RAT on a cropduster?

Timbuff10 · February 22nd, 2005, 13:16

For you cropduster/daredevils out there in the know...

Check out the link.
Crop Duster

On the photo you can see that there is another small prop turning on the underside of the aircraft. I am assuming this is something that powers the spraying equipment? Anyone ever seen that before?

Grabo172 · February 22nd, 2005, 13:20

You would be correct, that's a little generator, or alternator under there...

TallFlyer · February 22nd, 2005, 14:35

Man, I thought fir sure that was a multi-engine aircraft.....

Grabo172 · February 22nd, 2005, 14:44

Upon further look, it may also be a pump...

FlyNavy · February 22nd, 2005, 21:19

Maybe it's like the sirens the Luftwaffwe used to put on Stukas! Shoo the cows away?

It's a bovine Blitzkreig!

mtsu_av8er · February 22nd, 2005, 21:39

[ QUOTE ]
Man, I thought fir sure that was a multi-engine aircraft.....

[/ QUOTE ]

the Flare-Motor!!

BobDDuck · February 22nd, 2005, 22:37

Hey, I almost had a mid air with that plane about a week ago. We were coming out of an emergency decsent about 1500 agl and when the student pulled up there was just this yellow blur coming up in front of us. Yowza. Didn't really notice the other prop/RAT thing but I guess it was there.

Ethan

Timbuff10 · February 23rd, 2005, 00:24

That thing is a fairly large airplane too for a single. I think the largest single prop plane ever built is very similar to that thing.

I like the addition of the helmet the guy is wearing... Funny thing is, he probably needs it in that business!

USMCmech · February 23rd, 2005, 02:11

[ QUOTE ]
That thing is a fairly large airplane too for a single. I think the largest single prop plane ever built is very similar to that thing.

I like the addition of the helmet the guy is wearing... Funny thing is, he probably needs it in that business!

[/ QUOTE ]

Most cropdusters wear full flight suits and helmets. Flying that low dosen't allow any margin of safety if something goes wrong.

Most Ag planes aren't that big. That was an Ayers thrbo thrush I belive. It's about the size of a Baron, but it looks bigger on the ramp because it's a taildrager.

The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/776855/L/

MikeD · February 23rd, 2005, 02:29

[ QUOTE ]
[The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the AN-2 bigger overall than the A-1 Skyraider? Or are they close?

TallFlyer · February 23rd, 2005, 04:46

[ QUOTE ]
The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's one permanently parked here at Merrill Field. Or at least I haven't seen it move since I got here.

ananoman · February 24th, 2005, 00:55

The Skyraider was big, but the AN-2 looks even bigger when you see one on the ramp. They hold something like 12 people. You can open a door on the side and walk up an isle to the 'flight deck'. Pretty impressive, even if they only go about 110 knots.

Someone who flew the F-105 was telling me that it was the 'biggest' single ever produced. They had a max takeoff weight of around 50,000 lbs.

For shear size the Global Flyer may be the 'biggest' but I don't know what the takeoff weight is.

ROFCIBC · February 25th, 2005, 09:22

[ QUOTE ]
The Skyraider was big, but the AN-2 looks even bigger when you see one on the ramp. They hold something like 12 people. You can open a door on the side and walk up an isle to the 'flight deck'. Pretty impressive, even if they only go about 110 knots.

Someone who flew the F-105 was telling me that it was the 'biggest' single ever produced. They had a max takeoff weight of around 50,000 lbs.

For shear size the Global Flyer may be the 'biggest' but I don't know what the takeoff weight is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd go with the Thud. First time I ever saw one of them up close and personal it was huge! Definitely bigger than the A1, even the A1E.

I remember refueling them in the late 60s when they were flying bombing missions up North out of Korat, and Takali. They carried six 750s on that centerline station. As they maneuvered around the bombs would be shaking around and banging into each other. I always wondered if the made a noise that could be heard in the cockpit. Funny how the mind goes back and picks up on stuff that should be totally irrelevant!

The D models was one of the few airplanes that had both a receptacle for the boom and a probe for the basket.

They took off using afterburner, water injection, and all of the available runway. Kind of like the KC135, except we didn't have afterburner.

We had a small compartment full of rocks just forward of the nose gear. When you reached rotation speed the compartment opened dropping the rocks on the runway. When the airplane felt itself running over them it figured it was out of runway, and FLEW!

Speaking of irrelevant stuff…another minuscule remembrance.

When I first went to Utapao, which is were the tankers flew most of the missions out of, I found the rendezvous were run by GCI controllers. And they used “port” and “starboard” for turn directions. Being a resourceful First Lieutenant (waaaayyyyy past a dumb ‘ol Second Loouie!) I took a grease pencil and wrote “port” on the left side of the windshield, and “starboard” on the right! Must have been some other idiots over there…pretty soon most of the airplanes had similar “direction reminders”!

