Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination

LAX_Airport · February 16th, 2005, 18:37

Hey Folks:

I am new to, 'The Industry' and I believe half of what I hear and read....but, 'This just isn't cool if it's true!' This is a portion of the article below...For the complete article go to: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185019-1.html

Source: Avweb.com
By Rick Durden
Columnist

Aviation's Ugly Secret

Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in aviation. It is a white, male-dominated world, with its fair share of bigots who think that airplanes somehow won't fly unless white, heterosexual, protestant males are in the crew seats. They are convinced that the airplane knows the color of the pilot's skin because, by gawd, the Wright brothers were white and only white men are good enough to fly airplanes. The data regarding women having lower accident rates than men is lost on them. Women still get accused of sleeping their way into employment positions; they still get propositioned by married, male pilots, who proceed to turn in negative reports on their piloting skills when the proposition is turned down.

I recently received yet another report of a female co-pilot in a three-crew airplane who had the male flight engineer reach around from behind and fondle her breasts. She complained, and the captain and flight engineer both denied it happened. She was told to take a checkride on short notice, after a very unpleasant interview with the chief pilot in which he impugned her integrity but did not question that of either of the other two pilots. Amazingly, the captain who had been on the flight was placed in charge of the checkride. To no one's surprise, she failed it, and the airline was able to get rid of someone who 'wasn't on the team.'

A charter operator recently told its one female pilot that she had to go to a beauty salon for a 'makeover' and start wearing makeup, and until she did, she was grounded. She had been flying there for some time without any complaints. She was not a person who ever wore makeup and she was aware of the warnings about the danger of burns when wearing lipstick in the presence of 100% oxygen.

If you are not a white male, don't be so naïve to think that discrimination is a relic of the bad old days. Be prepared for it and decide ahead of time what you are going to do when it occurs. Know your rights and talk with your peers to get a feel for what you will be willing to tolerate, how you are going to react, where you are going to draw the line and how you are going to document it and fight it. If you are a white male, resolve not to tolerate displays of discrimination in any form, and to work to fight it.

See the complete article at:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185019-1.html

Maximillian_Jenius · February 16th, 2005, 18:55

Noooooo racism and discrimination are still alive in 2005 you've got to be kidding me,no say it ain't man say it ain't so (slaps face!)

-Matthew

tonyw · February 16th, 2005, 19:14

Of course there are bigoted bastards in aviation. Why would it be different than any other field?

LAX_Airport · February 16th, 2005, 19:23

I was checking out Flight Safety out at Vero Beach and doing the tour thing and one of the students walked by and gave me the EVILEST Look!
I hadn't seen someone that hateful since the blonde Nazi girl who did the same thing back in Berlin Germany in 1998. These were just dirty looks......but whatever dude.....LOL..."If your bold enough say whats on on your mind"

tonyw · February 16th, 2005, 19:29

Get used to it, my friend.

When I used to pitch advertising to hotels in various small towns, when I showed up sometimes the receptionist would say, oh, who ordered Chinese. The first time, I just laughed. After it happened more than a few times, though, I was like, you have got to kidding me. Want me to bring your dry cleaning with me, too?

But it wasn't too bad. It was one hell of a way to make sure I got some business. People would feel so guilty they'd buy from me.

JEP · February 16th, 2005, 19:30

[ QUOTE ]
Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in aviation.

[/ QUOTE ]

And... [ QUOTE ]
Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in insert chosen field here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know that it's any more or any less.

Doug Taylor · February 16th, 2005, 20:21

I'm sure I'll step on someone's toes with my answer (I tend to do that unintentionally, long story).

But I saw some things in the last 18 years of flying, but for the most part, the ride has been smooth and I've experienced no problems whatsoever.

The only problem I saw was whenever I progressed in my career, there was always some dumbass making comments like "Oh, we know why Skyway hired you". "Yeah, dork, I didn't bomb my interview and flew the ##### out of the sim and showed up on time, unlike you."

Then when I got hired by Delta, one guy said something to the sort of "The airlines don't hire white males, geez, you just made captain and they already hired you". Nevermind I met all of the requirements, had high-level reccomendations and kicked ass on the interview and I had a required four-year degree (unlike him), a positive "can do" attitude and interviewed with the idea that "I want the job, I'm fully qualified for it and if you give me a chance, I'll kick ass" rather than "I deserve the job, when do I start?".

