Speaking of Scabs... - Page 6

Mr_Creepy · October 11th, 2004, 20:07

[ QUOTE ]
Mein Fahrer

[/ QUOTE ]

My driver? You want to drive for me?

LOL

Mr_Creepy · October 11th, 2004, 20:09

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the snippet, but I'm still not seeing how ALPA national has an 'official scab list', which I seriously doubt.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'll see about three posts back I recanted on the Official claim. My "beg to differ" was about the possibility of a court case.

ALPA Legal knows they have a right to publich a scab list now.

tonyw · October 11th, 2004, 20:12

[ QUOTE ]
Mein Fahrer is so much cooler.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mein Fahrer! I can drive!

Said as I bite my gloved hand.

Doug Taylor · October 11th, 2004, 20:44

As in "Flugzeug Fahrer" LeRoy!

MarineNav · October 12th, 2004, 04:29

FAHRVERGNUGEN!

JR

flyover · October 12th, 2004, 08:47

[ QUOTE ]
ALPA Legal knows they have a right to publich a scab list now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like you may be right. I hope ALPA stays out of that business. I would expect they would given that they have people on that list who are now ALPA members. And using it to deny jumpseat access is asking for jumpseat wars.

Besides, while the word "contemptuous" may be applied to scabs it can also be applied to some of the harrassment activites directed at scabs.

http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archiv...9/msg00055.htm

tonyw · October 12th, 2004, 11:21

I agree. Just because you have the right to publish a scab list doesn't mean you should do it.

Having a public document that airs your dirty laundry is not smart.

BuckTurgidson · October 12th, 2004, 14:51

So,

Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab?

How about if you thought they were a scab?

Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot?

I knew an F/A for a legacy carrier that said if there was a scab sitting in the cabin the other F/A's would be rude to them and spit in their drinks. Any truth to any of this?

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 15:02

[ QUOTE ]

Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab?

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly. It's a hard fought union-negotiated benefit. It's a customary priviledge, not a irrevocable right.

[ QUOTE ]
How about if you thought they were a scab?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Not for purient suspicion. But personally, if I knew the person was a scab and I was captain, he wouldn't be on my jumpseat.

[ QUOTE ]
Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
I knew an F/A for a legacy carrier that said if there was a scab sitting in the cabin the other F/A's would be rude to them and spit in their drinks. Any truth to any of this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really depends. There's no single culture of the airlines. The analysts like to think there is, but each airline's culture is vastly different. Things that are hunky-dory at Airline-A aren't at Airline-B and it all depends on their histories.

We had a couple of former-airliner scabs at my present employer, but they've retired. We've never been on strike before so whether or not a jumpseater is a scab or not doesn't cross many minds. However, things are probably different at United and especially Continental because of thier labor history.

BuckTurgidson · October 12th, 2004, 15:09

Thanks for the response Doug.

Also, when you refuse the jumpseat to a scab are you polite about it or do you do it with extreme prejudice, i.e. "Piss on you, Scab!"

I guess that if you are a scab you are used to being refused the jumpseat, and you'd better forget about commuting!

MQAAord · October 12th, 2004, 15:09

There are F/As at AA who carry scab lists of the AA F/As who scabbed in '93. These scabs are treated with polite hosility at best on the line. Those who work with them only converse with them as much as is needed to get the job done. No chit chat, no galley talk.

I never carried a list myself. When I was ORD based I was on new-hire probation, and when you're a probie you just keep your mouth shut and do your job and don't say 'boo' to anyone. When I was in NY I was too busy commuting to have the time & energy to deal with carrying a list and constantly checking names against it. But lots of people do!

Bog · October 12th, 2004, 16:35

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Clear as mud?

[/ QUOTE ]

Clear as a heavy lead curtain my friend!

(Quick! Name the punk band whose lyric that is!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Dangit you people never answer your phone.

Bad Religion's "Infected." Yeah baby!!!!

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 16:39

Well if you call when I'm home!

I was outside celebrating Columbus day by working on the lawnmower. w00t!

MikeD · October 12th, 2004, 17:23

[ QUOTE ]

Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Happened to me while jumping on a United DC-10. Four-striper FE wanted to check my airline ID against his list.........even though I would've been 18-19 years old when the EAL crap was going on, and 13 years old when CAL was happening.

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 17:26

Man those were different times!

I remember arguing with Chris Tuite in the parking lot about how $80G's for a A310 captain was a reasonable amount for the Eastern guys.

Damn I was an idiot!

DE727UPS · October 12th, 2004, 17:39

I remember during the CAL strike I had like 500 hours total. I didn't even know what a union was. I remember wishing I had more experience.

I was an uneducated idiot. Though, I'm sure at some point, I would have gotten a fine education from the striking guys.

