7-Day Commercial/ME Course??

Coney · November 8th, 2004, 13:52

Tomorrow is my instrument rating check ride (ASEL). My next step is to earn the commercial certificate. I found a Part 61 school near my house that offers an intensive 7-day course for a combined multi-engine and commercial. The problem, however, is that I would still not have a commercial for single-engine airplanes -- just multi. Am I right? What would you suggest if my intensions are to fly for a living someday (e.g., airlines, charter, corporate)? Many Thanks!

DE727UPS · November 8th, 2004, 14:06

You are right, you wouldn't have your commercial single. You'd have to learn all those dumb lazy eights and on pylon eights and stuff in the single and do your commercial single add-on. It's not that big of a deal, though, and you'll save money in the end because you've already taken care of the complex time by doing your Comm ME first.

I disagree with the whole commercial thing so much that I refuse to train them.

mtsu_av8er · November 8th, 2004, 14:10

[ QUOTE ]

I disagree with the whole commercial thing so much that I refuse to train them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, I really am a better pilot because I can perform a Chandelle!!!!

jergar999 · November 8th, 2004, 14:28

I'm with Lloyd here. I can't even count the number of times I have been told to do eights on pylons and expect further clearance at XXXXZ!

mtsu_av8er · November 8th, 2004, 14:29

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with Lloyd here. I can't even count the number of times I have been told to do eights on pylons and expect further clearance at XXXXZ!

[/ QUOTE ]

DE727UPS · November 8th, 2004, 15:41

"expect further clearance at XXXXZ"

I actually enjoy IFR training and hold patterns. That's why I own three ground trainers and a IFR GPS equipped 152 aerobat. I love doing IFR training but you couldn't pay me enough to get involved with commericals.

mtsu_av8er · November 8th, 2004, 18:10

[ QUOTE ]
"expect further clearance at XXXXZ"

I actually enjoy IFR training and hold patterns. That's why I own three ground trainers and a IFR GPS equipped 152 aerobat. I love doing IFR training but you couldn't pay me enough to get involved with commericals.

[/ QUOTE ]

Instrument training is the best!!

Speaking of...how hard is it to get one of the old ATC ground trainers? How hard is it to get one certified??

Cachon · November 8th, 2004, 21:41

7 days for commercial? How many hours do you have?

DE727UPS · November 8th, 2004, 23:05

I see them on ebay from time to time. You can get one of the ATC 610's that were blanket certified in the 70's for 20 hours. Or, get one of the new PCATD's, which are really better trainers, that are good for 10 hours. For part 61, you don't have to "certify" each unit with the FAA. The manufacturer gets them certified, just like an airplane.

jergar999 · November 9th, 2004, 01:42

Sorry, I think my sarcasm was lost in the last post. I often question why the Commercial manuevers are the way they are.

mtsu_av8er · November 9th, 2004, 01:46

[ QUOTE ]
I see them on ebay from time to time. You can get one of the ATC 610's that were blanket certified in the 70's for 20 hours. Or, get one of the new PCATD's, which are really better trainers, that are good for 10 hours. For part 61, you don't have to "certify" each unit with the FAA. The manufacturer gets them certified, just like an airplane.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to get my hands on one of the ATC's. They fly pretty well (considering) - much better than the PCATD.

We have a PCATD at WOE, and it really is pretty crappy. MSFS does a lot better job at instrument flying....sad.

DE727UPS · November 9th, 2004, 01:56

Yeah. I have MSFS 2004 and it's got the best graphics. Elite went through the steps to get certified so that's what you gotta have. It's more about the hardware than the software. For an IFR legal PCATD you are looking at a yoke, rudder pedals (not sure why), throttle quadrant, and an avionics stack....plus the software.

ATC 610's are interesting. If you got one that fly's good, keep it. I have three of them and only one really fly's that well. I got that one on ebay for $300 and it wasn't working. Tore it apart and it was just the fuse holder was broke. Spliced some wires together, and it worked fine. Made a heck of a loud noise I couldn't figure out....thought it was in a constant stall or something. Turns out it was one of the latest models with "engine sound" and it was turned up all the way. Took me a while to figure it out. Anyhow....it's a very nice sim and prolly cost someone 10K at some point. I got it for $300. The ones with the digital DME instead of a needle pointer are the newest. Wood grain panels are the oldest. Though they are all old.....

What kind of PCATD do you have and why do you think it's crappy?

mtsu_av8er · November 9th, 2004, 02:34

We've got an Elite. I really do like the hardware...since you have an avionics stack and everything, there's probably alot better transfer once you get into the airplane. And, without a doubt, it's better than wasting money in the airplane learning how the VOR indicator behaves. For things like that, it's great. $25/hours is a heck of alot cheaper than trying to figure it out in the airplane, looking for traffic and burning gas. And the ability to slew the airplane anyplace you want is priceless.

The thing that I don't like about the Elite is that it seems so pitch-sensitive. Maybe it just takes some getting used to....