But that's really it. Seriously.

No matter what you do, there are going to be people that try to rain on your parade or stand in your way. But here's the big secret, they're only raining on your parade or standing in your way if you let them. If someone tries to stand in your way, pardon my French, but knock them the hell out (not physically, but motivationally). If someone tries to "rain on your parade" bring up the fact that if they're so good, why the heck are they stagnant?

If someone stands in your way, screw 'em. They're not important. Surround yourself with positive people with your best interests in mind and you'll do well. Even if the world is that screwed up still, if you surround yourself with positive, like-minded and energetic people, the a**holes don't matter.

People want to stand in your way? Screw 'em. Point blank. Back the hell up or you're going to experience the distinct pleasure of a UK size-11 Doc Marten "four-eye" in the crack of your butt.

Sorry for the expletives, it's just a very passionate subject.

eeg · February 16th, 2005, 20:43

I was just talking to my wife about this morning. Just look at some college applications, surveys, etc. As long as we Americans classify ourselves as anything but Americans, racism will live.

My wife is a mixture of Puerto Rican and Italian, Her skin color is white, born here in the USA. We here in the USA would consider my wife as either; White, or Hispanic, or White but Hispanic, or Latin. Why? Why not just American, or Human.

My parents are from the Dominican Republic. My skin color is Black (brown to be exact). I was born here in the USA. We here in the USA would consider me as either; Black, or Hispanic, or Black but Hispanic. Why?

Why? Oh yeah! Because of surveys, polls, whatever, etc. Because people really need to know that more blacks than whites are on welfare, which by the way is a myth! But why is it a myth?

My daughter is a mixture of Dominican, Puerto Rican, and Italian. Her skin color is a beautiful. She was born here in the USA. Us here in the USA would consider her what? I consider her a beautiful girl.

So yeah, racism is still alive, very alive. It's very sad but true. You just have to ignore the ignorance and not let it bother you.

flyn_ace_99 · February 16th, 2005, 20:53

If you wanna great example of it... check out flightinfo.com 's forums... under Regionals... thread Female UAL 737 Captain...

I'm thouroughly discusted with that website after only one visit. I was hoping I would get another source of information about aviation. However, what I found was a poorly constructed forum and a bunch of J@ck@$$'.

I am so impressed by the class of the people here at Jetcareers. Thanks for being decent people!

Doug Taylor · February 16th, 2005, 20:55

Thank you, seriously, I really appreciate it.

I consider JC an extension of my living room. Turn on some good music, pull up a chair and lets talk! Have fun, keep it lighthearted, but don't pee on my rug.

Yeah, the rug that ties the room together so well. ("The Big Lebowski")

TheShortOne · February 16th, 2005, 21:39

I read about 2 pages of that flight info thread before I was so pissed that I wanted to punch someone in the face. Comments and attitudes like those are the reasons behind why women find it difficult to excel in a work enviornment. In order to get anywhere in a professional field a woman has to act assertive and aggressive, but these women are seen as "butch" or "bitches" or "assh0les*. When they don't act like that, they get walked all over by people who figure, "oh she doesn't care, if she did she'd say something" but the second she does, she's a "huge bitch"

#####in'A

Doug Taylor · February 16th, 2005, 21:46

Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck!

Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY.

MikeD · February 16th, 2005, 21:49

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck!

Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever happened with the old Doug Taylor that would tell me "let's go kick their ass, Mikey"

Doug Taylor · February 16th, 2005, 21:52

Doesn't stepping on someone's neck while sadistically smiling constitute "Let's go kick their ass, Mikey!"

Especially if you're enjoying it?

TheShortOne · February 16th, 2005, 21:52

it's not so much the naysayers as the people who bitch about you behind your back, or your boss(es) who act inappropriatly (ie the woman being told to wear makeup or getting a bad review because you don't "look" the part) I'm going through the whole "look" thing right now with my eyebrow piercing because certain people think it makes me look untrustworthy despite my kind, professional demeanor.

the naysayers I can deal with simply by succeeding, that's not a big deal.

Doug Taylor · February 16th, 2005, 21:54

Are people giving Kristie and my adopted daughter a problem? We'll take care of it! She's portable! Let's take her home and adopt her!

