Teterboro Apt.-Plane skids of RW

[JEP]

Plane has skidded off the rw into a bldg across teh street. From the CNN footage it appears it landed 06 and skidded across the street at the 24 end. live footage showing now on CNN. It is a smaller biz-jet. tail number n370v...

[ QUOTE ]
N370V is Assigned

Assigned/Registered Aircraft
Aircraft Description

Serial Number 1014 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name CANADAIR LTD Certificate Issue Date 02/08/2002
Model CL-600 CHALLENGER Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-Jet
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51032646
MFR Year 1980 Fractional Owner NO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Owner

Name 448 ALLIANCE LLC
Street 2800 W MOCKINGBIRD LN
City DALLAS State TEXAS Zip Code 75235-5805
County DALLAS
Country UNITED STATES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Airworthiness

Engine Manufacturer HONEYWELL Classification Standard
Engine Model ALF 502 SER Category Transport

A/W Date 09/01/2001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other Owner Names
None
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Temporary Certificate
Certificate Number T035559 Issue Date 10/28/2003 Expiration Date 11/27/2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[/ QUOTE ]

BTW, these news people are idiots when it comes to reporting on aviation. They are reporting it never made it off the ground. Possible abort.

[Tim]

Fox is reporting from the FAA it was headed to KMDW. They have a "aviation expert" who admitted he is not a pilot or crash expert. To listen to the speculation I just shake my head and go humm. The file photo they were showing was an CRJ with a Comair tail number. The plane the FAA website show is a Canadiar 600 but not the commercial version. I love expert opinion minutes after an accident

[Brandon]

This crash sounds all too familiar to the 604 crash in MTJ.

Bad few months for bombardier...two RJs and two challengers lost.

[flyover]

FWIW radio says all survived.

[VampyreGTX]

It was an aborted takeoff. Looking at the pics as well, the thrust reversers were deployed. Plane was headed to MDW from Teterboro and supposedly was a Verizon airplane managed by 448 Property Leasing or something like that.

Gotta love how Fox at one time said "it's a non-limo version of the Challenger used by the airlines."

Also, one new article mentions the "plane crashed on takeoff after it missed the runway." How the hell do you miss the runway on takeoff?

[tonyw]

Here's something from AP.

Teterboro Incident

[VampyreGTX]

"One witness said the pilot crawled out of the wreckage and said the crew lost control of the plane."

That's interesting.... icing on the plane? There was considerable frost in the area this morning according to posts on other boards about this from people that live in the vicinity.

Also, supposedly, 3 being admitted to hospitals with the co-pilot in critical condition with injuries to his lower extremities.

Update: all people involved accounted for and no fatalities, in the plane or on the ground. Though supposedly a few critical patients have been admitted to hospitals.

[darrenf]

I just took off from that same Runway about 8pm last night. I had light frost on the wings at that time, but no idea what might have been the cause this morning, guess I'll wait four months for the NTSB. I should say I had light frost on the wings during preflight, not when I took-off. Glad to hear everyone survived, since this morning they were reporting 1 fatality.

[flyover]

It would be unbelievable if another -600 crew attempted departure with contaminated wings.

Remember one of the first -604 crashes was in 2002 when a Challenger "rolled uncontrollably" at lift off. It was concluded that frost on the wings caused the left wing to stall and contact the runway at liftoff. Then you have the Montrose crash.

The pilot's reported comment of "lost control" sure sounds consistent with these other incidents.

I'll give the crew the benefit of the doubt until more is known. Just hope this isn't part of a depressing pattern.

[Grumpy01]

Wonder what our resident expert thinks of the fact that the stewardess is not considered crew?


Looking for pregnant lady response here

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Wonder what our resident expert thinks of the fact that the stewardess is not considered crew?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder what she's gonna think of you using the word "stewardess."


I'm over the poor quality of reporting when it comes to aviation. I read an article the other day on a gentleman who got his PPL when he was 78. It started out as a "good for him" mentality, and it turned into "who is this idiot writing the article?" Things like "He obtained his license from Douglas Aviation, which is located next to the Olive Branch airport." Um, idiot, it's ON the airport. The airport is more than just the runway, which is what Douglas is next to. Other items like "He hopes to one day move up from the simple aircraft (like the one pictured here) to more complex aircraft." It was a picture of a 182. Not EXACTLY a "simple" aircraft since you need an extra endorsement to fly it. As far as the guy mentioned in the article, I'd love to meet him. He ran across the border to join the CRAF in WWII when he was 16, and they shipped him back when they found out about his age. He joined the air corp later on. He wanted to be a pilot, but they told him "no." So he snuck into a plane with his buddies whenever he could. His wife made him promise not to fly again since it scared her, and he didn't. He got his PPL after she died as a healing process.

