Mpls TV Stations' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings

JEP · February 26th, 2005, 05:54

Baronman · February 26th, 2005, 06:09

I love how they insinuate that the pilots were acting irresponsibly. Why are they bashing these guys when they were flying the plane within it's enevelope?! The title of the piece could have just as easily been, "Canadian aircraft manufacturer certifies aircraft beyond it's capabilities." or, "Canada, friendly neighbor to the north or designer of faulty aircraft." grrrrr

TallBoy85 · February 26th, 2005, 07:17

[ QUOTE ]
"Canada, friendly neighbor to the north or designer of faulty aircraft."

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the domestic safety record of the CRJ I would watch what you say in the company of CRJ pilots.

Unfortunately we live in a world with sensationalist media and pilot bashing is what we get. No one is willing to invest the time in researching flameouts, compressor stalls...any random freak occurence that could cause a dual flame out at FL410...so its the pilots fault, even though they were operating WITHIN (not at) their specified limitations.

But bottom line, people died. Get over what the media says, get over what Canadair or the NTSB says...stuff happens. We need to do our best to remember those gentlemen as they were...our pilot brothers.

Mr_Creepy · February 26th, 2005, 07:21

What an incredibly irresponsible piece of journalism.

I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem.

Baronman · February 26th, 2005, 10:10

[ QUOTE ]
Given the domestic safety record of the CRJ I would watch what you say in the company of CRJ pilots.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why, might I hurt their feelings?

Doug Taylor · February 26th, 2005, 12:26

Unfortuantely, those stories sell and always have.

Just because a plane has been to 410, does necessarily mean it can always make 410 because of atmospoheric conditions (ISA) , aircraft weight and the amount of "protection" you'd like at altitude (1.3g, 1.5g, etc).

Don't confuse 'service ceiling' as a solid number that the aircraft can attain safely each time.

PeanuckleCRJ · February 26th, 2005, 13:59

It was ISA +12 that night. I've been up to 39 before... I know of a number of guys that have been up to 41.

Reading that just killed my mood today..

God bless Jesse and Peter.

I aboloutely cannot stand the news media.

JEP · February 26th, 2005, 19:29

[ QUOTE ]
It was ISA +12 that night. I've been up to 39 before... I know of a number of guys that have been up to 41.

Reading that just killed my mood today..

God bless Jesse and Peter.

I aboloutely cannot stand the news media.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't mean to be a downer, Peaknuckle.....I just found it disturbing that the news would even say...."they were having fun". I hope that what they printed was from the actual recordins and not something they just heard.

DE727UPS · February 26th, 2005, 21:44

"I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem."

So are you saying the altitude they were at had nothing to do with the crash?

FLIGHTFREAK · February 26th, 2005, 21:58

It was from the actual recordings, the video link lets you hear them

Kingairer · February 27th, 2005, 16:44

[ QUOTE ]
"I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem."

So are you saying the altitude they were at had nothing to do with the crash?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, No, he was just reminding us that he is chuck yeager.

Doug Taylor · February 27th, 2005, 17:09

People beat down his door demanding his services!

Maximillian_Jenius · February 27th, 2005, 23:03

Good one Doug good one!

-Matthew

Mr_Creepy · February 28th, 2005, 07:21

[ QUOTE ]
People beat down his door demanding his services!

[/ QUOTE ]

Happened again today. "John can you fly this trip to Naples for us? There are NO OTHER PILOTS AVAILABLE. If you don't do it we have to cancel the trip."

I'm not trying to say there's a pilot shortage, but the insurance companies have made it nearly impossible to hire a C-421 pilot from "off the street" so to speak. Unless they have current manufacturer's training we can count on spending $3500 to get them trained at Simcom.

BuckTurgidson · February 28th, 2005, 08:52

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People beat down his door demanding his services!

[/ QUOTE ]

Happened again today. "John can you fly this trip to Naples for us? There are NO OTHER PILOTS AVAILABLE. If you don't do it we have to cancel the trip."

