airport, has an arrangement with ExpressJet, formerly Continental Express. Broward Community College has linked with Chautauqua and American Eagle.

Jeff Johnson, dean of Lynn's aeronautics school, said interest in airline careers has never been higher.

"We're getting over the real troubled time in the airline industry and students are starting to see that," he said.

Terry Fensome, a former chief pilot for Laker Airways and owner of Pelican Flight Training Center at North Perry Airport, said because of the terrorist attacks, the federal government requires background checks on students.

That has frustrated some aspiring pilots, but it hasn't stopped them from seeking airline careers, he said.

"If you really want to make that your goal, you will achieve it," Fensome tells his students. "One thing for sure: hiring will never stop."

Changing skies

Since February 2004, major airlines have hired fewer pilots than their smaller rivals:

Major airlines (more than $1 billion in yearly sales): 1,038

Nationals ($100 million to $1 billion): 4,055

Regional airlines (less than $100 million): 3,566

Carriers that are recruiting:

Major: Alaska, America West, JetBlue, Southwest and AirTran.

Regional and low-fare: Air Wisconsin, Aloha, American Eagle, Atlantic Southeast, ExpressJet, Frontier, Mesa, SkyWest, Spirit and US Airways Express.

Source: Air Inc. of Atlanta

tonyw · March 21st, 2005, 11:33

Note the source.

Kit Darby.

Now that the Red Sox have won the World Series, know what will be the next sign of the apocolypse?

Kit Darby saying the hiring picture for airlines is not good.

Bog · March 21st, 2005, 11:58

Yeah. Mesa isn't hiring.

cime_sp · March 21st, 2005, 12:02

Where do these people get their numbers? What regional FO is making $80,000? None of them that I know....

Cherokee_Cruiser · March 21st, 2005, 14:27

If Kit Darby said all that...

... it has to be true!

aloft · March 21st, 2005, 14:39

[ QUOTE ]
Where do these people get their numbers? What regional FO is making $80,000? None of them that I know....

[/ QUOTE ]

The more accurate question is: unless they work at Eagle or Horizon, what regional pilot is still an FO in year five? The point being, most are not--and thus most likely on the captain scale, where they are more likely making between $55-75k, depending upon the carrier.

Cherokee_Cruiser · March 21st, 2005, 15:19

[ QUOTE ]
The more accurate question is: unless they work at Eagle or Horizon, what regional pilot is still an FO in year five? The point being, most are not--and thus most likely on the captain scale, where they are more likely making between $55-75k, depending upon the carrier.

[/ QUOTE ]

The most junior Capt. at Mesaba is a Jan 2000 hire. Mesaba does have 5 year F/Os. Era Aviation has 5+ year F/Os. Ex-ACA aka Independance has 5+ year F/O. Over 500 or so CRJ guys were furloughed recently.

5 year F/Os are more and more becoming the norm rather than the exception.

kellwolf · March 21st, 2005, 16:31

And if hiring at the major level stays down, that 5 year FO will probably become the norm, even at places like ExpressJet. What they fail to mention is that without the major carrier's money and ticket revenues, CHQ, XJT, Mesa, etc wouldn't be buying planes at all. It's just cheaper for the majors to "outsource" right now.

Doug Taylor · March 21st, 2005, 16:36

Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis!

Alchemy · March 21st, 2005, 18:34

Expressjet, for instance, doesn't even own any planes. Without CAL we are nothing. We're just cheap contract labor.

Doug Taylor · March 21st, 2005, 18:42

Psst, you're supposed to be clamouring for larger and larger jets flown under a regional-style contract, Alchemy!

Alchemy · March 21st, 2005, 19:23

Oh yeah I keep forgetting that. Bring on the EMB190's! Heck, we'll take a pay cut to fly those since they're super cool big-jets!

Doug Taylor · March 21st, 2005, 19:24

You got it baby!

Bog · March 22nd, 2005, 09:23

... and ALPA will proudly sign off on the contract, too.

Ever wonder why ALPA doesn't have a dedicated negotiating team to handle contract talks for every airline? Seriously ... what do a handful of linepilots really know when they go to bat with the best lawyers money can buy?

/rant

flyover · March 22nd, 2005, 09:40

[ QUOTE ]
The most junior Capt. at Mesaba is a Jan 2000 hire. Mesaba does have 5 year F/Os. Era Aviation has 5+ year F/Os. Ex-ACA aka Independance has 5+ year F/O. Over 500 or so CRJ guys were furloughed recently.

