Commercial Pilots: Still enjoy flying?

[Texguy]

I have a question for those who are past the instructing level and have been flying for some time now: Do you still enjoy flying for a living?

I've been formulating this post in my mind for some time. I'm 29 and single; hope to have a family one day. I have a PPL. I keep going back and forth on whether or not I want to fly for a living. I know that only I can make that decision. I keep coming back to flying because it's more enjoyable than being at a desk.

I've been reading posts here for several months and have come up with a lot of negatives about flying professionally, which I'll list below. If any of these aren't negatives for you, I'd like to hear why. If you still enjoy flying for a living: what do you enjoy about it? Is it still your dream job?

Doug seems a little burned out and I know he preaches that flying won't make you happy. John_Tenney was with the airlines and left to do other things - why'd you leave the airlines, John? Conversely, ROFCIBC seems to have nothing but positive things to say about his career. Lots of different perspectives out there. I'm curious...did it turn out to be a "grass is greener on the other side" thing for you commercial pilots? I mean, did you become a commercial pilot because you enjoyed GA so much, only to find that doing it for a living sucked the fun out of it?

Here are the things that steer me from a flying career, in no particular order:

1. Being away from home half the time or more. (Although Kingairdriver has a sweet government job where he's home every night, but those jobs are rare.)
2. Delays (weather, maintenance, waiting around between flights.)
3. $30K and up for flight training, and trying to pay that back as a CFI or regional pilot.
4. Crappy weather at your layover
5. Getting diverted occasionally and having your whole schedule messed up
6. 6-leg days (I don't have the greatest back.)
7. Increasingly automated aircraft
8. Repetitive scenery (Doug said something about just flying over fields of crops nowadays)
9. Missing parties, weddings, etc. because you're working when your friends are off.
10. Recurrent training sounds like a necessary evil.
11. 4:30 a.m. wake-up calls
12. Diminishing airline wages
13. Living in hotels half of the time
14. Weird stuff like celebrating Christmas on Dec. 27

Thank you very much for your insight.

[I_Money]

I think you described it best - the flying is great, the [censored] that goes a long with it drives people up the wall!

[LFC]

I think its probably different for everyone. I mean, everything has compromises and sacrifices. Working at a job you are not happy at will seriously kill you slowly. Flying is a very unique job but the lifestyle might not be ideal for certain people. It depends on how much you are willing to sacrifice in comparison to how much you'll gain. I'm kind of pondering the same question right now. I decided that the only way I'll know is by trying it out. I might regret it all my life if I don't. And if it doesnt turn out to be all I expected I'll just pack up my bags and build on this economics degree I'm paying thousands of dollars for. Good Luck.

[DE727UPS]

"John_Tenney was with the airlines and left to do other things"

He didn't exactly leave by choice. He was furloughed from Midway, which, at one time, flew 737's and DC9's. After that, he decided he'd had enough of the airline biz (JT, correct me if I'm wrong)

4. Crappy weather at your layover

I don't really worry about that. You have a lot of equipment to help you with the weather and you can still decide to go somewhere else, if necessary. Unless you mean it might rain while your sitting by the pool, in which case, I agree with you.

All of the points you mention (except 4) are things I completely agree with you on. Very well thought out and stuff you won't find out about unless you come to jetcareers or know an airline pilot. This is EXACTLY why the big academies don't want a jetcareers link at their site. Or a jetcareers poster on their wall. Then, people will see the other side of the picture.

Now for my insight. In spite of all the things you mention, I still like being a pilot. You have to weigh the good with the bad and come out with an overall choice. A choice that's worked out pretty well for me. One that I would still do over if I had it to do again.

At the same time, I could easily walk away from the career, for the right reasons, and not shead a tear.

[ROFCIBC]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question for those who are past the instructing level and have been flying for some time now: Do you still enjoy flying for a living?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my perspective on some of the things you mention.

1. Being away from home half the time or more. (Although Kingairdriver has a sweet government job where he's home every night, but those jobs are rare.)

Fact of life of a lot of jobs. If you approach it as just part of the job then make the most of your time at home, eventually you just don't notice it. Kind of like a three hour each day commute from the 'burbs to work and back. Just becomes part of your routine.

2. Delays (weather, maintenance, waiting around between flights.)

doo-doo happens...what else can you say?

3. $30K and up for flight training, and trying to pay that back as a CFI or regional pilot.

