Another Buy to Fly Program

Jazzyjazz · February 20th, 2005, 14:38

Good Day,

Below is a link to SIMCENTER's $33,000.00 B727 Jet First Officer program. The numbers look GREAT, especially when one considers that after training, a FO makes $45.00 an hour versus the below $20.00 an hour offered by regionals! Talk about "jump- starting" your career.

Please comment on this career option... Yes, I read some of the comments offered about similar programs... but THIS one is different, right??? (LOL).. no SHARKS please... (continues to LOL).

Jazz

http://www.simcenter.cc/phase2.html

eeg · February 20th, 2005, 14:39

Not again

Raskolnikov · February 20th, 2005, 15:01

If this is a B727 FO program, does that mean you pay to cut in front of the FE?

I'm beginning to smell something...

Doug Taylor · February 20th, 2005, 16:03

Sucky suck.

Raskolnikov · February 20th, 2005, 16:07

Well put Doug. I agree with all of it.

FlyNavy · February 20th, 2005, 16:40

So what's the catch? Are the 1000 hours spent flying contract freight or something?

USMCmech · February 20th, 2005, 16:44

[ QUOTE ]
OPTION #1
Flight Engineer with First Officer Upgrade
Students enrolled in the Flight Engineer/First Officer program will complete in addition to a Jet Introduction course the complete Initial/Pilot/Flight Engineer Prt 121 Coure and receive a Flight Engineer Certificate with Turbojet Rating. After 6 months of flying(approximately 500 hours) as a Flight Engineer on the B727, they will return to school to complete the First Officer Upgrade Training. After successful completion of the Upgrade training the intern will be guaranteed an additional 500 hours as a First Officer on the B727.

[/ QUOTE ]

33K for 500 hrs of FE time,

Then IF and only if you pass their "upgrade training" you get another 500 hrs of FO time.

[ QUOTE ]
OPTION #2
Flight Engineer
Students enrolled in the Flight Engineer/First Officer program will complete in addition to a Jet Introduction course the complete Initial/Pilot/Flight Engineer Part 121 Course and receive a Flight Engineer Certificate with Turbojet Rating. Under this program the intern is guaranteed 200 flight hours as a flight engineer only with no upgrade

[/ QUOTE ]

15K for a FE liscense and 200 hrs YGTBSM!

I've seen 737 types advertised for 5K.

montanapilot · February 20th, 2005, 17:39

why do some people wanna become whorres so badly?

EatSleepFly · February 20th, 2005, 17:44

Beats me, but I am uber sick of sorting through threads about PFT, SIC "Programs", headsets, and flight schools. It's getting way old. Geeeeeez....

kellwolf · February 20th, 2005, 18:53

New week, new PFT/PFJ/"what does everyone think of this rip off program" thread.

Doug Taylor · February 20th, 2005, 19:12

Besides, 500 hours of FE time is entirely useless. In fact, I'm not even sure if it's legally 'total time' because you're not flying whatsoever.

DE727UPS · February 20th, 2005, 23:12

I wish I knew what scumbag freight operation was selling the honorable 727 right seat in this program.

This is PFJ...just like Gulfstream. It's not a good thing.

WIPilot · February 21st, 2005, 02:32

[ QUOTE ]
Beats me, but I am uber sick of sorting through threads about PFT, SIC "Programs", headsets, and flight schools. It's getting way old. Geeeeeez....

[/ QUOTE ]

and the sad part is...with all of the programs poping up left and right that means that people are actualy paying for it!

USMCmech · February 21st, 2005, 02:43

I looked at their site some more, and found that they will train you for a 727 type for 10,600$.

Take the extra 23,000 and buy your self a POS C-150.

Doug Taylor · February 21st, 2005, 10:07

I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning.

WIPilot · February 21st, 2005, 10:23

[ QUOTE ]
I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe jetcareers should start a business? =P You could probably retire early hehe

mtsu_av8er · February 21st, 2005, 11:42

[ QUOTE ]
I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this, Man!!!

And for good reason - while you guys are flying around the pattern or doing your 40th steep turn for the day in a 152 with a student, doing things that no airline will ever care about, I'm going to be learning about an A-320, flying for a real airline, getting real experience. After I have my 100 hours of real airline time, we'll see who the airlines hire. . .

[/dumb-a$$ comments...]

Doug Taylor · February 21st, 2005, 11:47

Lloyd, you're not right in the head, man!

"My Jet Blue Prep brings all the boys to the yard, damn right, it's better than yours! I could teach you, but I'd have to charge!"

John2375 · February 21st, 2005, 12:44

You're right- it's been just about a month exactly and here we go again......

