"Forward facing cockpit"

[Buckeye757]

Which airliner was the first to introduce the two person cockpit? I read somewere that it was a variant of the A300. Is this true? Also did the 737-200 ever had a 3rd crewmember or has it always just been a captain and first officer?

[flyguy]

Just a wild guess but I think it was the 757. And yes the 737-200 had a 3 person crew.

[flyover]

That probably goes back to the Ford Tri-Motor or in Europe one of the early Junkers.

For jets it was the DC-9. The 737 had a 3 member crew by union fiat only and was not required by the design certification.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
Which airliner was the first to introduce the two person cockpit? I read somewere that it was a variant of the A300. Is this true? Also did the 737-200 ever had a 3rd crewmember or has it always just been a captain and first officer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about the 200, but the 737-100 was originally staffed by 3, with the FE sitting on the jumpseat. It's all in Flying the Line Part 2

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which airliner was the first to introduce the two person cockpit? I read somewere that it was a variant of the A300. Is this true? Also did the 737-200 ever had a 3rd crewmember or has it always just been a captain and first officer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure about the 200, but the 737-100 was originally staffed by 3, with the FE sitting on the jumpseat. It's all in Flying the Line Part 2

[/ QUOTE ]

It was a second officer, not a flight engineer. No version of the 737 ever required a flight engineer.

[Mr_Creepy]

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It was a second officer, not a flight engineer. No version of the 737 ever required a flight engineer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be so but all you needed was an FE ticket to sit there, professional engineers did it as well as pilots.

[Polarbear]

Maybe I'm thinking too old(and non-jet), but the DC-3 had a two person crew if I am not mistaken.

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was a second officer, not a flight engineer. No version of the 737 ever required a flight engineer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be so but all you needed was an FE ticket to sit there, professional engineers did it as well as pilots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are talking about a union requirement. It had nothing to do with the airplane. They could have made it a requirement that you had to be a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader. Which would have been more fun.

[ROFCIBC]

[ QUOTE ]
Which airliner was the first to introduce the two person cockpit? I read somewere that it was a variant of the A300. Is this true? Also did the 737-200 ever had a 3rd crewmember or has it always just been a captain and first officer?

[/ QUOTE ]

While not technically an airliner, the KC135, unlike it's civil counterpart, did not have a flight engineer. Two pilots, a navigator, and boom operator. Old story is that General LeMay didn’t want a flight engineer, although all tankers to that point in SAC had one. NOTE: by “old” story I mean that predates even moi!

They basically took the items off the flight engineers panel and put them up front. Electrical and pressurization on the overhead, hydraulics to the left of the pilot, and the fuel panel foward of the throttle quadrant on the center console.

Eventually they eliminated (or are in the process of doing so) the navigator.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was a second officer, not a flight engineer. No version of the 737 ever required a flight engineer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be so but all you needed was an FE ticket to sit there, professional engineers did it as well as pilots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are talking about a union requirement. It had nothing to do with the airplane. They could have made it a requirement that you had to be a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader. Which would have been more fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's pretty funny but are you serious? You had to be a "certificated cockpit crewmember" and at the time only two types of people were cockpit crewmembers in the FAA's eyes - pilot or FE.

Wasn't it the mid 80's that dispatchers and mechanics were allowed to fly on the jumpseat during revenue flights?

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
That's pretty funny but are you serious? You had to be a "certificated cockpit crewmember" and at the time only two types of people were cockpit crewmembers in the FAA's eyes - pilot or FE.

Wasn't it the mid 80's that dispatchers and mechanics were allowed to fly on the jumpseat during revenue flights?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mechanics and dispatchers can still ride it with proper credentials.

I'm serious. (And don't call me Shirley.) The SO position on the 737 was totally a union deal by United, one of the launch customers. So of course the company put it in their ops specs, approved by FAA, so it was official. They didn't change the airplane, just had the guy sit there and run checklists and play with the few things he could reach from the jumpseat, make PAs, get the coffee, etc. It was an uncomfortable seat and a boring job, I was told at the time. Delta was introducing the DC-9 about the same time and refused to go along with the 3 man cockpit, so eventually UAL's union folded, end of story. I don't believe the other early 737 operators were too interested in 3 man crews either.

[Mr_Creepy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's pretty funny but are you serious? You had to be a "certificated cockpit crewmember" and at the time only two types of people were cockpit crewmembers in the FAA's eyes - pilot or FE.

Wasn't it the mid 80's that dispatchers and mechanics were allowed to fly on the jumpseat during revenue flights?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mechanics and dispatchers can still ride it with proper credentials.

I'm serious. (And don't call me Shirley.) The SO position on the 737 was totally a union deal by United, one of the launch customers. So of course the company put it in their ops specs, approved by FAA, so it was official. They didn't change the airplane, just had the guy sit there and run checklists and play with the few things he could reach from the jumpseat, make PAs, get the coffee, etc. It was an uncomfortable seat and a boring job, I was told at the time. Delta was introducing the DC-9 about the same time and refused to go along with the 3 man cockpit, so eventually UAL's union folded, end of story. I don't believe the other early 737 operators were too interested in 3 man crews either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have typed "the mid 80's BEFORE mechanics and dispacthers were allowed ..."