Pilot's Union Rethinks Retirement Age

SteveC · November 29th, 2004, 08:18

From AvWeb:
[ QUOTE ]
Probably the longest-running debate in aviation circles (besides how to properly lean an engine) took a twist this week. After decades of defending mandatory retirement at age 60 for airline pilots, the largest pilots' union has agreed that it might be time for a change.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The union plans to poll its 64,000 members in the spring. Critics of the regulation, enacted in 1959, argue that today's 60-year-olds are more active, healthier and better-equipped for the job than their counterparts 40 years ago. They also argue that advances in aircraft and navigation technology have changed the job over the years.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More than 40 other countries have raised their pilot retirement age to 63 or 65. Mazor acknowledged that part of the impetus behind the union's review is that some pilots are hurting financially. The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue. It changed its focus, instead, to negotiating the generous retirement packages that are now in jeopardy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The article(s) are HERE.

I wonder what the airlines' stance will be on keeping the high-pay, high-seniority pilots on payroll when they could be replacing them with much lower-paid new-hires?

flyover · November 29th, 2004, 08:25

[ QUOTE ]
The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's BS. It changed positions because a majority of it's members favored the rule. Suddenly it was dangerous to fly beyond 60. If the sentiment shifts it will, again, become safe to fly beyond 60 in ALPA's view.

MikeD · November 29th, 2004, 08:51

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's BS. It changed positions because a majority of it's members favored the rule. Suddenly it was dangerous to fly beyond 60. If the sentiment shifts it will, again, become safe to fly beyond 60 in ALPA's view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree. All the lower-age guys in the union saw anyone remaining past 60 as a barrier to their moving up.

Oh how we become dog-eat-dog when the food gets scarce......

Mr_Creepy · November 29th, 2004, 09:14

I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety.

aloft · November 29th, 2004, 14:59

[ QUOTE ]
I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor did the FAA's when it imposed the rule.

TallFlyer · November 29th, 2004, 16:02

Here's another interesting article on the subject from the ever opinionated John Deakin, also found on AvWeb.

AvWeb Article

Mr_Creepy · November 29th, 2004, 16:23

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nor did the FAA's when it imposed the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aloft that's an interesting question. I believe you are talking more about the RAA and ATA, in particular, American Airlines. AA was promoting it for safety reasons, but the popular belief was it was more to retire some of the older union activists. My source for this is Flying the Line Part 2

aloft · November 29th, 2004, 17:41

I've read those arguments and it's pretty clear to me that The Administrator imposed the Age 60 rule as a favor to the then-CEO at AA. It wouldn't surprise me to see the ATA lobby to keep the rule right where it is.

That said, I have it on good authority from Kit Darby that thousands of Gulf War-era veteran airline pilots are due to retire in the next 25 years and that there will be a huge demand for replacement pilots, so I'd better hurry up and buy his stuff to assure myself a place at the table.

mpenguin1 · November 29th, 2004, 17:43

Just what Doug wants to hear, flying the MD88/MD90 till he 70 years old. Don't worry Doug, you will still be sitting in the right seat.

kellwolf · November 29th, 2004, 17:56

I'm sure the shift in sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with axed pensions and dropping wages, either. </sarcasm>

Mr_Creepy · November 29th, 2004, 23:14

[ QUOTE ]
That said, I have it on good authority from Kit Darby that thousands of Gulf War-era veteran airline pilots are due to retire in the next 25 years and that there will be a huge demand for replacement pilots, so I'd better hurry up and buy his stuff to assure myself a place at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL

November 29th, 2004, 08:18	#1
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,628	Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age From AvWeb: [ QUOTE ] Probably the longest-running debate in aviation circles (besides how to properly lean an engine) took a twist this week. After decades of defending mandatory retirement at age 60 for airline pilots, the largest pilots' union has agreed that it might be time for a change. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The union plans to poll its 64,000 members in the spring. Critics of the regulation, enacted in 1959, argue that today's 60-year-olds are more active, healthier and better-equipped for the job than their counterparts 40 years ago. They also argue that advances in aircraft and navigation technology have changed the job over the years. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] More than 40 other countries have raised their pilot retirement age to 63 or 65. Mazor acknowledged that part of the impetus behind the union's review is that some pilots are hurting financially. The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue. It changed its focus, instead, to negotiating the generous retirement packages that are now in jeopardy. [/ QUOTE ] The article(s) are HERE. I wonder what the airlines' stance will be on keeping the high-pay, high-seniority pilots on payroll when they could be replacing them with much lower-paid new-hires?

November 29th, 2004, 08:25	#2
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age [ QUOTE ] The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue. [/ QUOTE ] Well that's BS. It changed positions because a majority of it's members favored the rule. Suddenly it was dangerous to fly beyond 60. If the sentiment shifts it will, again, become safe to fly beyond 60 in ALPA's view.

November 29th, 2004, 08:51	#3
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The union fought the rule for the first 20 years after its enactment but then changed its position in 1980 because of the FAA's intractability on the issue. [/ QUOTE ] Well that's BS. It changed positions because a majority of it's members favored the rule. Suddenly it was dangerous to fly beyond 60. If the sentiment shifts it will, again, become safe to fly beyond 60 in ALPA's view. [/ QUOTE ] Agree. All the lower-age guys in the union saw anyone remaining past 60 as a barrier to their moving up. Oh how we become dog-eat-dog when the food gets scarce......

November 29th, 2004, 09:14	#4
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety.

November 29th, 2004, 14:59	#5
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 7,009	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age [ QUOTE ] I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety. [/ QUOTE ] Nor did the FAA's when it imposed the rule.

November 29th, 2004, 16:02	#6
TallFlyer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Anchorage, AK Posts: 512	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age Here's another interesting article on the subject from the ever opinionated John Deakin, also found on AvWeb. AvWeb Article

November 29th, 2004, 16:23	#7
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think we all know that ALPA's stance on this rule never had anything to do with safety. [/ QUOTE ] Nor did the FAA's when it imposed the rule. [/ QUOTE ] Aloft that's an interesting question. I believe you are talking more about the RAA and ATA, in particular, American Airlines. AA was promoting it for safety reasons, but the popular belief was it was more to retire some of the older union activists. My source for this is Flying the Line Part 2

November 29th, 2004, 17:41	#8
aloft Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Inside your OODA loop Posts: 7,009	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age I've read those arguments and it's pretty clear to me that The Administrator imposed the Age 60 rule as a favor to the then-CEO at AA. It wouldn't surprise me to see the ATA lobby to keep the rule right where it is. That said, I have it on good authority from Kit Darby that thousands of Gulf War-era veteran airline pilots are due to retire in the next 25 years and that there will be a huge demand for replacement pilots, so I'd better hurry up and buy his stuff to assure myself a place at the table.

November 29th, 2004, 17:43	#9
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 10,307 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age Just what Doug wants to hear, flying the MD88/MD90 till he 70 years old. Don't worry Doug, you will still be sitting in the right seat.

November 29th, 2004, 17:56	#10
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 13,860	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age I'm sure the shift in sentiment has absolutely nothing to do with axed pensions and dropping wages, either. </sarcasm>

November 29th, 2004, 23:14	#11
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Pilot\'s Union Rethinks Retirement Age [ QUOTE ] That said, I have it on good authority from Kit Darby that thousands of Gulf War-era veteran airline pilots are due to retire in the next 25 years and that there will be a huge demand for replacement pilots, so I'd better hurry up and buy his stuff to assure myself a place at the table. [/ QUOTE ] ROFL

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