I'm not trying to say there's a pilot shortage, but the insurance companies have made it nearly impossible to hire a C-421 pilot from "off the street" so to speak. Unless they have current manufacturer's training we can count on spending $3500 to get them trained at Simcom.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll attest to that. When I was working for an aircraft dealer we had the hardest time finding ferry pilots that were "qualified" according to the insurance company. It was hell trying to get a C414 moved to the paint shop.

Even if you had the money to buy one, and were willing to pay for the fuel, getting insured on a twin, or even a high-perf. retract single isn't easy. That was always the second question that we asked potential buyers (right after "do you have financing?

)

It is one of the reasons that Cherokee 6's are so popular. Relatively new pilots can get insured on them.

Mr_Creepy · February 28th, 2005, 09:07

Yes that's a great thing about the fixed gear Cherokee Sixes.

Retractible is another story. We have a Lance in CAP Flying and the insurance company wants 25 hours in type (!)

Thankfully, today's flight cancelled, so I don't have to sit around a pilot lounge in Naples till 830 tonight!

Doug Taylor · February 28th, 2005, 11:40

(start the music)

"John, my cat boxes are filthy, we NEED you man! This is only a job YOU can do! Don't bother with the bat suit! Just get over!"

tonyw · February 28th, 2005, 11:46

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't mean to be a downer, Peaknuckle.....I just found it disturbing that the news would even say...."they were having fun".

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't get the idea that the media is trying to push here. It is very possible to have fun and be responsible at the same time!

Didn't we all, from a pre-solo student pilot to a 100,000 hour ATP, all get into flying because we think it is fun?

Doug Taylor · February 28th, 2005, 11:56

[ QUOTE ]

Didn't we all, from a pre-solo student pilot to a 100,000 hour ATP, all get into flying because we think it is fun?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but here's a quote from a website that Kristie showed me yesterday:

[ QUOTE ]
They are well traveled, wear sexy uniforms, have nerves of steel (they are screened for it), healthy (rigorous yearly medical exams), will fly you to an opera on a far away continent, are not afraid to steer 400 tons of tube at the speed of sound, AND you don't have to face him at breakfast every morning. You get nice presents from all over the world and your friends will envy you...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr_Creepy · February 28th, 2005, 13:20

[ QUOTE ]
(start the music)

"John, my cat boxes are filthy, we NEED you man! This is only a job YOU can do! Don't bother with the bat suit! Just get over!"

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL You sound like my wife when Gracie has a poopie diaper

Seriously Doug, I wish there were a couple of other pilots around Orlando who were C-421 qualified. Really. I do.

DE727UPS · February 28th, 2005, 13:30

Yeah. We get into flying because it's fun.

I'm pretty reserved about what I'll say over an ATC freq, though. How would you like it if you were on short final and ATC put a departure on the runway. You question the call and they say "it'll work out, we're just having a little fun"

I don't see any reason to EVER make a comment on an ATC freq (you know it's all recorded, right?) that says "we are just having a little fun, here". You are just sticking your neck out to extra criticism if something bad happens. Let's say your flying a jet and ATC points out the airport wanting you to do a visual. Don't call the airport and say "this is gonna be fun". Just not appropriate....

When ATC questioned the PCL crew going to 410, they simply should have said "we're light today".

tonyw · February 28th, 2005, 14:18

You're right, there's a world of difference between those of us who fly around without having to worry about being recorded and guys like you with the recorders going.

Me, I can say "hold my beer and watch this" and if I turn the airplane into a smoking pile of aluminum, nobody knows. Not that I'd do that, but you get the idea.

You guys can't fart without it being on a tape somewhere.

E_Dawg · February 28th, 2005, 14:50

Everything you say on the radio is recorded.

Doug Taylor · February 28th, 2005, 14:55

There's even a way of determine which aircraft made what transmission as well.

mtsu_av8er · February 28th, 2005, 16:15

[ QUOTE ]
There's even a way of determine which aircraft made what transmission as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there really?