Ah yes, life was good…except as a First Lieutenant you couldn’t fall back on the excuse of being just a “dumb second lieutenant” any more. You were expected to actually KNOW something! While still good, life was becoming more complex!

Rugby51 · February 25th, 2005, 11:25

[ QUOTE ]

Is the AN-2 bigger overall than the A-1 Skyraider? Or are they close?

[/ QUOTE ]

...and the winner is.....

The A-1, with about 3,000 hp and a max TO of 25,000#

second place goes to...

The AN-2, 1,000hp and a svelte 12,125# max TO....

Fly in to Tillamook (S47) and see the AM-1 mauler. First flight shortly after close of WWII. It could do just about what a B-17 could do, but faster, and with a crew of 1!

racemey · March 1st, 2005, 16:56

That mini propeller is a drive for the spray pump. When not in use, the blades are feathered. To start spraying, the pilot has a lever in the cockpit to un-feather the blades, which then spin and drive the spray pump. Just found that out today while visiting our cropduster service.

Propilot · March 1st, 2005, 21:51

Second place is not the AN-2

The Agcat 800 series has 1600 shaft horsepower turbine (sea level, std conditions) with a max take off weight of 18,000lbs.

Cant wait for that one ;]

---wannabe agpilot

ananoman · March 1st, 2005, 22:19

Alot depends on what you define as 'biggest'. Is it size or weight? The Skyraider is quite large, but I think the AN-2 is 'bigger' in size. It is similar with the cropdusters. They are heavier than alot of the smaller business jets, but they are not as 'huge' as their weight would have you believe.

agcatman · May 14th, 2005, 09:23

[ QUOTE ]
For you cropduster/daredevils out there in the know...

Check out the link.
Crop Duster

On the photo you can see that there is another small prop turning on the underside of the aircraft. I am assuming this is something that powers the spraying equipment? Anyone ever seen that before?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing like resurrecting long-dead posts.

Anywho, yes, you are assuming correctly. That small prop is the pump fan and provides the power for pumping the liquid to the boom and nozzles. It's quite common on almost all crop dusting airplanes although there are a few (and all ag spraying helicopters of which I am aware) that use a hydraulic pump powered by an accessory drive on the engine to pump the liquid. But the fan is much more common. It is either unbraked or unfeathered (depending on the type) after takeoff and runs pretty much continously during the flight until the job is done. There is a lever in the cockpit which controls the boom valve and turns the spray on and off. (It's called the 'money handle' and for good reason. If you ain't working that handle you ain't making no money.

) When the valve to the booms is turned off (stopping the spray), the pump pressure is diverted back into the hopper to maintain agitation helping to keep the chemicals properly mixed.

BTW, my main plane is almost exactly the same as the linked picture you have noted. I love mine, it's a rocket!

agcatman · May 14th, 2005, 10:03

[ QUOTE ]
Second place is not the AN-2

The Agcat 800 series has 1600 shaft horsepower turbine (sea level, std conditions) with a max take off weight of 18,000lbs.

Cant wait for that one ;]

---wannabe agpilot

[/ QUOTE ]

Close, but no cigar.

It's actually an Air Tractor 802, not an Ag-Cat. If memory serves, the AT-802 is capable of the highest gross weight of any single-engine airplane in production today. And it's interesting to note that not only is it certified for TAKEOFF at max gross (18,000 pounds as noted) but it is also certified for LANDING with that load! (Personally, I think I'd be drawed up REAL tight having to land at that weight!

)

It's also interesting to note that it is the only airplane in the US fleet which can gross over 12,500 pounds yet does not require a type rating. The owner of the Air Tractor Corporation, Leland Snow, was successful in his attempt to get the Feds to waive the type rating requirement for the aircraft, and that was a pretty big deal.

SteveC · May 14th, 2005, 12:18

Welcome back!

Doug Taylor · May 14th, 2005, 12:39

Hey! Welcome back!

Where the HECK have you been?

agcatman · May 21st, 2005, 08:37

[ QUOTE ]
Hey! Welcome back!

Where the HECK have you been?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, everywhere but the electric chair?

Actually I've been hibernating. But the sudden appearance, growth and bloom of all the lovely green flora, these harbingers of spring, have bid me arise.

So now I'm going to kill them.

Oh man, and heaven help a bug....

Seriously, nice to be here. It's good to see everyone seems to be doing okay.

February 22nd, 2005, 13:16	#1
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,234	RAT on a cropduster? For you cropduster/daredevils out there in the know... Check out the link. Crop Duster On the photo you can see that there is another small prop turning on the underside of the aircraft. I am assuming this is something that powers the spraying equipment? Anyone ever seen that before?