I came through the military. Didn't have to pay the $$ but did pay in other ways. Makes no difference how you get the qualifications to make a living in the profession of flying airplanes. It's just like a doctor and medical school, or a lawyer doing whatever they do to get to where everybody hates them!

4. Crappy weather at your layover.

Never had a layover I didn't enjoy. You are going to be there no matter what...might as well have a smile on your face and enjoy it as you should enjoy life itself...look at the alternative!

5. Getting diverted occasionally and having your whole schedule messed up.

Variety is the spice of life! I had fun spending New Years Eve in Billings when I was supposed to be in San Diego!

6. 6-leg days (I don't have the greatest back.)

Beats the snot out of BOS-PDX! Or Barksdale AFB, LA to Diego Garcia out in the middle of the Indian Ocean! Takeoffs and landings are the fun part of aviation!

7. Increasingly automated aircraft.

Gives you time to sightsee...and plan to travel on the ground to see what the Bitterroot Mountains look like up close and personal!

8. Repetitive scenery (Doug said something about just flying over fields of crops nowadays)

I disagree with my swarthy friend and fellow Delta Pilot. I was fascinated by what I saw and always tried to find out about that which I had just seen. For instance, do you know the four rivers that flow into Lake Powell?

9. Missing parties, weddings, etc. because you're working when your friends are off.

And they are probably working when you are off! Bitching because they are working and you are out playing golf! It all equals out.

10. Recurrent training sounds like a necessary evil.

So is filling up the beer box! Seriously I always approached recurrent training as just that...training. An opportunity to "TRAIN" for that event I hoped I never had to do for "REAL"!

11. 4:30 a.m. wake-up calls.

Being one of those really oddballs who is wide awake at 4:00 AM, I never got a wake-up call at 4:30! I got great schedules because I liked the early gitgos! Also has the advantage of being up before the thunderstorms wake up...and on the ground at the bar when they do!

12. Diminishing airline wages.

Can't say much about that except one piece of advice. Do not develop the lifestyle of the rich and famous before you really are! Live within your means, buy only what you can afford. Old school!

13. Living in hotels half of the time.

Only bad if you STAY in the hotel! Get out...see what is around...even in Montgomery, Alabama there are things to do! And Monroe, Louisiana too! Fun is where you find it!

14. Weird stuff like celebrating Christmas on Dec. 27.

Early on I accepted that a year is 365 twenty-four hour periods. No names, no numbers, nothing else! Once you accept that, holidays and things like that came when you could be with your loved ones celebrating them.

The key to a flying profession is to understand and accept the things that go along with it. When you consider just how few humans on the face of the earth actually do fly, you'll realize just how exclusive this group is. There are millions and millions of people out there who will never know that joy of flight. Of doing the things that John Gillespie McGee wrote of...of slipping those surly bounds...and reaching out to touch the face of God!

That my friend is what makes aviation such a wonderful and rewarding profession.

[stuckingfk]

Good post ROFCIBC

[Kingairdriver]

Just remember, flying is going to be what you make out of it. If you're not into the airline way of life like much of what you listed is probably like, there are always other options. Just like Doctors, where some like working in the big city Emergency Rooms (Think ER) while others like to hang their shingle out and settle into a nice little 9-4 practice with weekends off. I'ts all a matter of preference. There are plenty of jobs out there where you can fly AND have a regular (what some would consider normal) way of life. If flying is a passion, you'll know it because almost nothing will stop you from pursuing your goal to meet this end. You just have to determine whether it's a full time passion or "sweet tooth" that you can satisfy from time to time on the weekends, because if it's the latter you may never be happy with some of the sacrifices that come along with this way of life.

Speaking as someone who had a complete first career in a non-aviation related field and departed that one to pursue "my" dream job, I can tell you unequivocaley that for me, I would'nt be doing anything else. Flying is a job with rewards greater than financial or material compensation. It's a job where you have the opportunity to leave this Earth on a regular basis and dance among the clouds, where your troubles are gravity bound and for just a short while you can look down on God's creation and bathe in the pure untouched sunlight.....man, just thinking about flying makes me want to go flying..............

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
"John_Tenney was with the airlines and left to do other things"

He didn't exactly leave by choice. He was furloughed from Midway, which, at one time, flew 737's and DC9's. After that, he decided he'd had enough of the airline biz (JT, correct me if I'm wrong)


[/ QUOTE ]

No you're right (except it's 737s and RJs - never had DC9s. There were some F100s for a while.) but that was a God thing. I needed a holy two by four cracked acrost my head to make me realize that life outside the airlines was much better.