5 year F/Os are more and more becoming the norm rather than the exception.

[/ QUOTE ]

The next big shock coming is the severe retraction coming at the regional level including some companies going out of business. That's when it gets to be a real street fight.

Doug Taylor · March 22nd, 2005, 09:53

Believe me, I'm a big advocate of professional negotiators. In my personal opinion, sending in a line pilot with training to go up against management thugs is laughable.

We supposedly had them for one of the negotiations cycles, but after some further research and an enlightening trip I had with one of our former negotiators, it was more or less done to appease the average line pilot and they were never in direct negotiations with the company.

scottyboy75 · March 22nd, 2005, 12:31

Dumb question from new guy (me). Who is Kit Darby?

SteveC · March 22nd, 2005, 12:53

[ QUOTE ]
Dumb question from new guy (me). Who is Kit Darby?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll introduce you, but only if you promise to keep your hand on your wallet.

Air Inc.

scottyboy75 · March 22nd, 2005, 19:24

Ohh, thats Kit Darby

ROFCIBC · March 22nd, 2005, 21:06

[ QUOTE ]
Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis!

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug,

Kind of the JJ on your board! Woo Hoo! (that's a NASCAR term)

SteveC · March 22nd, 2005, 21:43

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis!

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug,

Kind of the JJ on your board! Woo Hoo! (that's a NASCAR term)

[/ QUOTE ]

Junior Johnson?

Doug Taylor · March 22nd, 2005, 21:53

JJ. Geez, I'm sure he's a nice cat in person, but on the DALPA forums, what a friggen weirdo.

"Don't consider it a overpriced can of roach spray, think of it as a business opportunity!"

Doug Taylor · March 22nd, 2005, 21:54

[ QUOTE ]

Junior Johnson?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, he's a guy on another forum that's constantly plugging this weird MLM-style mortgage rip-off.