February 22nd, 2005, 13:20	#2
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,271	Re: RAT on a cropduster? You would be correct, that's a little generator, or alternator under there...

February 22nd, 2005, 14:35	#3
TallFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 469	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Man, I thought fir sure that was a multi-engine aircraft.....

February 22nd, 2005, 14:44	#4
Grabo172 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peterborough, NH Posts: 1,271	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Upon further look, it may also be a pump...

February 22nd, 2005, 21:19	#5
FlyNavy Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 255	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Maybe it's like the sirens the Luftwaffwe used to put on Stukas! Shoo the cows away? It's a bovine Blitzkreig!

February 22nd, 2005, 21:39	#6
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] Man, I thought fir sure that was a multi-engine aircraft..... [/ QUOTE ] the Flare-Motor!!

February 22nd, 2005, 22:37	#7
BobDDuck Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Left Seat Posts: 5,559	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Hey, I almost had a mid air with that plane about a week ago. We were coming out of an emergency decsent about 1500 agl and when the student pulled up there was just this yellow blur coming up in front of us. Yowza. Didn't really notice the other prop/RAT thing but I guess it was there. Ethan

February 23rd, 2005, 00:24	#8
Timbuff10 Old Skool Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Coloradan in Orange County, CA Posts: 3,234	Re: RAT on a cropduster? That thing is a fairly large airplane too for a single. I think the largest single prop plane ever built is very similar to that thing. I like the addition of the helmet the guy is wearing... Funny thing is, he probably needs it in that business!

February 23rd, 2005, 02:11	#9
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,623	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] That thing is a fairly large airplane too for a single. I think the largest single prop plane ever built is very similar to that thing. I like the addition of the helmet the guy is wearing... Funny thing is, he probably needs it in that business! [/ QUOTE ] Most cropdusters wear full flight suits and helmets. Flying that low dosen't allow any margin of safety if something goes wrong. Most Ag planes aren't that big. That was an Ayers thrbo thrush I belive. It's about the size of a Baron, but it looks bigger on the ramp because it's a taildrager. The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/776855/L/

February 23rd, 2005, 02:29	#10
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] [The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America. [/ QUOTE ] Is the AN-2 bigger overall than the A-1 Skyraider? Or are they close?

February 23rd, 2005, 04:46	#11
TallFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 469	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] The largest single I know of is the AN-2 Colt. A monstrous biplane built in Russia. It has a large radial engine, and is about 3/4 the size of a DC-3. There are a few flying here in America. [/ QUOTE ] There's one permanently parked here at Merrill Field. Or at least I haven't seen it move since I got here.

February 24th, 2005, 00:55	#12
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: RAT on a cropduster? The Skyraider was big, but the AN-2 looks even bigger when you see one on the ramp. They hold something like 12 people. You can open a door on the side and walk up an isle to the 'flight deck'. Pretty impressive, even if they only go about 110 knots. Someone who flew the F-105 was telling me that it was the 'biggest' single ever produced. They had a max takeoff weight of around 50,000 lbs. For shear size the Global Flyer may be the 'biggest' but I don't know what the takeoff weight is.

February 25th, 2005, 09:22	#13
ROFCIBC Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bossier City, Louisiana Posts: 591	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] The Skyraider was big, but the AN-2 looks even bigger when you see one on the ramp. They hold something like 12 people. You can open a door on the side and walk up an isle to the 'flight deck'. Pretty impressive, even if they only go about 110 knots. Someone who flew the F-105 was telling me that it was the 'biggest' single ever produced. They had a max takeoff weight of around 50,000 lbs. For shear size the Global Flyer may be the 'biggest' but I don't know what the takeoff weight is. [/ QUOTE ] I'd go with the Thud. First time I ever saw one of them up close and personal it was huge! Definitely bigger than the A1, even the A1E. I remember refueling them in the late 60s when they were flying bombing missions up North out of Korat, and Takali. They carried six 750s on that centerline station. As they maneuvered around the bombs would be shaking around and banging into each other. I always wondered if the made a noise that could be heard in the cockpit. Funny how the mind goes back and picks up on stuff that should be totally irrelevant! The D models was one of the few airplanes that had both a receptacle for the boom and a probe for the basket. They took off using afterburner, water injection, and all of the available runway. Kind of like the KC135, except we didn't have afterburner. We had a small compartment full of rocks just forward of the nose gear. When you reached rotation speed the compartment opened dropping the rocks on the runway. When the airplane felt itself running over them it figured it was out of runway, and FLEW! Speaking of irrelevant stuff…another minuscule remembrance. When I first went to Utapao, which is were the tankers flew most of the missions out of, I found the rendezvous were run by GCI controllers. And they used “port” and “starboard” for turn directions. Being a resourceful First Lieutenant (waaaayyyyy past a dumb ‘ol Second Loouie!) I took a grease pencil and wrote “port” on the left side of the windshield, and “starboard” on the right! Must have been some other idiots over there…pretty soon most of the airplanes had similar “direction reminders”! Ah yes, life was good…except as a First Lieutenant you couldn’t fall back on the excuse of being just a “dumb second lieutenant” any more. You were expected to actually KNOW something! While still good, life was becoming more complex!