What it doesn't say is what happens if you flunk the checkride: When I inquired into this program 2 years ago, it was only a 200-hour guarantee in either the FE or FO slot, and they charged $6000 for the FE program and $12,000 for the FO program, but there were 3 stages to it, and if you were released from the program by their choice or yours at anyone of those stages, you were refunded a partial amount of the cost, but once you went for the 121 checkride, you were fully committed to pay 100% and if you didnt' pass...well that really sucks for you and your career.

I agree this is a ripoff...

Doug Taylor · February 21st, 2005, 12:53

I'm in a Claritan brain haze so this might not come out right. So excuse me in advance! This isn't targeted at you but I'm having one of those 'stream of consciousness' moments.

But it's not a matter that the candidate flew a 727 for 500 or so hours. It's really a matter of the candidate doing whatever he did in order to have a 727 operator trust, hire, train and pay him.

Kristie has about an hour of L1011-500 level-D simulator time. Now, if she ran out and got her CSMEL-I, would she have even the slightest edge over any other equally experienced job candidate without the L1011 experience? Nope!

Jazzyjazz · February 21st, 2005, 14:35

Good Day,

I have not seen anyone comment on the POSITIVE side of this program.
One, a pilot could accelerate his career path IMMENSELY by enrolling in such a program... especially if he gets a job at the end of his training. It's a known fact that a lot of the good jobs go to someone who knows someone... I have seen this to be the case in the limited market here in Reno, NV.
Also, I have met several pilots for NORTHWEST Airlink who went through Gulfstream's Academy and landed jobs straight out of their program. Heck these guys were barely growing chin hair... aged 21 to 23 years. How else could these ambitious (with well heeled parents attain) success so quickly? Are we to begrudge them their good fortune? I say NAY! More power to them! The airlines were waiting in LINE to recruit these guys! The airlines USE these graduates and respect them. Why can't we?
In one year, these graduates achieve what some of us with YEARS of flying have yet to achieve... that JET job! When I was in the military... We did WHATEVER we had to do to get the job done! What is wrong with shortening that career path which is sometimes so convoluted that some of us NEVER make it? I say GREASE those Wheels with cash if it will take you to your desired goals. WHERE is it written that we must chug along through low paying, odd hours, flying old aircraft in order to gain experience for a job that MAY never come? And what about PAY? A graduate STARTS at $45.00 an hour versus sub $20.00 an hour wages flying for a regional. Look how LONG it will take that regional pilot to hit this payscale! Any monies invested in PFT will be recovered in the first year and then it is ALL gravy after that. I am a 47 year old career changer and so I am used to getting a lot more that $20.00 dollars an hour... I don't have 20 years to "work my way up" from $20.00 an hour.
Last comment, I notice that a lot of these comments come from Professional PILOTS who have already achieved the dream... Heartfelt Congratulations! However, It's not so easy looking UP from the bottom to disallow ANY option, including PFT, to advance one's ambitions in this career field. A wise man uses ALL advantages to achieve a desired end.

Respectfully,
Jasper

tonyw · February 21st, 2005, 14:40

[ QUOTE ]
However, It's not so easy looking UP from the bottom to disallow ANY option, including PFT, to advance one's ambitions in this career field. A wise man uses ALL advantages to achieve a desired end.

[/ QUOTE ]

So. Would you scab?

You know, that might be an option from time to time. Would you do it? Get that critical jet time in there, and of course, it's a part 121 operation.

Would you scab? After all, a wise man uses all advantages.

Jazzyjazz · February 21st, 2005, 15:07

Ahhh... an honest comment.
Uhm, to scab or not to scab? That is the question. Honestly, I like to think that I would not but a lot of that decision is going to depend on whether my three children (ages 6, 8, and 12) have food on the table that week. After all "Pride goeth before the fall."
However, we are discussing PFT and not scabbing. Your choice of question and circumstance sheds a little more light on the topic... do you liken PFT to scabbing? Does it have that type of stigma attached to it? Is it more a PERSONAL feeling why this program is so disliked as opposed to the program not fulfilling its promises? Do you have a "factual" objection to enrolling in PFT programs; ie, you get robbed, etc. or simply have a "dislike" for it?

Respectfully,
Jasper

SteveC · February 21st, 2005, 15:08

Jasper, you've been around this site enough to know what kind of reception your ideas are going to receive. I can only assume that you're looking for a reaction, i.e. flame-baiting.

I thought you were above that.

Steve

Doug Taylor · February 21st, 2005, 15:21

It's very close to asking "What are the positive aspects of volunteering to get corn-holed by a sasquatch?"

Not really anything, unless of course, you're into that!

February 20th, 2005, 15:01	#3
Raskolnikov Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 272	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program If this is a B727 FO program, does that mean you pay to cut in front of the FE? I'm beginning to smell something...