[crashmbern]

i've seen this plane at Long Island Jet Center before. Not sure if its owned by the same people as it used to be, but they were some pretty shady characters. N60S was one of there other planes.

[flyover]

[ QUOTE ]
i've seen this plane at Long Island Jet Center before. Not sure if its owned by the same people as it used to be, but they were some pretty shady characters. N60S was one of there other planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an amazing statement. "Shady characters" is a pretty vague term, used to damn without actually accusing them of anything. So what are they? Drug runners? Tax evaders? Philanderers? Federal reg violators? New Jersey natives?

[planejay]

[ QUOTE ]


Also, one new article mentions the "plane crashed on takeoff after it missed the runway." How the hell do you miss the runway on takeoff?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL that just made my day

[tonyw]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder what she's gonna think of you using the word "stewardess."

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe what I think of.

"Oh, stewardess, I speak jive."

[BCTAv8r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Also, one new article mentions the "plane crashed on takeoff after it missed the runway." How the hell do you miss the runway on takeoff?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL that just made my day

[/ QUOTE ]

haha!

[crashmbern]

ok???? take the pole out of your @$$

[Kristie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i've seen this plane at Long Island Jet Center before. Not sure if its owned by the same people as it used to be, but they were some pretty shady characters. N60S was one of there other planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an amazing statement. "Shady characters" is a pretty vague term, used to damn without actually accusing them of anything. So what are they? Drug runners? Tax evaders? Philanderers? Federal reg violators? New Jersey natives?

[/ QUOTE ] hit it right on the nose there!! how'd you figure that out? hahaha

[ticket2ride]

N370V Photo

[Seggy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i've seen this plane at Long Island Jet Center before. Not sure if its owned by the same people as it used to be, but they were some pretty shady characters. N60S was one of there other planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an amazing statement. "Shady characters" is a pretty vague term, used to damn without actually accusing them of anything. So what are they? Drug runners? Tax evaders? Philanderers? Federal reg violators? New Jersey natives?

[/ QUOTE ] hit it right on the nose there!! how'd you figure that out? hahaha

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't mess with Jersey

[ticket2ride]

Selected excerpts from Newsday, Thursday Feb 3

Deborah Hersman, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board, said the cockpit voice recorder was recovered and is being analyzed at a lab in Washington.

She said the plane crashed after aborting its takeoff, but did not say why the takeoff was nixed. Investigators who examined the runway Wednesday found no spilled fuel, no parts or debris and no evidence that either wing or the tail struck the pavement, Hersman said. The plane's flaps and thrust reversers were properly deployed for takeoff, she said.

Investigators listened to the cockpit voice recorder, but there was no indication of trouble until either the pilot or copilot was heard to say, "Discontinue takeoff," seconds before the plane skidded across the highway.

Bruce Hicks, a spokesman for Million Air, the Houston-based aircraft service company that fueled the plane in Teterboro before the crash, said his company did not de-ice the aircraft.

Hicks said the plane would have been de-iced had the pilots requested the service, which is standard procedure.

Hersman said no planes that took off prior to the CL-600 Wednesday morning had requested de-icing either.

Witnesses described the plane "sliding and skidding" down the runway before it slammed through a fence and across the six lanes of U.S. 46.

"Usually we see them lift off, but this one just went straight and started scratching the ground. There were sparks shooting out all over the place," said Joseph Massaro, a psychologist who lives nearby......

Bill Waldock, aviation safety professor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Arizona, said it's unlikely that icing would be a factor if the temperature was 22 degrees

Link to Newsday Article

[TallFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm over the poor quality of reporting when it comes to aviation.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's even funnier sometimes are those aviation books you see chocked full of pictures in Barnes&Noble and such. One recent edition, basically a book on how the AF trains their pilots, had at least half a dozen misidentified aircraft types. The best shot was of a chaplain, with bible in hand praying over a pilot in front of an aircraft. I mean, it was obvious. The caption was something to the effect of 'Bold Dashing Young Virile Pilot having a Promotion Pinned on by a Superior Officer.

I about busted out laughing. Seriously, get your average aviation crazy teenager to proof those things before they go out the door.

[sorrygottarunway]

I'll attest to the frost fact, my first flight at 6:20am was covered, but the two planes next to ours had quite a bit, and ours started forming again once the wing covers were removed. I guess the "as long as the collecting surface" adage remains true.