February 25th, 2005, 11:25	#14
Rugby51 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The fix formerly known as CHECO Posts: 67	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] Is the AN-2 bigger overall than the A-1 Skyraider? Or are they close? [/ QUOTE ] ...and the winner is..... The A-1, with about 3,000 hp and a max TO of 25,000# second place goes to... The AN-2, 1,000hp and a svelte 12,125# max TO.... Fly in to Tillamook (S47) and see the AM-1 mauler. First flight shortly after close of WWII. It could do just about what a B-17 could do, but faster, and with a crew of 1!

March 1st, 2005, 16:56	#15
racemey Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 88	Re: RAT on a cropduster? That mini propeller is a drive for the spray pump. When not in use, the blades are feathered. To start spraying, the pilot has a lever in the cockpit to un-feather the blades, which then spin and drive the spray pump. Just found that out today while visiting our cropduster service.

March 1st, 2005, 21:51	#16
Propilot Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NE United States Posts: 311	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Second place is not the AN-2 The Agcat 800 series has 1600 shaft horsepower turbine (sea level, std conditions) with a max take off weight of 18,000lbs. Cant wait for that one ;] ---wannabe agpilot

March 1st, 2005, 22:19	#17
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Alot depends on what you define as 'biggest'. Is it size or weight? The Skyraider is quite large, but I think the AN-2 is 'bigger' in size. It is similar with the cropdusters. They are heavier than alot of the smaller business jets, but they are not as 'huge' as their weight would have you believe.

May 14th, 2005, 09:23	#18
agcatman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 182	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] For you cropduster/daredevils out there in the know... Check out the link. Crop Duster On the photo you can see that there is another small prop turning on the underside of the aircraft. I am assuming this is something that powers the spraying equipment? Anyone ever seen that before? [/ QUOTE ] Nothing like resurrecting long-dead posts. Anywho, yes, you are assuming correctly. That small prop is the pump fan and provides the power for pumping the liquid to the boom and nozzles. It's quite common on almost all crop dusting airplanes although there are a few (and all ag spraying helicopters of which I am aware) that use a hydraulic pump powered by an accessory drive on the engine to pump the liquid. But the fan is much more common. It is either unbraked or unfeathered (depending on the type) after takeoff and runs pretty much continously during the flight until the job is done. There is a lever in the cockpit which controls the boom valve and turns the spray on and off. (It's called the 'money handle' and for good reason. If you ain't working that handle you ain't making no money.) When the valve to the booms is turned off (stopping the spray), the pump pressure is diverted back into the hopper to maintain agitation helping to keep the chemicals properly mixed. BTW, my main plane is almost exactly the same as the linked picture you have noted. I love mine, it's a rocket!

May 14th, 2005, 10:03	#19
agcatman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 182	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] Second place is not the AN-2 The Agcat 800 series has 1600 shaft horsepower turbine (sea level, std conditions) with a max take off weight of 18,000lbs. Cant wait for that one ;] ---wannabe agpilot [/ QUOTE ] Close, but no cigar. It's actually an Air Tractor 802, not an Ag-Cat. If memory serves, the AT-802 is capable of the highest gross weight of any single-engine airplane in production today. And it's interesting to note that not only is it certified for TAKEOFF at max gross (18,000 pounds as noted) but it is also certified for LANDING with that load! (Personally, I think I'd be drawed up REAL tight having to land at that weight! ) It's also interesting to note that it is the only airplane in the US fleet which can gross over 12,500 pounds yet does not require a type rating. The owner of the Air Tractor Corporation, Leland Snow, was successful in his attempt to get the Feds to waive the type rating requirement for the aircraft, and that was a pretty big deal.

May 14th, 2005, 12:18	#20
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,498	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Welcome back!

May 14th, 2005, 12:39	#21
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: RAT on a cropduster? Hey! Welcome back! Where the HECK have you been?

May 21st, 2005, 08:37	#22
agcatman Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 182	Re: RAT on a cropduster? [ QUOTE ] Hey! Welcome back! Where the HECK have you been? [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, everywhere but the electric chair? Actually I've been hibernating. But the sudden appearance, growth and bloom of all the lovely green flora, these harbingers of spring, have bid me arise. So now I'm going to kill them. Oh man, and heaven help a bug.... Seriously, nice to be here. It's good to see everyone seems to be doing okay.

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