November 8th, 2004, 13:52	#1
Coney Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 3T5 Posts: 256	7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? Tomorrow is my instrument rating check ride (ASEL). My next step is to earn the commercial certificate. I found a Part 61 school near my house that offers an intensive 7-day course for a combined multi-engine and commercial. The problem, however, is that I would still not have a commercial for single-engine airplanes -- just multi. Am I right? What would you suggest if my intensions are to fly for a living someday (e.g., airlines, charter, corporate)? Many Thanks!

November 8th, 2004, 14:06	#2
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? You are right, you wouldn't have your commercial single. You'd have to learn all those dumb lazy eights and on pylon eights and stuff in the single and do your commercial single add-on. It's not that big of a deal, though, and you'll save money in the end because you've already taken care of the complex time by doing your Comm ME first. I disagree with the whole commercial thing so much that I refuse to train them.

November 8th, 2004, 14:10	#3
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? [ QUOTE ] I disagree with the whole commercial thing so much that I refuse to train them. [/ QUOTE ] Come on, I really am a better pilot because I can perform a Chandelle!!!!

November 8th, 2004, 14:28	#4
jergar999 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 140	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? I'm with Lloyd here. I can't even count the number of times I have been told to do eights on pylons and expect further clearance at XXXXZ!

November 8th, 2004, 14:29	#5
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? [ QUOTE ] I'm with Lloyd here. I can't even count the number of times I have been told to do eights on pylons and expect further clearance at XXXXZ! [/ QUOTE ]

November 8th, 2004, 15:41	#6
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? "expect further clearance at XXXXZ" I actually enjoy IFR training and hold patterns. That's why I own three ground trainers and a IFR GPS equipped 152 aerobat. I love doing IFR training but you couldn't pay me enough to get involved with commericals.

November 8th, 2004, 18:10	#7
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? [ QUOTE ] "expect further clearance at XXXXZ" I actually enjoy IFR training and hold patterns. That's why I own three ground trainers and a IFR GPS equipped 152 aerobat. I love doing IFR training but you couldn't pay me enough to get involved with commericals. [/ QUOTE ] Instrument training is the best!! Speaking of...how hard is it to get one of the old ATC ground trainers? How hard is it to get one certified??

November 8th, 2004, 21:41	#8
Cachon Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston MA Posts: 200	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? 7 days for commercial? How many hours do you have?

November 8th, 2004, 23:05	#9
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? I see them on ebay from time to time. You can get one of the ATC 610's that were blanket certified in the 70's for 20 hours. Or, get one of the new PCATD's, which are really better trainers, that are good for 10 hours. For part 61, you don't have to "certify" each unit with the FAA. The manufacturer gets them certified, just like an airplane.

November 9th, 2004, 01:42	#10
jergar999 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 140	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? Sorry, I think my sarcasm was lost in the last post. I often question why the Commercial manuevers are the way they are.

November 9th, 2004, 01:46	#11
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? [ QUOTE ] I see them on ebay from time to time. You can get one of the ATC 610's that were blanket certified in the 70's for 20 hours. Or, get one of the new PCATD's, which are really better trainers, that are good for 10 hours. For part 61, you don't have to "certify" each unit with the FAA. The manufacturer gets them certified, just like an airplane. [/ QUOTE ] I'd love to get my hands on one of the ATC's. They fly pretty well (considering) - much better than the PCATD. We have a PCATD at WOE, and it really is pretty crappy. MSFS does a lot better job at instrument flying....sad.

November 9th, 2004, 01:56	#12
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? Yeah. I have MSFS 2004 and it's got the best graphics. Elite went through the steps to get certified so that's what you gotta have. It's more about the hardware than the software. For an IFR legal PCATD you are looking at a yoke, rudder pedals (not sure why), throttle quadrant, and an avionics stack....plus the software. ATC 610's are interesting. If you got one that fly's good, keep it. I have three of them and only one really fly's that well. I got that one on ebay for $300 and it wasn't working. Tore it apart and it was just the fuse holder was broke. Spliced some wires together, and it worked fine. Made a heck of a loud noise I couldn't figure out....thought it was in a constant stall or something. Turns out it was one of the latest models with "engine sound" and it was turned up all the way. Took me a while to figure it out. Anyhow....it's a very nice sim and prolly cost someone 10K at some point. I got it for $300. The ones with the digital DME instead of a needle pointer are the newest. Wood grain panels are the oldest. Though they are all old..... What kind of PCATD do you have and why do you think it's crappy?

November 9th, 2004, 02:34	#13
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: 7-Day Commercial/ME Course?? We've got an Elite. I really do like the hardware...since you have an avionics stack and everything, there's probably alot better transfer once you get into the airplane. And, without a doubt, it's better than wasting money in the airplane learning how the VOR indicator behaves. For things like that, it's great. $25/hours is a heck of alot cheaper than trying to figure it out in the airplane, looking for traffic and burning gas. And the ability to slew the airplane anyplace you want is priceless. The thing that I don't like about the Elite is that it seems so pitch-sensitive. Maybe it just takes some getting used to....

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