Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO

planejay · November 29th, 2004, 23:37

Wish it said a little more.

EAGLE COUNTY - No one was hurt when a large corporate jet's landing gear malfunctioned as it was coming into Eagle County airport Monday.

The plane went off the runway and its nose gear collapsed. There was just a crew on board the Gulf Stream IV.

The airport has been closed until the accident can be cleared. It happened shortly after 2 p.m.

Jason · November 30th, 2004, 00:47

It wasn't a crash. The G IV operated by Net Jets International slid off the runway and the nose gear collapsed. No injuries and all on board exited via main cabin door. I don't know what source the above paragraph is from but there is absolutley no way they can determine there was a landing gear problem unless the pilots reported it prior to landing and even a half trained monkey would know not to land a G IV at Eagle with a gear issue.

Jason

November 30th, 2004, 08:23

Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual.

flyover · November 30th, 2004, 10:09

[ QUOTE ]
Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this is two weather related accidents/incidents in the same area involving marginal airports. You have to wonder how much pressure the corporate/fractional guys are under to complete the mission for their clients, some of whom are high-profile celebs.

I quit a corporate job cold 30 years ago because I was sure the captain was going to kill us trying to make our Jet Commander do things it couldn't do. All to avoid the wrath of the a**hole owner who threw a tantrum every time there was a cancellation or diversion for weather.

Are the fractional guys getting backed up when they cancel or divert? Anyone?

tonyw · November 30th, 2004, 10:26

And let's not forget the crash at Vail -- all because the guy they were flying had to get to dinner and refused to take no for an answer.

There was a long article about that one in AOPA Pilot.

MikeD · November 30th, 2004, 10:36

[ QUOTE ]
Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at any one day in teh NTSB database from now until as far back as you wanna go. A good number of accidents happen every day, you just don't hear about all of them.

mtsu_av8er · November 30th, 2004, 11:57

Yeah, Brian...this is nothing new.

November 30th, 2004, 13:30

If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly?

stuckingfk · November 30th, 2004, 13:33

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they can. They can fire you forever reason they want.

flyover · November 30th, 2004, 14:00

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be a little over the line.

How about "If I ever do become a corporate pilot I'll do my best to satisfy my passengers, but I'll never compromise on safety."

tonyw · November 30th, 2004, 14:09

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly?

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't be a corporate pilot for long with that kind of thinking.

Look up the term "at will employment" and then get back to me.

flyover · November 30th, 2004, 14:15

Just had a corporate pilot call in on a local talk radio show in Atlanta. He claimed he had taken off "thousands" of times with frost and ice on wings due to company pressure to not incur cost of deicing.

Sounded a little extreme to me. In 30 years of line flying I haven't needed to be deiced a thousand times.

But in my pre-121 days I did push the envelope out of ignorance and it almost cost me dearly. I suspect that's what we'll see at Montrose.

tonyw · November 30th, 2004, 14:32

God, I hope not. It sounds like a huge exaggeration, and I sure hope it is.

I have a couple of friends who fly corporate. They've been told by the CEO that if they don't feel that conditions are safe, don't take off, and that if anyone complains, tell them that the CEO said to listen to them.

Nobody's ever challenged them, because I've got the feeling that story got around the boardroom.

mtsu_av8er · November 30th, 2004, 15:14

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL...screw you, mr. Boss!! This may be your airplane, but I'm calling the shots her...wait....fired? Why are you calling security?

NJA_Capt · November 30th, 2004, 22:11

[ QUOTE ]
Are the fractional guys getting backed up when they cancel or divert?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know about the others, but at NetJets, we are backed 100%.

If we say the wx is bad.....done. No questions asked.
If the flight will take us over duty time limits.....done. No questions asked.
If it is a maint issue.....done. No questions asked.

I have never been pushed by the company OR by our owners.

PS....Can we edit the title of this thread to "incident" instead of crash? It sounds like something the media would come up with. The GIII in HOU was a "crash." A nose gear collapse, or "minor" bending of metal is NOT a crash.

November 29th, 2004, 23:37	#1
planejay Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: from CO in tulsa, ok Posts: 250	Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO Wish it said a little more. EAGLE COUNTY - No one was hurt when a large corporate jet's landing gear malfunctioned as it was coming into Eagle County airport Monday. The plane went off the runway and its nose gear collapsed. There was just a crew on board the Gulf Stream IV. The airport has been closed until the accident can be cleared. It happened shortly after 2 p.m.