I think it's good the internet exists now so the word is out that crossing a picket line isn't acceptable and that unions are around for a reason.

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 17:46

Yes.

But that hard part is trying to convey that to the next generation of professional pilots. On one hand, you want to help them shorten their learning curve. But on the other hand, when I was in spirited debate with one of my roommates about the Eastern strike in college, he made a lot of the same points that I make now, but I rejected them.

Probably more to do with human psychology more than anything else I guess!

MikeD · October 12th, 2004, 17:48

[ QUOTE ]
Yes.

But that hard part is trying to convey that to the next generation of professional pilots. On one hand, you want to help them shorten their learning curve. But on the other hand, when I was in spirited debate with one of my roommates about the Eastern strike in college, he made a lot of the same points that I make now, but I rejected them.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the cycle still happens. Ask Bog if he recognizes the name RPortiesjr from someplace...........

Bog · October 12th, 2004, 18:38

[ QUOTE ]
Ask Bog if he recognizes the name RPortiesjr from someplace...........

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh ... please no. Allow me one forum without mention of that tool's name...

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 19:08

*ears perk up*

Sounds interesting but out of mad respect for the Bogster, I won't ask!

flyover · October 12th, 2004, 20:12

[ QUOTE ]
I remember arguing with Chris Tuite in the parking lot about how $80G's for a A310 captain was a reasonable amount .........

Damn I was an idiot!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe just ahead of your time?

Doug Taylor · October 12th, 2004, 20:18

Considering my brother clears about $65K/year spraying for moquitos in Visalia, CA...

Mr_Creepy · October 12th, 2004, 22:49

[ QUOTE ]
So, Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only had two opportunities to accept or deny scabs.

In both cases I asked them if they were scabs. They both said yes. My next question was "are you sorry you did it."

One said, "Hell no - F*** ALPA." I refused him the jumpseat.

The other said, "it was the biggest mistake of my life - I would never do it again."

By the way, his name was Duckworth and he turned out to be a fairly cool guy, but he knows he messed up his career forever.

We talked all the way to Philly. With him on the jumpseat.

October 11th, 2004, 20:07	#126
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Mein Fahrer [/ QUOTE ] My driver? You want to drive for me? LOL

October 11th, 2004, 20:09	#127
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Thanks for the snippet, but I'm still not seeing how ALPA national has an 'official scab list', which I seriously doubt. [/ QUOTE ] If you'll see about three posts back I recanted on the Official claim. My "beg to differ" was about the possibility of a court case. ALPA Legal knows they have a right to publich a scab list now.

October 11th, 2004, 20:12	#128
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Mein Fahrer is so much cooler. [/ QUOTE ] Mein Fahrer! I can drive! Said as I bite my gloved hand.

October 11th, 2004, 20:44	#129
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... As in "Flugzeug Fahrer" LeRoy!

October 12th, 2004, 04:29	#130
MarineNav Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 301	Re: Speaking of Scabs... FAHRVERGNUGEN! JR

October 12th, 2004, 08:47	#131
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] ALPA Legal knows they have a right to publich a scab list now. [/ QUOTE ] Looks like you may be right. I hope ALPA stays out of that business. I would expect they would given that they have people on that list who are now ALPA members. And using it to deny jumpseat access is asking for jumpseat wars. Besides, while the word "contemptuous" may be applied to scabs it can also be applied to some of the harrassment activites directed at scabs. http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archiv...9/msg00055.htm

October 12th, 2004, 11:21	#132
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Speaking of Scabs... I agree. Just because you have the right to publish a scab list doesn't mean you should do it. Having a public document that airs your dirty laundry is not smart.

October 12th, 2004, 14:51	#133
BuckTurgidson Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 69	Re: Speaking of Scabs... So, Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab? How about if you thought they were a scab? Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot? I knew an F/A for a legacy carrier that said if there was a scab sitting in the cabin the other F/A's would be rude to them and spit in their drinks. Any truth to any of this?

October 12th, 2004, 15:02	#134
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab? [/ QUOTE ] Certainly. It's a hard fought union-negotiated benefit. It's a customary priviledge, not a irrevocable right. [ QUOTE ] How about if you thought they were a scab? [/ QUOTE ] No. Not for purient suspicion. But personally, if I knew the person was a scab and I was captain, he wouldn't be on my jumpseat. [ QUOTE ] Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. [ QUOTE ] I knew an F/A for a legacy carrier that said if there was a scab sitting in the cabin the other F/A's would be rude to them and spit in their drinks. Any truth to any of this? [/ QUOTE ] I really depends. There's no single culture of the airlines. The analysts like to think there is, but each airline's culture is vastly different. Things that are hunky-dory at Airline-A aren't at Airline-B and it all depends on their histories. We had a couple of former-airliner scabs at my present employer, but they've retired. We've never been on strike before so whether or not a jumpseater is a scab or not doesn't cross many minds. However, things are probably different at United and especially Continental because of thier labor history.