I had a few chances to go back and turned them down - Pinnacle, PSA, and others.

I pretty much agree with all of those points in the first post.

[mtsu_av8er]

Thanks, ROFCIBC . Imagine that...an airline pilot that does more than whine and moan about life...

[Snow]

That's interesting cause I'm training with an old Midway EMB-120 Captain right now.

I agree with the previous posts although I can't speak much from experence. There's always a good and down side to everything and if you focus on the good things then you'll be a happier person. There's always somthing to complain about if you try and it seems some pilots just like to complain but that's their problem not mine.

[ROFCIBC]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, ROFCIBC . Imagine that...an airline pilot that does more than whine and moan about life...


[/ QUOTE ]

From my experience bank...

My Dad, God bless him taught me the idea that you only have one life and you don't know when it's going to end, so enjoy it to the fullest! Dad lived to be 98, and lived with me the last six years of his life! He dropped out of high school in 1917, yet had wisdom beyond learned scholars and so called brilliant thinkers. I loved him and I miss him terribly

He said you can go through life being miserable or take a positive attitude toward it. Even during hard times. Dad & Mom got married and set up house keeping right after the great depression started so they knew hard times and misery. Survived those times and were married 55 years when Mom died.

I tried to live like Dad taught me. All pissing and moaning does is make you and those around you miserable. Doesn't make what's bothering you go away, just makes you miserable! So why do it?

Dad said, "show concern, not worry". His point was worry was an emotion and concern was logical thought. Worry as an emotion, can't differentiate between things you can do something about and ones you just have to live with. Concern can...and does...and armed with that knowledge you move on and live with bad times in the best possible light.

[Kristie]

Very nicely said!

or in even shorter terms "when given lemons, make lemonade!"

we all take the good with the bad...it's what you do with it that makes the difference in how you live your life!

[Coney]

Hey, Texguy. I can appreciate your concerns. I'm not yet a career pilot, but I have certainly pondered much of the same issues you mentioned in your post, especially the one about being away from home so much. I'll let you (and everyone else) in on something. A few years ago, I received a phone call from my contact at the Navy Recruiting District in Dallas. I had spent the previous 7 months jumping through hoops applying to Officer Candidate School for the Navy. I finally received word that I had been "selected" to attend OCS with my first choice designator of Naval Aviator. I jumped up and down and shouted, because I had finally earned the opportunity. I swore in and went to OCS in Pensacola, FL and was doing very well. Thing is, I began to realize exactly what I was getting into. The reality of the life I was signing up for started to make me wonder if I was the right guy for the job. I was engaged to my wife at that time (who was totally supportive of my choice to be a Navy pilot). But I just didn't think I was willing to be at sea for such long periods. To make a long story short, I submitted my DOR (drop on request) after 6 weeks. I DO want to fly for a living, just not in a military capacity. While I don't regret my choice to DOR, I'd be lying if I said that it doesn't sting a bit now and then. That's the biggest driving force for me now and why I'm not letting it go this time. I'm going all the way with my flying, and if I decide later that the QOL sucks, then I'll make a decision at that point. But I DON'T want to be in a position of not having the option to fly.

Hope this helps. Good Luck, man.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

JT,

I forgot that you flew for Midway! Since you have 737 experience, why not apply to Southwest (instead of Pinnacle, PSA, etc. as you mentioned) ?

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]

I tried to live like Dad taught me. All pissing and moaning does is make you and those around you miserable. Doesn't make what's bothering you go away, just makes you miserable! So why do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude (said with the most respectable tone I can make ), thank you so much for your positive attitude and bright outlook on life. This career field can have enough challenges as it is, and it's etremely inspiring to see your enthusiasm. As a flight instructor, all I see is the whining (these planes are hot, the planes are cold, there are no students, I work too much, I don't work enough, I hate the Assistant Chief [I can understand the last one... ]) and it's enough to drive one crazy. Seven out of ten times, it's the non-hackers that complain the most!!!!

I keep my head up and I'm enjoying the ride. Just wanted to say thanks for the good attitude - it keeps some of us going!!

[aviategw]

I'm kinda new to this thread, and to the aviation career, but my two cents is to do what you love. I'm very, VERY, broke, I've been at the airport every day for the last three months stumping for students, my dog barely recognizes me anymore...and I LOVE what I'm doing. Sure, there are things about every stage of an aviation career that are unpleasant; but, who really gets to do what they want in life?