February 20th, 2005, 16:03	#4
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Sucky suck.

February 20th, 2005, 16:07	#5
Raskolnikov Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oregon Posts: 272	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Well put Doug. I agree with all of it.

February 20th, 2005, 16:40	#6
FlyNavy Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 255	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program So what's the catch? Are the 1000 hours spent flying contract freight or something?

February 20th, 2005, 16:44	#7
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,623	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program [ QUOTE ] OPTION #1 Flight Engineer with First Officer Upgrade Students enrolled in the Flight Engineer/First Officer program will complete in addition to a Jet Introduction course the complete Initial/Pilot/Flight Engineer Prt 121 Coure and receive a Flight Engineer Certificate with Turbojet Rating. After 6 months of flying(approximately 500 hours) as a Flight Engineer on the B727, they will return to school to complete the First Officer Upgrade Training. After successful completion of the Upgrade training the intern will be guaranteed an additional 500 hours as a First Officer on the B727. [/ QUOTE ] 33K for 500 hrs of FE time, Then IF and only if you pass their "upgrade training" you get another 500 hrs of FO time. [ QUOTE ] OPTION #2 Flight Engineer Students enrolled in the Flight Engineer/First Officer program will complete in addition to a Jet Introduction course the complete Initial/Pilot/Flight Engineer Part 121 Course and receive a Flight Engineer Certificate with Turbojet Rating. Under this program the intern is guaranteed 200 flight hours as a flight engineer only with no upgrade [/ QUOTE ] 15K for a FE liscense and 200 hrs YGTBSM! I've seen 737 types advertised for 5K.

February 20th, 2005, 14:38	#1
Jazzyjazz Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 39	Another Buy to Fly Program Good Day, Below is a link to SIMCENTER's $33,000.00 B727 Jet First Officer program. The numbers look GREAT, especially when one considers that after training, a FO makes $45.00 an hour versus the below $20.00 an hour offered by regionals! Talk about "jump- starting" your career. Please comment on this career option... Yes, I read some of the comments offered about similar programs... but THIS one is different, right??? (LOL).. no SHARKS please... (continues to LOL). Jazz http://www.simcenter.cc/phase2.html

February 20th, 2005, 14:39	#2
eeg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Fo\' Laudydaudy, FL. Posts: 235	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Not again

February 20th, 2005, 17:39	#8
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,640	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program why do some people wanna become whorres so badly?

February 20th, 2005, 17:44	#9
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Beats me, but I am uber sick of sorting through threads about PFT, SIC "Programs", headsets, and flight schools. It's getting way old. Geeeeeez....

February 20th, 2005, 18:53	#10
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,687	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program New week, new PFT/PFJ/"what does everyone think of this rip off program" thread.

February 20th, 2005, 19:12	#11
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Besides, 500 hours of FE time is entirely useless. In fact, I'm not even sure if it's legally 'total time' because you're not flying whatsoever.

February 20th, 2005, 23:12	#12
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,521	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program I wish I knew what scumbag freight operation was selling the honorable 727 right seat in this program. This is PFJ...just like Gulfstream. It's not a good thing.

February 21st, 2005, 02:32	#13
WIPilot Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: DTW Posts: 119	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program [ QUOTE ] Beats me, but I am uber sick of sorting through threads about PFT, SIC "Programs", headsets, and flight schools. It's getting way old. Geeeeeez.... [/ QUOTE ] and the sad part is...with all of the programs poping up left and right that means that people are actualy paying for it!

February 21st, 2005, 02:43	#14
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,623	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program I looked at their site some more, and found that they will train you for a 727 type for 10,600$. Take the extra 23,000 and buy your self a POS C-150.

February 21st, 2005, 10:07	#15
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning.

February 21st, 2005, 10:23	#16
WIPilot Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: DTW Posts: 119	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program [ QUOTE ] I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe jetcareers should start a business? =P You could probably retire early hehe

February 21st, 2005, 11:42	#17
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,505	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program [ QUOTE ] I betchya if I was able to lease an A-320 sim and called the program "Jet Blue Prep Program", I'd have a line forming at the door on tuesday morning. [/ QUOTE ] And you know this, Man!!! And for good reason - while you guys are flying around the pattern or doing your 40th steep turn for the day in a 152 with a student, doing things that no airline will ever care about, I'm going to be learning about an A-320, flying for a real airline, getting real experience. After I have my 100 hours of real airline time, we'll see who the airlines hire. . . [/dumb-a$$ comments...]

February 21st, 2005, 11:47	#18
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Lloyd, you're not right in the head, man! "My Jet Blue Prep brings all the boys to the yard, damn right, it's better than yours! I could teach you, but I'd have to charge!"