October 12th, 2004, 15:09	#135
BuckTurgidson Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 69	Re: Speaking of Scabs... Thanks for the response Doug. Also, when you refuse the jumpseat to a scab are you polite about it or do you do it with extreme prejudice, i.e. "Piss on you, Scab!" I guess that if you are a scab you are used to being refused the jumpseat, and you'd better forget about commuting!

October 12th, 2004, 15:09	#136
MQAAord Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 9,624	Re: Speaking of Scabs... There are F/As at AA who carry scab lists of the AA F/As who scabbed in '93. These scabs are treated with polite hosility at best on the line. Those who work with them only converse with them as much as is needed to get the job done. No chit chat, no galley talk. I never carried a list myself. When I was ORD based I was on new-hire probation, and when you're a probie you just keep your mouth shut and do your job and don't say 'boo' to anyone. When I was in NY I was too busy commuting to have the time & energy to deal with carrying a list and constantly checking names against it. But lots of people do!

October 12th, 2004, 16:35	#137
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Clear as mud? [/ QUOTE ] Clear as a heavy lead curtain my friend! (Quick! Name the punk band whose lyric that is!) [/ QUOTE ] Dangit you people never answer your phone. Bad Religion's "Infected." Yeah baby!!!!

October 12th, 2004, 16:39	#138
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... Well if you call when I'm home! I was outside celebrating Columbus day by working on the lawnmower. w00t!

October 12th, 2004, 17:23	#139
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Are there pilots that keep a copy of that list and scan it before extending jumpseat privliges to another pilot? [/ QUOTE ] Yup. Happened to me while jumping on a United DC-10. Four-striper FE wanted to check my airline ID against his list.........even though I would've been 18-19 years old when the EAL crap was going on, and 13 years old when CAL was happening.

October 12th, 2004, 17:26	#140
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... Man those were different times! I remember arguing with Chris Tuite in the parking lot about how $80G's for a A310 captain was a reasonable amount for the Eastern guys. Damn I was an idiot!

October 12th, 2004, 17:39	#141
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,577	Re: Speaking of Scabs... I remember during the CAL strike I had like 500 hours total. I didn't even know what a union was. I remember wishing I had more experience. I was an uneducated idiot. Though, I'm sure at some point, I would have gotten a fine education from the striking guys. I think it's good the internet exists now so the word is out that crossing a picket line isn't acceptable and that unions are around for a reason.

October 12th, 2004, 17:46	#142
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... Yes. But that hard part is trying to convey that to the next generation of professional pilots. On one hand, you want to help them shorten their learning curve. But on the other hand, when I was in spirited debate with one of my roommates about the Eastern strike in college, he made a lot of the same points that I make now, but I rejected them. Probably more to do with human psychology more than anything else I guess!

October 12th, 2004, 17:48	#143
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Yes. But that hard part is trying to convey that to the next generation of professional pilots. On one hand, you want to help them shorten their learning curve. But on the other hand, when I was in spirited debate with one of my roommates about the Eastern strike in college, he made a lot of the same points that I make now, but I rejected them. [/ QUOTE ] And the cycle still happens. Ask Bog if he recognizes the name RPortiesjr from someplace...........

October 12th, 2004, 18:38	#144
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] Ask Bog if he recognizes the name RPortiesjr from someplace........... [/ QUOTE ] Ugh ... please no. Allow me one forum without mention of that tool's name...

October 12th, 2004, 19:08	#145
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... ears perk up Sounds interesting but out of mad respect for the Bogster, I won't ask!

October 12th, 2004, 20:12	#146
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] I remember arguing with Chris Tuite in the parking lot about how $80G's for a A310 captain was a reasonable amount ......... Damn I was an idiot! [/ QUOTE ] Maybe just ahead of your time?

October 12th, 2004, 20:18	#147
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Speaking of Scabs... Considering my brother clears about $65K/year spraying for moquitos in Visalia, CA...

October 12th, 2004, 22:49	#148
Mr_Creepy Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the O-zone Posts: 5,810	Re: Speaking of Scabs... [ QUOTE ] So, Would any of you pilots that "flew the line" refuse a jumpseat to someone that you knew was a scab? [/ QUOTE ] I only had two opportunities to accept or deny scabs. In both cases I asked them if they were scabs. They both said yes. My next question was "are you sorry you did it." One said, "Hell no - F*** ALPA." I refused him the jumpseat. The other said, "it was the biggest mistake of my life - I would never do it again." By the way, his name was Duckworth and he turned out to be a fairly cool guy, but he knows he messed up his career forever. We talked all the way to Philly. With him on the jumpseat.

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