March 21st, 2005, 10:49	#1
braidkid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 556	Many pilots thinking small Many pilots thinking small South Florida Sun-Sentinel 03/20/05 author: Ken Kaye Small, fast-growing airlines are steadily eroding the big carriers' dominance, and nowhere is that more evident than in pilot hiring. While the largest airlines still have about 9,100 pilots on furlough, regional and low-fare carriers hired almost 9,400 pilots last year, according to firms that track pilot jobs. The reason: Smaller carriers, such as Spirit or ExpressJet, are buying more planes while large carriers, such as United and American, are streamlining. That has left smaller carriers, who pay less and don't offer as attractive benefits, hungry to find enough qualified pilots. "It's been a transition of the industry that's been taking place for many years now," said Jorge Guerra, dean of Broward Community College's Aviation Institute in Pembroke Pines. Although the Federal Aviation Administration has the same stringent operational and training requirements for both regional and major airlines, regional pilots don't make nearly as much money. A seasoned co-pilot with five or more years on the job for a major airline, for instance, earns up to $120,000, while his counterpart at a regional makes $70,000 to $80,000. For that reason, many of the furloughed airline pilots have declined taking jobs at their regional airline partners, even though "scope clauses" in their union contracts would give them top priority. "You have pilots out there who don't want to take pilot jobs, and they're trying to wait it out," Guerra said, referring to major airline pilots who hope to see their carriers regain solid financial footing. That leaves lots of opportunity for aspiring airline pilots. About 65 regional airlines operate about 1,600 jets, with 50 to 100 seats, and have about 350 more on order, according to the Regional Airline Association. Commuter airlines fly into 654 U.S. airports, and they exclusively serve 479 of them. More than 100 regional and smaller carriers plan to hire 8,000 to 10,000 pilots per year for the next several years, said Kit Darby, president of Air Inc., an Atlanta firm that tracks airline jobs at almost 200 carriers. Darby said there is no shortage of pilot prospects. Tens of thousands of people are enrolled in flight schools, and thousands more are flight instructors or corporate pilots, most with an eye toward an airline career. Yet, he added, regional and low-fare airlines are having a difficult time finding pilots -- outside of those on furlough -- who meet their stiff standards in terms of flying experience in sophisticated jets or turbine-powered planes. Their solution has been to relax their hiring qualifications. About five years ago, most airlines required pilots to have at least 1,500 hours of flying time; today they require 1,000 hours or less. "The bar has been set high in the past," Darby said. "By lowering the qualifications a little, they have a large pool of people." Even with lowered requirements, in the past two decades, the average age of freshly hired airline pilots has increased from 28 to 38, and that includes both the regional and major airlines, Darby said. That is because many pilots worked in another career before switching to aviation. It also is because of federal law that prohibits hiring or discriminating on the basis of age, which went into effect in the late 1960s, as well as the Americans with Disabilities Act, which went into effect in 1990, Darby said. Starting out small Pranay Desai, 22, a flight instructor under BCC's aviation program, has taken a typical route toward an airline career. After earning his private pilot license in December 2000, he enrolled in the Delta Connection Academy in Orlando, where, by July 2002, he earned his instrument rating and flight instructor certificate under an accelerated training program. Now he has an interview lined up with ExpressJet, a fast-growing carrier based in Houston. "I'm more than happy to go to a regional and stay there for the rest of my life," he said. "But if opportunity knocks, and I can get a bigger paycheck at a major airline, I would definitely take that opportunity." Because of the large number of pilots on furlough, the largest airlines don't anticipate hiring pilots for at least a few years. Some of the so-called legacy carriers, including Northwest, US Airways and Continental, are shrinking their fleets. For instance, United Airlines has been shifting Airbus jets from its mainline fleet to Ted, its low-fare arm. Others have delayed buying new planes. American Airlines, for instance, has deferred delivery of 54 to 56 Boeing jets to save $1.4 billion. Only Southwest, America West, JetBlue and AirTran are recruiting, and although they are considered major airlines, they also are low-fare carriers. Still, not all low-fare carriers are soaring. Indianapolis-based ATA Airlines, restructuring under bankruptcy, released 260 employees and scaled back flights. Strategic alliances To guarantee a supply of good pilots, many regional airlines have aligned with career-oriented flight schools, guaranteeing those who graduate at least an interview for a first-officer position. For instance, Lynn University's School of Aeronautics, based at Boca Raton Airport, has an arrangement with ExpressJet, formerly Continental Express. Broward Community College has linked with Chautauqua and American Eagle. Jeff Johnson, dean of Lynn's aeronautics school, said interest in airline careers has never been higher. "We're getting over the real troubled time in the airline industry and students are starting to see that," he said. Terry Fensome, a former chief pilot for Laker Airways and owner of Pelican Flight Training Center at North Perry Airport, said because of the terrorist attacks, the federal government requires background checks on students. That has frustrated some aspiring pilots, but it hasn't stopped them from seeking airline careers, he said. "If you really want to make that your goal, you will achieve it," Fensome tells his students. "One thing for sure: hiring will never stop." Changing skies Since February 2004, major airlines have hired fewer pilots than their smaller rivals: Major airlines (more than $1 billion in yearly sales): 1,038 Nationals ($100 million to $1 billion): 4,055 Regional airlines (less than $100 million): 3,566 Carriers that are recruiting: Major: Alaska, America West, JetBlue, Southwest and AirTran. Regional and low-fare: Air Wisconsin, Aloha, American Eagle, Atlantic Southeast, ExpressJet, Frontier, Mesa, SkyWest, Spirit and US Airways Express. Source: Air Inc. of Atlanta

March 21st, 2005, 11:33	#2
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,471	Re: Many pilots thinking small Note the source. Kit Darby. Now that the Red Sox have won the World Series, know what will be the next sign of the apocolypse? Kit Darby saying the hiring picture for airlines is not good.

March 21st, 2005, 11:58	#3
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Many pilots thinking small Yeah. Mesa isn't hiring.

March 21st, 2005, 12:02	#4
cime_sp Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: ATL Posts: 781	Re: Many pilots thinking small Where do these people get their numbers? What regional FO is making $80,000? None of them that I know....

March 21st, 2005, 14:27	#5
Cherokee_Cruiser Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,419	Re: Many pilots thinking small If Kit Darby said all that... ... it has to be true!

March 21st, 2005, 14:39	#6
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 6,871	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] Where do these people get their numbers? What regional FO is making $80,000? None of them that I know.... [/ QUOTE ] The more accurate question is: unless they work at Eagle or Horizon, what regional pilot is still an FO in year five? The point being, most are not--and thus most likely on the captain scale, where they are more likely making between $55-75k, depending upon the carrier.