November 30th, 2004, 00:47	#2
Jason Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,024	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO It wasn't a crash. The G IV operated by Net Jets International slid off the runway and the nose gear collapsed. No injuries and all on board exited via main cabin door. I don't know what source the above paragraph is from but there is absolutley no way they can determine there was a landing gear problem unless the pilots reported it prior to landing and even a half trained monkey would know not to land a G IV at Eagle with a gear issue. Jason

November 30th, 2004, 08:23	#3
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual.

November 30th, 2004, 10:09	#4
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual. [/ QUOTE ] Well this is two weather related accidents/incidents in the same area involving marginal airports. You have to wonder how much pressure the corporate/fractional guys are under to complete the mission for their clients, some of whom are high-profile celebs. I quit a corporate job cold 30 years ago because I was sure the captain was going to kill us trying to make our Jet Commander do things it couldn't do. All to avoid the wrath of the a**hole owner who threw a tantrum every time there was a cancellation or diversion for weather. Are the fractional guys getting backed up when they cancel or divert? Anyone?

November 30th, 2004, 10:26	#5
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO And let's not forget the crash at Vail -- all because the guy they were flying had to get to dinner and refused to take no for an answer. There was a long article about that one in AOPA Pilot.

November 30th, 2004, 10:36	#6
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] Do accidents happen these often or are people just posting everything that happens. There seems to be more accidents than usual. [/ QUOTE ] Look at any one day in teh NTSB database from now until as far back as you wanna go. A good number of accidents happen every day, you just don't hear about all of them.

November 30th, 2004, 11:57	#7
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO Yeah, Brian...this is nothing new.

November 30th, 2004, 13:30	#8
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly?

November 30th, 2004, 13:33	#9
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,630	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly? [/ QUOTE ] Yes they can. They can fire you forever reason they want.

November 30th, 2004, 14:00	#10
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. [/ QUOTE ] That may be a little over the line. How about "If I ever do become a corporate pilot I'll do my best to satisfy my passengers, but I'll never compromise on safety."

November 30th, 2004, 14:09	#11
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. Can the owner fire you for refusing to fly when conditions are hazardous and you as the PIC, decide not to fly? [/ QUOTE ] You won't be a corporate pilot for long with that kind of thinking. Look up the term "at will employment" and then get back to me.

November 30th, 2004, 14:15	#12
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO Just had a corporate pilot call in on a local talk radio show in Atlanta. He claimed he had taken off "thousands" of times with frost and ice on wings due to company pressure to not incur cost of deicing. Sounded a little extreme to me. In 30 years of line flying I haven't needed to be deiced a thousand times. But in my pre-121 days I did push the envelope out of ignorance and it almost cost me dearly. I suspect that's what we'll see at Montrose.

November 30th, 2004, 14:32	#13
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO God, I hope not. It sounds like a huge exaggeration, and I sure hope it is. I have a couple of friends who fly corporate. They've been told by the CEO that if they don't feel that conditions are safe, don't take off, and that if anyone complains, tell them that the CEO said to listen to them. Nobody's ever challenged them, because I've got the feeling that story got around the boardroom.

November 30th, 2004, 15:14	#14
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] If I ever do become a corporate pilot, I don't give a ##### about what they want. [/ QUOTE ] LOL...screw you, mr. Boss!! This may be your airplane, but I'm calling the shots her...wait....fired? Why are you calling security?

November 30th, 2004, 22:11	#15
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Low Earth Orbit Posts: 1,389	Re: Minor G-IV crash near Vail, CO [ QUOTE ] Are the fractional guys getting backed up when they cancel or divert? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about the others, but at NetJets, we are backed 100%. If we say the wx is bad.....done. No questions asked. If the flight will take us over duty time limits.....done. No questions asked. If it is a maint issue.....done. No questions asked. I have never been pushed by the company OR by our owners. PS....Can we edit the title of this thread to "incident" instead of crash? It sounds like something the media would come up with. The GIII in HOU was a "crash." A nose gear collapse, or "minor" bending of metal is NOT a crash.

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