I do.

I like the lemon into lemonade analogy. Good stuff.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
JT,

I forgot that you flew for Midway! Since you have 737 experience, why not apply to Southwest (instead of Pinnacle, PSA, etc. as you mentioned) ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I did. Southwest does not care about 737 experience, all they care about is the type. Midway didn't type FOs (would you?)

And seriously, I am much better off today than I would be at any airline.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
That's interesting cause I'm training with an old Midway EMB-120 Captain right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

Midway never had Brasillias! Never!

At RDU the aircraft were A320s, F100s, CRJs and finally 737-700s.

The original Midway (at MDW) was all 737-200s from what I was told.

[Derek_S]

Just wanted to say thanks ROFCIBC for the encouraging words, life is what you make of it. Ever since I was a little kid I have always wanted to fly for the airlines and now I have had to think really hard about it after hearing all of these other stories, but it is nice to hear some positive's.

Also, a question for all the commercial pilots... do you still have the same joy of flying GA on your days off with family and friends just as when you first started flying?

[Texguy]

Many thanks to each one of you for the helpful remarks, especially ROFCIBC's detailed answer and Kingairdriver's poetic response. ROFCIBC, you're just so darn positive. Where can I obtain that of which you smoke? Seriously, thank you for the words to live by.

Lloyd, I can't see your avatar. I haven't seen anyone else say anything so I guess I'm the only one.

One more concern I have...Is it just me, or will competition for a job at the majors or FedEx or UPS probably be stiffer than ever for years to come, given the number of regional and furloughed pilots out there? I know the future can't be predicted and that I'm years away from being qualified, but the market now for major airline pilot jobs seems uber-flooded.

[DE727UPS]

"or will competition for a job at the majors or FedEx or UPS probably be stiffer than ever for years to come"

Yeah. I think so.

[eeg]

I don't see his avatar either...

[ROFCIBC]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a question for all the commercial pilots... do you still have the same joy of flying GA on your days off with family and friends just as when you first started flying?

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience...

I haven't been in, or flown a GA airplane for at least 35 years. That being said, for the first seven years I flew for Delta Air Lines I also flew KC10s for the Air Force, so really didn't have enough time to do much else. As I came up via the military, my only GA type flying was at Purdue in the FIP program.

I've toyed with the idea, egged on by some UPT classmates, of getting an RV something and doing some flying. Also keep getting bugged by the Barksdale Aero Club head honcho to come out and get my CFI and do some instruction.

Right now, I'm just happy to have the time to do all the things I kept putting off when I was flying for a living. With time...who knows...may get the "itch" again...may not.

I'm doing the Oshkosh Air Venture again this year, and will admit the "itch" does get worse as I see all that goes on in the GA side of the house.

One thing for sure...I'd get some really good dual instruction time before I ever thought about taking someone else up in a GA aircraft. And then day VFR only! Seen examples where some pilot with a bazillion hours of big airplane commercial time gets into a Cessna 172 and ends up a hole in the ground because his ego got in front of his brain! Or a guy like Jack Roush of NASCAR fame who flew his own P51 and then got in some ultra light homebuilt and nearly killed himself! Or JFK jr and his high dollar, foo-foo plane that was way beyond his experience level killing himself and taking two innocent victims with him.

[ROFCIBC]

[ QUOTE ]
ROFCIBC, you're just so darn positive. Where can I obtain that of which you smoke? Seriously, thank you for the words to live by.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO aviation is about 95% attitude and 5% motor skills. (Inflight refueling as a receiver...99% and 1%!) Anybody who really WANTS to, who will WORK hard enough, can master it. Trust me, I know...every time I look in a mirror I see an example of that! And that attitude is the same with life in general. Be negative and you will live, act, perform the same way. Your successes will be few and far between.

Be positive, be forward looking, have a good attitude and even during the most trying times, you will have more success and less stress than if you are negative in your outlook!

BTW I don’t smoke, and never have. I did try sniffing Coke one time...bubbles made me sneeze and I ended up with nothing to show but a sticky nose!

[Texguy]

[ QUOTE ]
"or will competition for a job at the majors or FedEx or UPS probably be stiffer than ever for years to come"

Yeah. I think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there goes my buzz. DE727UPS, you're supposed to only tell me what I want to hear. Just kidding. Let's hope we're wrong.