February 26th, 2005, 05:54	#1
JEP Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 10,893 Blog Entries: 1	Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Pinnacle Crash Recordings

February 26th, 2005, 06:09	#2
Baronman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NEWARK Posts: 1,078	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings I love how they insinuate that the pilots were acting irresponsibly. Why are they bashing these guys when they were flying the plane within it's enevelope?! The title of the piece could have just as easily been, "Canadian aircraft manufacturer certifies aircraft beyond it's capabilities." or, "Canada, friendly neighbor to the north or designer of faulty aircraft." grrrrr

February 26th, 2005, 07:17	#3
TallBoy85 Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 194	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] "Canada, friendly neighbor to the north or designer of faulty aircraft." [/ QUOTE ] Given the domestic safety record of the CRJ I would watch what you say in the company of CRJ pilots. Unfortunately we live in a world with sensationalist media and pilot bashing is what we get. No one is willing to invest the time in researching flameouts, compressor stalls...any random freak occurence that could cause a dual flame out at FL410...so its the pilots fault, even though they were operating WITHIN (not at) their specified limitations. But bottom line, people died. Get over what the media says, get over what Canadair or the NTSB says...stuff happens. We need to do our best to remember those gentlemen as they were...our pilot brothers.

February 26th, 2005, 07:21	#4
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings What an incredibly irresponsible piece of journalism. I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem.

February 26th, 2005, 10:10	#5
Baronman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NEWARK Posts: 1,078	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] Given the domestic safety record of the CRJ I would watch what you say in the company of CRJ pilots. [/ QUOTE ] Why, might I hurt their feelings?

February 26th, 2005, 12:26	#6
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,223 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Unfortuantely, those stories sell and always have. Just because a plane has been to 410, does necessarily mean it can always make 410 because of atmospoheric conditions (ISA) , aircraft weight and the amount of "protection" you'd like at altitude (1.3g, 1.5g, etc). Don't confuse 'service ceiling' as a solid number that the aircraft can attain safely each time.

February 26th, 2005, 13:59	#7
PeanuckleCRJ Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Where everybody's somebody Posts: 609	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings It was ISA +12 that night. I've been up to 39 before... I know of a number of guys that have been up to 41. Reading that just killed my mood today.. God bless Jesse and Peter. I aboloutely cannot stand the news media.

February 26th, 2005, 19:29	#8
JEP Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 10,893 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] It was ISA +12 that night. I've been up to 39 before... I know of a number of guys that have been up to 41. Reading that just killed my mood today.. God bless Jesse and Peter. I aboloutely cannot stand the news media. [/ QUOTE ] Didn't mean to be a downer, Peaknuckle.....I just found it disturbing that the news would even say...."they were having fun". I hope that what they printed was from the actual recordins and not something they just heard.

February 26th, 2005, 21:44	#9
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,547	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings "I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem." So are you saying the altitude they were at had nothing to do with the crash?

February 26th, 2005, 21:58	#10
FLIGHTFREAK Newbie Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: BRUNSWICK GA USA Posts: 17	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings It was from the actual recordings, the video link lets you hear them

February 27th, 2005, 16:44	#11
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,190	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] "I've had CRJs to 410 many, many times. Never had a problem." So are you saying the altitude they were at had nothing to do with the crash? [/ QUOTE ] No, No, he was just reminding us that he is chuck yeager.

February 27th, 2005, 17:09	#12
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,223 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings People beat down his door demanding his services!

February 27th, 2005, 23:03	#13
Maximillian_Jenius Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA Posts: 19,032	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Good one Doug good one! -Matthew

February 28th, 2005, 07:21	#14
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] People beat down his door demanding his services! [/ QUOTE ] Happened again today. "John can you fly this trip to Naples for us? There are NO OTHER PILOTS AVAILABLE. If you don't do it we have to cancel the trip." I'm not trying to say there's a pilot shortage, but the insurance companies have made it nearly impossible to hire a C-421 pilot from "off the street" so to speak. Unless they have current manufacturer's training we can count on spending $3500 to get them trained at Simcom.