TheShortOne · February 16th, 2005, 21:56

thanks doug!

I guess I should rephrase my thought (not about me but naysayers). Naysayers aren't really the problem, the problem is the people who are in a position of authority over a woman and take advantage of that authority to make said woman act or look how they want.

MikeD · February 16th, 2005, 22:09

[ QUOTE ]
it's not so much the naysayers as the people who bitch about you behind your back,

[/ QUOTE ]

....yeah....., you know....that ShortOne girl.....I heard she.

doh!

JEP · February 16th, 2005, 22:20

ShortOne,

Not to agree or disagree with the naysayers, but to play devil's advocate here, when you went for the job interview, did you have your piercing(s) in? If you interviewed and had the thing in then they should have seen it and cannot really complain much at all. On the other hand, if you did not have it in and then show one day for work with your eyebrow pierced, I could see where that would catch them off guard. Is there any company policy/dress code type thing that prohibits that? The only time that I would see a problem with something like that, is if it somehow poses a safety risk. Other than that, Kepp On, Keeping On

TheShortOne · February 16th, 2005, 22:25

I didn't wear it for the interview, but I asked my boss about it before I wore it to work, there is no policy dealing with piercings, and our company prides itself on being diverse so I'm just adding to the diversity. other people who are higher up than me said something to my boss about it, although none of our clients have had any issues that they have expressed to me or any of my coworkers so I figure, they can deal with my differences and use this as a learning experiance. Not all people who have facial piercings are bad/evil/dishonest etc, just like not all people who are short are brilliant (unlike me)

jtrain609 · February 16th, 2005, 23:31

Emily's issues with her eyebrow piercing is the exact reason why my lebret piercing (the ball looking thing right under my lip for those that were at Vegas) came out after about 4 months. Sure it kind of got in the way during marching band; but I didn't want ANY kind of a scar because I realize how much this can affect my future employability. In fact, if I were not so paranoid about it I'd be going in next week to get my ears gauged out so that I could get some small plugs put in them, but I'm too worried about having a hole left in a few years that a 16 gauge (REAL small) earing could even fit through. I've got some 14 gauge earings in right now and I'm not too worried about it; but they'll be gone long before I interview for my first CFI job.

I hate the stereotypes that come with having a few piercings, which is that you're unprofessional, not dedicated, uneducated and whatever else you can think of. I've found the exact opposite to be true, but you've gotta still conform to the stereotypes of society if you want to keep moving up as far as I can tell. You can bet I'd be getting a GLP tattoo or something here if I could, but I'm going to be competing for a job against the "clean cut all American boy" and there's no way in hell that I'm going to let that Abercrombie wearing poser take my job just because he's some clean cut look alike.

Maybe I'll just go get my septum pierced, no one can see that...

Oh, and FIGHT THE MAN!

Maximillian_Jenius · February 17th, 2005, 00:34

John I love you man. I just worry that when you and Em get married and move to the suburbs and are making six figures and in a higher tax bracket your gonna become....gasp a republicans.
Much the same that our currently leaders were prolly hippies in the 60-70's and are now close minded conservative (expletives.)

Don't sell out....

-Matthew

jtrain609 · February 17th, 2005, 00:39

Absolutly no %$*($*# way, there is NO way I'm becoming a yuppie. I'm way too into the cause to have that happen. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm all into fiscal responsiblity but I don't view that as a liberal/conservative thing (even though conservatives always taut it), I view it as a growing up and realize you gotta pay the bills thing. Socially I'm never going to change, ever.

You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother

tonyw · February 17th, 2005, 00:42

[ QUOTE ]
You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always wondered about those guys. Ivy educated white guys.

Rage Against the Machine?

Dude, you guys ARE the freaking machine!

LAX_Airport · February 17th, 2005, 01:02

[ QUOTE ]
No matter what you do, there are going to be people that try to rain on your parade or stand in your way. But here's the big secret, they're only raining on your parade or standing in your way if you let them

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey thanks for the inspiration Doug!