March 21st, 2005, 15:19	#7
Cherokee_Cruiser Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,419	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] The more accurate question is: unless they work at Eagle or Horizon, what regional pilot is still an FO in year five? The point being, most are not--and thus most likely on the captain scale, where they are more likely making between $55-75k, depending upon the carrier. [/ QUOTE ] The most junior Capt. at Mesaba is a Jan 2000 hire. Mesaba does have 5 year F/Os. Era Aviation has 5+ year F/Os. Ex-ACA aka Independance has 5+ year F/O. Over 500 or so CRJ guys were furloughed recently. 5 year F/Os are more and more becoming the norm rather than the exception.

March 21st, 2005, 16:31	#8
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: Many pilots thinking small And if hiring at the major level stays down, that 5 year FO will probably become the norm, even at places like ExpressJet. What they fail to mention is that without the major carrier's money and ticket revenues, CHQ, XJT, Mesa, etc wouldn't be buying planes at all. It's just cheaper for the majors to "outsource" right now.

March 21st, 2005, 16:36	#9
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis!

March 21st, 2005, 18:34	#10
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,752	Re: Many pilots thinking small Expressjet, for instance, doesn't even own any planes. Without CAL we are nothing. We're just cheap contract labor.

March 21st, 2005, 18:42	#11
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small Psst, you're supposed to be clamouring for larger and larger jets flown under a regional-style contract, Alchemy!

March 21st, 2005, 19:23	#12
Alchemy Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Austin, TX, USA Posts: 1,752	Re: Many pilots thinking small Oh yeah I keep forgetting that. Bring on the EMB190's! Heck, we'll take a pay cut to fly those since they're super cool big-jets!

March 21st, 2005, 19:24	#13
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small You got it baby!

March 22nd, 2005, 09:23	#14
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,164	Re: Many pilots thinking small ... and ALPA will proudly sign off on the contract, too. Ever wonder why ALPA doesn't have a dedicated negotiating team to handle contract talks for every airline? Seriously ... what do a handful of linepilots really know when they go to bat with the best lawyers money can buy? /rant

March 22nd, 2005, 09:40	#15
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] The most junior Capt. at Mesaba is a Jan 2000 hire. Mesaba does have 5 year F/Os. Era Aviation has 5+ year F/Os. Ex-ACA aka Independance has 5+ year F/O. Over 500 or so CRJ guys were furloughed recently. 5 year F/Os are more and more becoming the norm rather than the exception. [/ QUOTE ] The next big shock coming is the severe retraction coming at the regional level including some companies going out of business. That's when it gets to be a real street fight.

March 22nd, 2005, 09:53	#16
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small Believe me, I'm a big advocate of professional negotiators. In my personal opinion, sending in a line pilot with training to go up against management thugs is laughable. We supposedly had them for one of the negotiations cycles, but after some further research and an enlightening trip I had with one of our former negotiators, it was more or less done to appease the average line pilot and they were never in direct negotiations with the company.

March 22nd, 2005, 12:31	#17
scottyboy75 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: SLC Posts: 764	Re: Many pilots thinking small Dumb question from new guy (me). Who is Kit Darby?

March 22nd, 2005, 12:53	#18
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,505	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] Dumb question from new guy (me). Who is Kit Darby? [/ QUOTE ] I'll introduce you, but only if you promise to keep your hand on your wallet. Air Inc.

March 22nd, 2005, 19:24	#19
scottyboy75 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: SLC Posts: 764	Re: Many pilots thinking small Ohh, thats Kit Darby

March 22nd, 2005, 21:06	#20
ROFCIBC Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bossier City, Louisiana Posts: 591	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis! [/ QUOTE ] Doug, Kind of the JJ on your board! Woo Hoo! (that's a NASCAR term)

March 22nd, 2005, 21:43	#21
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,505	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Kit's at it again. Oh joy. Ahh, an early jetcareers nemesis! [/ QUOTE ] Doug, Kind of the JJ on your board! Woo Hoo! (that's a NASCAR term) [/ QUOTE ] Junior Johnson?

March 22nd, 2005, 21:53	#22
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small JJ. Geez, I'm sure he's a nice cat in person, but on the DALPA forums, what a friggen weirdo. "Don't consider it a overpriced can of roach spray, think of it as a business opportunity!"

March 22nd, 2005, 21:54	#23
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,600 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Many pilots thinking small [ QUOTE ] Junior Johnson? [/ QUOTE ] Nah, he's a guy on another forum that's constantly plugging this weird MLM-style mortgage rip-off.

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