February 28th, 2005, 08:52	#15
BuckTurgidson Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 69	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] People beat down his door demanding his services! [/ QUOTE ] Happened again today. "John can you fly this trip to Naples for us? There are NO OTHER PILOTS AVAILABLE. If you don't do it we have to cancel the trip." I'm not trying to say there's a pilot shortage, but the insurance companies have made it nearly impossible to hire a C-421 pilot from "off the street" so to speak. Unless they have current manufacturer's training we can count on spending $3500 to get them trained at Simcom. [/ QUOTE ] I'll attest to that. When I was working for an aircraft dealer we had the hardest time finding ferry pilots that were "qualified" according to the insurance company. It was hell trying to get a C414 moved to the paint shop. Even if you had the money to buy one, and were willing to pay for the fuel, getting insured on a twin, or even a high-perf. retract single isn't easy. That was always the second question that we asked potential buyers (right after "do you have financing? ) It is one of the reasons that Cherokee 6's are so popular. Relatively new pilots can get insured on them.

February 28th, 2005, 09:07	#16
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Yes that's a great thing about the fixed gear Cherokee Sixes. Retractible is another story. We have a Lance in CAP Flying and the insurance company wants 25 hours in type (!) Thankfully, today's flight cancelled, so I don't have to sit around a pilot lounge in Naples till 830 tonight!

February 28th, 2005, 11:40	#17
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,223 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings (start the music) "John, my cat boxes are filthy, we NEED you man! This is only a job YOU can do! Don't bother with the bat suit! Just get over!"

February 28th, 2005, 11:46	#18
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,629	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] Didn't mean to be a downer, Peaknuckle.....I just found it disturbing that the news would even say...."they were having fun". [/ QUOTE ] I just don't get the idea that the media is trying to push here. It is very possible to have fun and be responsible at the same time! Didn't we all, from a pre-solo student pilot to a 100,000 hour ATP, all get into flying because we think it is fun?

February 28th, 2005, 11:56	#19
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,223 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] Didn't we all, from a pre-solo student pilot to a 100,000 hour ATP, all get into flying because we think it is fun? [/ QUOTE ] No, but here's a quote from a website that Kristie showed me yesterday: [ QUOTE ] They are well traveled, wear sexy uniforms, have nerves of steel (they are screened for it), healthy (rigorous yearly medical exams), will fly you to an opera on a far away continent, are not afraid to steer 400 tons of tube at the speed of sound, AND you don't have to face him at breakfast every morning. You get nice presents from all over the world and your friends will envy you... [/ QUOTE ]

February 28th, 2005, 13:20	#20
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] (start the music) "John, my cat boxes are filthy, we NEED you man! This is only a job YOU can do! Don't bother with the bat suit! Just get over!" [/ QUOTE ] LOL You sound like my wife when Gracie has a poopie diaper Seriously Doug, I wish there were a couple of other pilots around Orlando who were C-421 qualified. Really. I do.

February 28th, 2005, 13:30	#21
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,547	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Yeah. We get into flying because it's fun. I'm pretty reserved about what I'll say over an ATC freq, though. How would you like it if you were on short final and ATC put a departure on the runway. You question the call and they say "it'll work out, we're just having a little fun" I don't see any reason to EVER make a comment on an ATC freq (you know it's all recorded, right?) that says "we are just having a little fun, here". You are just sticking your neck out to extra criticism if something bad happens. Let's say your flying a jet and ATC points out the airport wanting you to do a visual. Don't call the airport and say "this is gonna be fun". Just not appropriate.... When ATC questioned the PCL crew going to 410, they simply should have said "we're light today".

February 28th, 2005, 14:18	#22
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,629	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings You're right, there's a world of difference between those of us who fly around without having to worry about being recorded and guys like you with the recorders going. Me, I can say "hold my beer and watch this" and if I turn the airplane into a smoking pile of aluminum, nobody knows. Not that I'd do that, but you get the idea. You guys can't fart without it being on a tape somewhere.

February 28th, 2005, 14:50	#23
E_Dawg Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: chicago Posts: 4,237	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings Everything you say on the radio is recorded.

February 28th, 2005, 14:55	#24
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,223 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings There's even a way of determine which aircraft made what transmission as well.

February 28th, 2005, 16:15	#25
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,567	Re: Mpls TV Stations\' Rpt. - Pinnacle Crash Recordings [ QUOTE ] There's even a way of determine which aircraft made what transmission as well. [/ QUOTE ] Is there really?

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