View Poll Results: Which would you rather see?
Yes	26	30.59%
No	59	69.41%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

February 16th, 2005, 18:37	#1
LAX_Airport Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 76	Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination Hey Folks: I am new to, 'The Industry' and I believe half of what I hear and read....but, 'This just isn't cool if it's true!' This is a portion of the article below...For the complete article go to: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185019-1.html Source: Avweb.com By Rick Durden Columnist Aviation's Ugly Secret Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in aviation. It is a white, male-dominated world, with its fair share of bigots who think that airplanes somehow won't fly unless white, heterosexual, protestant males are in the crew seats. They are convinced that the airplane knows the color of the pilot's skin because, by gawd, the Wright brothers were white and only white men are good enough to fly airplanes. The data regarding women having lower accident rates than men is lost on them. Women still get accused of sleeping their way into employment positions; they still get propositioned by married, male pilots, who proceed to turn in negative reports on their piloting skills when the proposition is turned down. I recently received yet another report of a female co-pilot in a three-crew airplane who had the male flight engineer reach around from behind and fondle her breasts. She complained, and the captain and flight engineer both denied it happened. She was told to take a checkride on short notice, after a very unpleasant interview with the chief pilot in which he impugned her integrity but did not question that of either of the other two pilots. Amazingly, the captain who had been on the flight was placed in charge of the checkride. To no one's surprise, she failed it, and the airline was able to get rid of someone who 'wasn't on the team.' A charter operator recently told its one female pilot that she had to go to a beauty salon for a 'makeover' and start wearing makeup, and until she did, she was grounded. She had been flying there for some time without any complaints. She was not a person who ever wore makeup and she was aware of the warnings about the danger of burns when wearing lipstick in the presence of 100% oxygen. If you are not a white male, don't be so naïve to think that discrimination is a relic of the bad old days. Be prepared for it and decide ahead of time what you are going to do when it occurs. Know your rights and talk with your peers to get a feel for what you will be willing to tolerate, how you are going to react, where you are going to draw the line and how you are going to document it and fight it. If you are a white male, resolve not to tolerate displays of discrimination in any form, and to work to fight it. See the complete article at: http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185019-1.html

February 16th, 2005, 18:55	#2
Maximillian_Jenius Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA Posts: 18,793	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination Noooooo racism and discrimination are still alive in 2005 you've got to be kidding me,no say it ain't man say it ain't so (slaps face!) -Matthew

February 16th, 2005, 19:14	#3
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,323	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Of course there are bigoted bastards in aviation. Why would it be different than any other field?

February 16th, 2005, 19:23	#4
LAX_Airport Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 76	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat I was checking out Flight Safety out at Vero Beach and doing the tour thing and one of the students walked by and gave me the EVILEST Look! I hadn't seen someone that hateful since the blonde Nazi girl who did the same thing back in Berlin Germany in 1998. These were just dirty looks......but whatever dude.....LOL..."If your bold enough say whats on on your mind"

February 16th, 2005, 19:29	#5
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,323	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Get used to it, my friend. When I used to pitch advertising to hotels in various small towns, when I showed up sometimes the receptionist would say, oh, who ordered Chinese. The first time, I just laughed. After it happened more than a few times, though, I was like, you have got to kidding me. Want me to bring your dry cleaning with me, too? But it wasn't too bad. It was one hell of a way to make sure I got some business. People would feel so guilty they'd buy from me.

February 16th, 2005, 19:30	#6
JEP Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 10,670 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination [ QUOTE ] Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in aviation. [/ QUOTE ] And... [ QUOTE ] Racial, religious and sexual discrimination is very much alive and well in insert chosen field here. [/ QUOTE ] Don't know that it's any more or any less.