[SteveC]

The NTSB released updated information on this crash. Interesting.
[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
Preliminary evidence indicated that icing conditions at Teterboro were minimal or non-existent on the morning of the accident. Video surveillance recordings were obtained from the Port Authority. These recordings corroborate witness accounts and flight data recorder (FDR) data that indicated that the airplane did not pitch up during takeoff, even though the airplane was traveling at a high speed. Upper wing ice contamination has not been associated with the inability of an airplane to pitch up for takeoff; rather, upper wing ice is typically associated with the inability of an airplane to fly after it has pitched up to a takeoff attitude.

The airplane wreckage was removed from the accident site and was transferred to a nearby storage facility for further inspection. The recovered contents of the airplane were weighed. The center of gravity (CG) was found to be well forward of the allowable limit. The initial findings of the investigation have indicated that, the airplane, as configured, could have a CG well forward of the forward limit based on its cabin interior configuration combined with full or nearly full fuel tanks, including the fuselage tank, and a full or nearly full passenger load and minimum passenger baggage. In addition, the horizontal stabilizer trim position was documented in the middle of the green band (which is the normal takeoff range). The operations and performance groups have conducted tests using a simulator to evaluate the airplane's takeoff characteristics based on the trim settings and weight and balance data. The initial findings of those simulations indicate the airplane would not rotate for take off at the defined rotation speed.
<snip>

[/ QUOTE ]

Full NTSB Press Release here.

[av8rmsu]

[ QUOTE ]
The NTSB released updated information on this crash. Interesting.
[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
Preliminary evidence indicated that icing conditions at Teterboro were minimal or non-existent on the morning of the accident. Video surveillance recordings were obtained from the Port Authority. These recordings corroborate witness accounts and flight data recorder (FDR) data that indicated that the airplane did not pitch up during takeoff, even though the airplane was traveling at a high speed. Upper wing ice contamination has not been associated with the inability of an airplane to pitch up for takeoff; rather, upper wing ice is typically associated with the inability of an airplane to fly after it has pitched up to a takeoff attitude.

The airplane wreckage was removed from the accident site and was transferred to a nearby storage facility for further inspection. The recovered contents of the airplane were weighed. The center of gravity (CG) was found to be well forward of the allowable limit. The initial findings of the investigation have indicated that, the airplane, as configured, could have a CG well forward of the forward limit based on its cabin interior configuration combined with full or nearly full fuel tanks, including the fuselage tank, and a full or nearly full passenger load and minimum passenger baggage. In addition, the horizontal stabilizer trim position was documented in the middle of the green band (which is the normal takeoff range). The operations and performance groups have conducted tests using a simulator to evaluate the airplane's takeoff characteristics based on the trim settings and weight and balance data. The initial findings of those simulations indicate the airplane would not rotate for take off at the defined rotation speed.
<snip>

[/ QUOTE ]

Full NTSB Press Release here.

[/ QUOTE ]



Even more ironic.....

They have made a big deal out of this one???




On March 9, 2005, at 1312 central standard time, a Canadair CL-600, N660RM, registered to Romeo Mike Aviation Company Inc., operating as a 14 CFR Part 91 business flight, aborted takeoff from runway 36 and went off the departure end of the runway. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and an instrument flight rules flight plan was filed. The airplane received substantial damage. The airline transport rated pilot-in-command, (PIC) airline transport rated co-pilot, and five passengers reported no injuries. The flight was departing Tupelo Regional Airport, Tupelo, Mississippi, en route to Teterboro, New Jersey on March 9, 2005.

The PIC stated they were cleared for takeoff from runway 36. The flaps were set at 20-degrees and the trim was set for takeoff. The PIC advanced the thrust levers to 93 percent and started the takeoff roll. The takeoff run and acceleration were normal. The airplane reached V1 (128 knots) and VR (134 knots) and the PIC attempted to rotate the airplane with the control column. The control column would not move aft from the neutral position. The forward movement of the control column was normal. The aft movement beyond the neutral position felt as if it was locked against a stop. The airplane was about 4,000 feet down the runway between 140 to 145 knots. No annunciator's lights were illuminated. The PIC commanded the abort, extended the spoilers, applied maximum braking, and maximum reverse thrust, and maintained centerline down the runway. After the abort was initiated the PIC stated he continued to apply rearward pressure on the control column and he was not sure if he felt or heard a "crunch." He further stated, something may have given and the control column may have moved aft of the neutral position. The PIC stated the "crunch" was felt or heard after or at the abort procedure. The noise or the crunch may have come from below the flight deck. The airplane went off the end of the runway and the nose wheel collapsed in the mud.