TFR..Doh! He forgot .......

[JEP]

talk about a wake up call....

[ QUOTE ]
F-16's fire flares at two private planes
Updated: 10/09/2004 07:32:53 PM - VIDEO

People in Lake Elmo say they saw a military aircraft fire something at two private planes.

"We saw bright lights coming out of the fighter jet like it was being, like a small aircraft was being fired upon," Anne Gelbmann said.

A local pilot, who was flying one of the planes to test a new oil filter, says he forgot about the President's visit and the flight restrictions. He didn't check with flight services, and flares were fired at his plane to get his attention and get him out of the area.

"I just flew between two of them, I don't know how to explain it. I just didn't want one falling, especially on my fuel tank, I've got 40 gallons on either side. Kind of made a mess out it, I didn't mean to mess those people up like that, cause all that trouble," the pilot, Larry Kuehn said.

When a VIP like the President is in town, a temporary no fly zone goes into effect. When a no fly zone is in effect, an Air Force radar plane monitors the airspace. It is called AWACS, which stands for Airborne Warning and Control System. I can detect when an aircraft ventures into restricted air space. AWACS immediately calls the military to come in and intercept a plane.

National guard sources say in this case, two F-16's were unable to intercept the planes by radio, so they had to deploy the flares to get the pilots' attention.



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[MikeD]

I'm frankly getting pretty sick of this crap. It's happening again at SDL airport when Tuesday's presidential debate is held in the valley.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...rport09Z8.html

reference this part:

[ QUOTE ]

The Federal Aviation Administration issued two no-flight zones each with a radius of 10 miles. One circle is centered at Arizona State University, site of the third and final presidential debate Wednesday between Bush and Sen. John Kerry.

The other circle is centered at the Sanctuary on Camelback Mountain Resort in Paradise Valley, where Bush is expected to attend a Republican National Committee fund-raiser.

This is the fourth time in less than a year that the FAA has issued a temporary flight restriction over Scottsdale to accommodate visits by Bush. In August, Scottsdale Airport was closed for 19 hours for a Bush-Cheney rally at Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix. In January, Scottsdale Airport was allowed limited operations while Bush spoke at Mesa Community College.

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10 mile radius TFR, huh. For the first, ASU is about 25 miles from SDL, and the Sanctury resort is about 12+ miles from SDL; why is SDL affected? Plus, ASU is on the extended centerline for all runways at PHX, is no one going to be flying then either? It's all a bunch of crap.

[Kristie]

can you imagine the amount of money lost at these airports because of the TFR's?

The closer it gets to elections, the more TFRs there are.

[adreamer]

Plus President's backup / advance team. a quick stupid question - does President's "Marine one" has APU on it?

[kellwolf]

It's probably a 10 mile "no fly zone" with an added 30 mile ring where you need a discreet transponder code just to operate in the pattern. Happened in ORL every time the damn space shuttle launched or landed. If the mission got scrubbed, you could expect the same thing the next day.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
It's probably a 10 mile "no fly zone" with an added 30 mile ring where you need a discreet transponder code just to operate in the pattern. Happened in ORL every time the damn space shuttle launched or landed. If the mission got scrubbed, you could expect the same thing the next day.

[/ QUOTE ]

This crap is getting way out of hand!

[bullmastiff]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm frankly getting pretty sick of this crap. It's happening again at SDL airport when Tuesday's presidential debate is held in the valley.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...rport09Z8.html

reference this part:

[ QUOTE ]

The Federal Aviation Administration issued two no-flight zones each with a radius of 10 miles. One circle is centered at Arizona State University, site of the third and final presidential debate Wednesday between Bush and Sen. John Kerry.

The other circle is centered at the Sanctuary on Camelback Mountain Resort in Paradise Valley, where Bush is expected to attend a Republican National Committee fund-raiser.

This is the fourth time in less than a year that the FAA has issued a temporary flight restriction over Scottsdale to accommodate visits by Bush. In August, Scottsdale Airport was closed for 19 hours for a Bush-Cheney rally at Veterans Memorial Coliseum in Phoenix. In January, Scottsdale Airport was allowed limited operations while Bush spoke at Mesa Community College.

[/ QUOTE ]

10 mile radius TFR, huh. For the first, ASU is about 25 miles from SDL, and the Sanctury resort is about 12+ miles from SDL; why is SDL affected? Plus, ASU is on the extended centerline for all runways at PHX, is no one going to be flying then either? It's all a bunch of crap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take a guess how much AWACS hates it? LOL Noble Eagle I never minded even though some were 16 hour flights...But this!!!!! I remember orbiting over Crawford TX for 12 hours, due to the president having a BBQ at his ranch. I was pissed

[pilot602]

We're basically shut down for three days (in terms of flight instructing) at FFZ. It is, indeed, a bunch of ####e.

[Doug Taylor]

[ QUOTE ]
We're basically shut down for three days (in terms of flight instructing) at FFZ. It is, indeed, a bunch of ####e.

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Dang, had I known this, I'd have put off overseeding the lawn until next week!

[USMCmech]

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a quick stupid question - does President's "Marine one" has APU on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, almost all military helos have an APU. Mainly this is needed to run things out in the middle of nowhere.

On the VH-3 it is really obvious if you look at the side opposite the door. It is mounted on top of the landing gear sponson. It had to be relocated to make room for the lav.

The VH-60 has an APU in the same place as every other black hawk, above the cockpit.