February 16th, 2005, 20:21	#7
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,225 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination I'm sure I'll step on someone's toes with my answer (I tend to do that unintentionally, long story). But I saw some things in the last 18 years of flying, but for the most part, the ride has been smooth and I've experienced no problems whatsoever. The only problem I saw was whenever I progressed in my career, there was always some dumbass making comments like "Oh, we know why Skyway hired you". "Yeah, dork, I didn't bomb my interview and flew the ##### out of the sim and showed up on time, unlike you." Then when I got hired by Delta, one guy said something to the sort of "The airlines don't hire white males, geez, you just made captain and they already hired you". Nevermind I met all of the requirements, had high-level reccomendations and kicked ass on the interview and I had a required four-year degree (unlike him), a positive "can do" attitude and interviewed with the idea that "I want the job, I'm fully qualified for it and if you give me a chance, I'll kick ass" rather than "I deserve the job, when do I start?". But that's really it. Seriously. No matter what you do, there are going to be people that try to rain on your parade or stand in your way. But here's the big secret, they're only raining on your parade or standing in your way if you let them. If someone tries to stand in your way, pardon my French, but knock them the hell out (not physically, but motivationally). If someone tries to "rain on your parade" bring up the fact that if they're so good, why the heck are they stagnant? If someone stands in your way, screw 'em. They're not important. Surround yourself with positive people with your best interests in mind and you'll do well. Even if the world is that screwed up still, if you surround yourself with positive, like-minded and energetic people, the a**holes don't matter. People want to stand in your way? Screw 'em. Point blank. Back the hell up or you're going to experience the distinct pleasure of a UK size-11 Doc Marten "four-eye" in the crack of your butt. Sorry for the expletives, it's just a very passionate subject.

February 16th, 2005, 20:43	#8
eeg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Fo\' Laudydaudy, FL. Posts: 235	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination I was just talking to my wife about this morning. Just look at some college applications, surveys, etc. As long as we Americans classify ourselves as anything but Americans, racism will live. My wife is a mixture of Puerto Rican and Italian, Her skin color is white, born here in the USA. We here in the USA would consider my wife as either; White, or Hispanic, or White but Hispanic, or Latin. Why? Why not just American, or Human. My parents are from the Dominican Republic. My skin color is Black (brown to be exact). I was born here in the USA. We here in the USA would consider me as either; Black, or Hispanic, or Black but Hispanic. Why? Why? Oh yeah! Because of surveys, polls, whatever, etc. Because people really need to know that more blacks than whites are on welfare, which by the way is a myth! But why is it a myth? My daughter is a mixture of Dominican, Puerto Rican, and Italian. Her skin color is a beautiful. She was born here in the USA. Us here in the USA would consider her what? I consider her a beautiful girl. So yeah, racism is still alive, very alive. It's very sad but true. You just have to ignore the ignorance and not let it bother you.

February 16th, 2005, 20:53	#9
flyn_ace_99 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: not apparently in this universe Posts: 248	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination If you wanna great example of it... check out flightinfo.com 's forums... under Regionals... thread Female UAL 737 Captain... I'm thouroughly discusted with that website after only one visit. I was hoping I would get another source of information about aviation. However, what I found was a poorly constructed forum and a bunch of J@ck@$$'. I am so impressed by the class of the people here at Jetcareers. Thanks for being decent people!

February 16th, 2005, 20:55	#10
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,225 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discrimination Thank you, seriously, I really appreciate it. I consider JC an extension of my living room. Turn on some good music, pull up a chair and lets talk! Have fun, keep it lighthearted, but don't pee on my rug. Yeah, the rug that ties the room together so well. ("The Big Lebowski")

February 16th, 2005, 21:39	#11
TheShortOne Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 3,299	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat I read about 2 pages of that flight info thread before I was so pissed that I wanted to punch someone in the face. Comments and attitudes like those are the reasons behind why women find it difficult to excel in a work enviornment. In order to get anywhere in a professional field a woman has to act assertive and aggressive, but these women are seen as "butch" or "bitches" or "assh0les*. When they don't act like that, they get walked all over by people who figure, "oh she doesn't care, if she did she'd say something" but the second she does, she's a "huge bitch" #####in'A

February 16th, 2005, 21:46	#12
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,225 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck! Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY.

February 16th, 2005, 21:49	#13
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat [ QUOTE ] Seriously, if someone gives you problems, plan to be faster, better, smarter and more professional then they are. Then smile graciously as you step on their neck! Success drives all of the naysayers friggen CRAZY. [/ QUOTE ] Whatever happened with the old Doug Taylor that would tell me "let's go kick their ass, Mikey"

February 16th, 2005, 21:52	#14
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,225 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Doesn't stepping on someone's neck while sadistically smiling constitute "Let's go kick their ass, Mikey!" Especially if you're enjoying it?

February 16th, 2005, 21:54	#16
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 40,225 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Are people giving Kristie and my adopted daughter a problem? We'll take care of it! She's portable! Let's take her home and adopt her!