February 21st, 2005, 12:44	#19
John2375 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 131	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program You're right- it's been just about a month exactly and here we go again...... What it doesn't say is what happens if you flunk the checkride: When I inquired into this program 2 years ago, it was only a 200-hour guarantee in either the FE or FO slot, and they charged $6000 for the FE program and $12,000 for the FO program, but there were 3 stages to it, and if you were released from the program by their choice or yours at anyone of those stages, you were refunded a partial amount of the cost, but once you went for the 121 checkride, you were fully committed to pay 100% and if you didnt' pass...well that really sucks for you and your career. I agree this is a ripoff...

February 21st, 2005, 12:53	#20
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program I'm in a Claritan brain haze so this might not come out right. So excuse me in advance! This isn't targeted at you but I'm having one of those 'stream of consciousness' moments. But it's not a matter that the candidate flew a 727 for 500 or so hours. It's really a matter of the candidate doing whatever he did in order to have a 727 operator trust, hire, train and pay him. Kristie has about an hour of L1011-500 level-D simulator time. Now, if she ran out and got her CSMEL-I, would she have even the slightest edge over any other equally experienced job candidate without the L1011 experience? Nope!

February 21st, 2005, 14:35	#21
Jazzyjazz Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 39	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Good Day, I have not seen anyone comment on the POSITIVE side of this program. One, a pilot could accelerate his career path IMMENSELY by enrolling in such a program... especially if he gets a job at the end of his training. It's a known fact that a lot of the good jobs go to someone who knows someone... I have seen this to be the case in the limited market here in Reno, NV. Also, I have met several pilots for NORTHWEST Airlink who went through Gulfstream's Academy and landed jobs straight out of their program. Heck these guys were barely growing chin hair... aged 21 to 23 years. How else could these ambitious (with well heeled parents attain) success so quickly? Are we to begrudge them their good fortune? I say NAY! More power to them! The airlines were waiting in LINE to recruit these guys! The airlines USE these graduates and respect them. Why can't we? In one year, these graduates achieve what some of us with YEARS of flying have yet to achieve... that JET job! When I was in the military... We did WHATEVER we had to do to get the job done! What is wrong with shortening that career path which is sometimes so convoluted that some of us NEVER make it? I say GREASE those Wheels with cash if it will take you to your desired goals. WHERE is it written that we must chug along through low paying, odd hours, flying old aircraft in order to gain experience for a job that MAY never come? And what about PAY? A graduate STARTS at $45.00 an hour versus sub $20.00 an hour wages flying for a regional. Look how LONG it will take that regional pilot to hit this payscale! Any monies invested in PFT will be recovered in the first year and then it is ALL gravy after that. I am a 47 year old career changer and so I am used to getting a lot more that $20.00 dollars an hour... I don't have 20 years to "work my way up" from $20.00 an hour. Last comment, I notice that a lot of these comments come from Professional PILOTS who have already achieved the dream... Heartfelt Congratulations! However, It's not so easy looking UP from the bottom to disallow ANY option, including PFT, to advance one's ambitions in this career field. A wise man uses ALL advantages to achieve a desired end. Respectfully, Jasper

February 21st, 2005, 14:40	#22
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,466	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program [ QUOTE ] However, It's not so easy looking UP from the bottom to disallow ANY option, including PFT, to advance one's ambitions in this career field. A wise man uses ALL advantages to achieve a desired end. [/ QUOTE ] So. Would you scab? You know, that might be an option from time to time. Would you do it? Get that critical jet time in there, and of course, it's a part 121 operation. Would you scab? After all, a wise man uses all advantages.

February 21st, 2005, 15:07	#23
Jazzyjazz Junior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 39	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Ahhh... an honest comment. Uhm, to scab or not to scab? That is the question. Honestly, I like to think that I would not but a lot of that decision is going to depend on whether my three children (ages 6, 8, and 12) have food on the table that week. After all "Pride goeth before the fall." However, we are discussing PFT and not scabbing. Your choice of question and circumstance sheds a little more light on the topic... do you liken PFT to scabbing? Does it have that type of stigma attached to it? Is it more a PERSONAL feeling why this program is so disliked as opposed to the program not fulfilling its promises? Do you have a "factual" objection to enrolling in PFT programs; ie, you get robbed, etc. or simply have a "dislike" for it? Respectfully, Jasper

February 21st, 2005, 15:08	#24
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,498	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program Jasper, you've been around this site enough to know what kind of reception your ideas are going to receive. I can only assume that you're looking for a reaction, i.e. flame-baiting. I thought you were above that. Steve

February 21st, 2005, 15:21	#25
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,589 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Another Buy to Fly Program It's very close to asking "What are the positive aspects of volunteering to get corn-holed by a sasquatch?" Not really anything, unless of course, you're into that!

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