[USMCmech]

[ QUOTE ]
It's probably a 10 mile "no fly zone" with an added 30 mile ring where you need a discreet transponder code just to operate in the pattern. Happened in ORL every time the damn space shuttle launched or landed. If the mission got scrubbed, you could expect the same thing the next day.

[/ QUOTE ]

The shuttle TFRs are about the only ones that make any knd of sense.

The timing of the TFRs are based on when the shuttle is fueled. Durring this time it is very vulnerable to even a small Cessna. Luiquid hydrogen is extreamly volitale, if it were to explode it would be the size of a small nuclear bomb.

[pilot602]

There are two no fly zones (FFZ just missed the being in the southern one) and the 30 mile "flight-plan only" ring. So for flight training purposes it's basically all a no-fly zone.

[pilot602]

[ QUOTE ]
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We're basically shut down for three days (in terms of flight instructing) at FFZ. It is, indeed, a bunch of ####e.

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Dang, had I known this, I'd have put off overseeding the lawn until next week!

[/ QUOTE ]

D'oh! Come on down to FFZ and sit on the couch ...

[gomntwins]

It'll be great when the president keeps talking about how great the economy is when I'm sitting on my ass at Stellar (phoenix area) for 3 days because I can't fly and make any money. Three days of no pay is gonna hurt me a lot. I'm sick of this.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
It'll be great when the president keeps talking about how great the economy is when I'm sitting on my ass at Stellar (phoenix area) for 3 days because I can't fly and make any money. Three days of no pay is gonna hurt me a lot. I'm sick of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's goin on at P19 these days?

[gomntwins]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It'll be great when the president keeps talking about how great the economy is when I'm sitting on my ass at Stellar (phoenix area) for 3 days because I can't fly and make any money. Three days of no pay is gonna hurt me a lot. I'm sick of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's goin on at P19 these days?

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Not a whole lot new is goin' on out at Stellar. I'm flight instructing out of there now, which is wonderful! Beyond that, the airport's still there- and not a whole lot has changed. It's interesting watching people try and land there... the houses and buildings so close to the runway really make for some interesting changes in the winds... so I get to watch a lot of go around or have some pretty bad landings-- but I'm guessing you probably saw/experienced the same thing when you were flyin' out of there. If you're ever in the area stop in and say hi (I'm at Angel Air)!

[CapnJim]

Made an IFR XC into Waco today, with the P-49 TFR in full effect. I was on an active flight plan, in radar contact with a discrete squawk so it was all above-board, but still a PITA.

Can't wait till he's out of office so I don't have to worry about that crap anymore, the only question is whether or not it'll be another month or another four years.

Hopefully, folks will come to thier senses and stop harrasing innocent GA pilots in their great Quest to Keep Democracy Safe From Skyhawks.

[tonyw]

While I'm no fan of George Bush, I'm not going to place the blame on him for these. These are put in place by the Secret Service. He probably has no clue what's up with them.

Now, the FRZ and ADIZ around DC? It's been around for so long that I think he has to know about that, and so I do blame him for not doing anything about that one.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It'll be great when the president keeps talking about how great the economy is when I'm sitting on my ass at Stellar (phoenix area) for 3 days because I can't fly and make any money. Three days of no pay is gonna hurt me a lot. I'm sick of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's goin on at P19 these days?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a whole lot new is goin' on out at Stellar. I'm flight instructing out of there now, which is wonderful! Beyond that, the airport's still there- and not a whole lot has changed. It's interesting watching people try and land there... the houses and buildings so close to the runway really make for some interesting changes in the winds... so I get to watch a lot of go around or have some pretty bad landings-- but I'm guessing you probably saw/experienced the same thing when you were flyin' out of there. If you're ever in the area stop in and say hi (I'm at Angel Air)!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah....nice field, but there's SO much more housing popping up than there was during my time there. I'm surprised there hasn't been noise complaints and airport restrictions starting up....

[pilot602]

There are ...

No T&Gs on Sunday mornings, no night flights, no ... ("recomended" of course)

[Hootie]

Wow, pilots sure do like to b1tch. First off in the bigger scheme of things almost no money is lost. Regularly scheduled air commerce (airlines) can fly uninterupted in the entire tfr (at least thats what FSS has told me). and in the 10-30 mile ring all you have to do is be on an IFR or even VFR flight. If you are in the 10-30 mile ring as a flight instructor you can take your student to a different airport outside the tfr for touch and go's. In my area I had a student who needed to solo but had been getting shut down for a week cause of schedules and weather but we flew out of our tfr and I jumped out at another airport and he got his solo done. If you are in the 10 mile ring and you are a cfi, ENJOY your day(s) off, or catch up on some subject matters you could teach a little more clearly. Just don't waste your life whining....

Take Care.

[tonyw]

[ QUOTE ]
First off in the bigger scheme of things almost no money is lost.

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Tell that to the people who are struggling to run operations at this airport.

Washington Executive Airport

Or this one.

Potomac Airfield

Or this one.

College Park Airport

[Hootie]

I called them, and after a brief exchange of ideas they concurred.

[tonyw]

Yeah? How is Dave these days? How does he like living under the FRZ for yet another year? What does he think about the buyout that the feds are tossing around?

How about JD? Is he talking about shutting down shop again?

Having flown out of two of those three airports, I can state with 100 percent certainty that if you think there is no economic impact related to these restrictions, you better not try to get your medical renewed anytime soon because you're smoking something that the FAA doesn't allow.