February 16th, 2005, 21:56	#17
TheShortOne Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 3,299	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat thanks doug! I guess I should rephrase my thought (not about me but naysayers). Naysayers aren't really the problem, the problem is the people who are in a position of authority over a woman and take advantage of that authority to make said woman act or look how they want.

February 16th, 2005, 22:09	#18
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat [ QUOTE ] it's not so much the naysayers as the people who bitch about you behind your back, [/ QUOTE ] ....yeah....., you know....that ShortOne girl.....I heard she. doh!

February 16th, 2005, 22:20	#19
JEP Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP) Posts: 10,670 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat ShortOne, Not to agree or disagree with the naysayers, but to play devil's advocate here, when you went for the job interview, did you have your piercing(s) in? If you interviewed and had the thing in then they should have seen it and cannot really complain much at all. On the other hand, if you did not have it in and then show one day for work with your eyebrow pierced, I could see where that would catch them off guard. Is there any company policy/dress code type thing that prohibits that? The only time that I would see a problem with something like that, is if it somehow poses a safety risk. Other than that, Kepp On, Keeping On

February 16th, 2005, 22:25	#20
TheShortOne Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 3,299	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat I didn't wear it for the interview, but I asked my boss about it before I wore it to work, there is no policy dealing with piercings, and our company prides itself on being diverse so I'm just adding to the diversity. other people who are higher up than me said something to my boss about it, although none of our clients have had any issues that they have expressed to me or any of my coworkers so I figure, they can deal with my differences and use this as a learning experiance. Not all people who have facial piercings are bad/evil/dishonest etc, just like not all people who are short are brilliant (unlike me)

February 16th, 2005, 23:31	#21
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,289	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Emily's issues with her eyebrow piercing is the exact reason why my lebret piercing (the ball looking thing right under my lip for those that were at Vegas) came out after about 4 months. Sure it kind of got in the way during marching band; but I didn't want ANY kind of a scar because I realize how much this can affect my future employability. In fact, if I were not so paranoid about it I'd be going in next week to get my ears gauged out so that I could get some small plugs put in them, but I'm too worried about having a hole left in a few years that a 16 gauge (REAL small) earing could even fit through. I've got some 14 gauge earings in right now and I'm not too worried about it; but they'll be gone long before I interview for my first CFI job. I hate the stereotypes that come with having a few piercings, which is that you're unprofessional, not dedicated, uneducated and whatever else you can think of. I've found the exact opposite to be true, but you've gotta still conform to the stereotypes of society if you want to keep moving up as far as I can tell. You can bet I'd be getting a GLP tattoo or something here if I could, but I'm going to be competing for a job against the "clean cut all American boy" and there's no way in hell that I'm going to let that Abercrombie wearing poser take my job just because he's some clean cut look alike. Maybe I'll just go get my septum pierced, no one can see that... Oh, and FIGHT THE MAN!

February 17th, 2005, 00:34	#22
Maximillian_Jenius Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: KPHX, KFFZ, KIWA Posts: 18,793	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat John I love you man. I just worry that when you and Em get married and move to the suburbs and are making six figures and in a higher tax bracket your gonna become....gasp a republicans. Much the same that our currently leaders were prolly hippies in the 60-70's and are now close minded conservative (expletives.) Don't sell out.... -Matthew

February 17th, 2005, 00:39	#23
jtrain609 Old Skool Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 12,289	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat Absolutly no %$($# way, there is NO way I'm becoming a yuppie. I'm way too into the cause to have that happen. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm all into fiscal responsiblity but I don't view that as a liberal/conservative thing (even though conservatives always taut it), I view it as a growing up and realize you gotta pay the bills thing. Socially I'm never going to change, ever. You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother

February 17th, 2005, 00:42	#24
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,323	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat [ QUOTE ] You gotta Rage Against the Machine brother [/ QUOTE ] I've always wondered about those guys. Ivy educated white guys. Rage Against the Machine? Dude, you guys ARE the freaking machine!

February 17th, 2005, 01:02	#25
LAX_Airport Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 76	Re: Aviations Ugly Secret -Racial, religious & sexual discriminat [ QUOTE ] No matter what you do, there are going to be people that try to rain on your parade or stand in your way. But here's the big secret, they're only raining on your parade or standing in your way if you let them [/ QUOTE ] Hey thanks for the inspiration Doug!

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