Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine?

Snow · September 17th, 2004, 17:01

Hello gang, I'm seeking some advice from anybody flying for the big boys as to which experence is more valued as someone wanting to move onto the airlines.

I've discovered at a particular 61 flight school (which I'll leave annomous) I can work there as a CFI full time for $17hr plus benefits, working roughtly 50hrs a month. Plus the real big bonus is they have a Senica available for time building which is aviable to CFIs only, for $100hr! In addition they have an arrangement with a local part 135 cargo operator to hire CFIs as pilots for there fleet of Cessna 402 cargo planes with only 300hrs multi. (so for about $2400 I could meet this requirement) They have a fleet of about 30 402's and a new Citation, salery for the 402 is close to $35k. Flying for the 402 is around 25hrs a week flying with an average of 5hrs IMC per week. It's also a single pilot operation so it's all IFR ME PIC time Would this experence be useful in wanting to apply for an airline job?

Do I...
A) work as a part 141 flight instructor until I get enough experence to apply to a regional?

B) work breifly as a part 61 flight instructor and then fly 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a regional?

C) Work 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a major airline, skiping the regionals all together?

Much thanks for you input.

SteveC · September 17th, 2004, 17:10

[ QUOTE ]
Do I...
A) work as a part 141 flight instructor until I get enough experence to apply to a regional?

B) work breifly as a part 61 flight instructor and then fly 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a regional?

C) Work 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a major airline, skiping the regionals all together?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well I don't fly for the big boys, but I'll throw a thought out there in the form of a question: Which one sounds like something you'd really enjoy doing for a few years?

Kingairer · September 17th, 2004, 17:23

I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

mastermags · September 17th, 2004, 18:03

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... however I wouldnt think my opinion counts since im not a commercial pilot.

stuckingfk · September 17th, 2004, 18:09

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably won't happen if he stays in the 402, but Snow mentioned they have a Citation. If he were to upgrade to that, it would more than qualify him for a major.

A pilot coming from 135 cargo can certainly be competive when applying for employment at a major, as long as the 135 operator flies some sort of a multi turbine aircraft.

jonnyb · September 17th, 2004, 23:12

[ QUOTE ]
It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long!

[/ QUOTE ]
Say Kingairer, how many charter operators have you worked for? What companies? Equipment? How long? The above statement you made could be true for whatever regional you work for in the future. Or are you immune now? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Kingairer · September 17th, 2004, 23:23

Ive seen what shady 134.5 Cargo Operators can do to people. I know there not all like that, but plenty are. There are plenty of 135 cargo operators that have old worn out airplanes they use to bid contracts. These contracts are awarded and when the contract expries, sometimes the companies do as well.

RiddlePilot · September 17th, 2004, 23:40

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long!

[/ QUOTE ]
Say Kingairer, how many charter operators have you worked for? What companies? Equipment? How long? The above statement you made could be true for whatever regional you work for in the future. Or are you immune now? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was joking...

ananoman · September 17th, 2004, 23:46

I find it hard to believe that after recently being a student, you could get to 300 hrs of multi in only 24 more hours (24 X $100=2400). You would also have to have at least 1200 hrs to be PIC under 135, so you will have to be a flight instructor for a while anyway.

135 is a valid way to go, and you can easily upgrade to a jet eventually and go to the majors, or what ever is left of them in a few years. You are unlikely to go from a 402 directly into a large jet. I am a little suprised that they pay that much to fly a 402.

cimepilot · September 18th, 2004, 16:08

Snow,

I went to Flightsafety. I then worked as a Part 61 instructor for 12 months, finsihing with 1250 total time and 200 multi. I am now working for a Part 135 cargo operation and love it. The pay is good, I have three days off every week and will be in the Learjet sometime early next year.

I have to say though, it takes a certain pilot and person to fly 135 single-pilot cargo at night. It is not for everyone, but if you think the nights will work for you then go for it.

Personally, I want nothing to do with the regionals and their crappy pay and long upgrade times. $20,000 a year with a $500 loan payment doesn't cut it. Nor does waiting 3-8 years to start logging PIC time.

tonyw · September 18th, 2004, 19:22

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could if you were flying it for Cape Air!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Snow · September 19th, 2004, 12:52

"I find it hard to believe that after recently being a student, you could get to 300 hrs of multi in only 24 more hours (24 X $100=2400). "

Woops I mean't 240hrs, I guess that's $24,000, DOH! Hum, that did sound a little too good to be true [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyone else got an opinion on this? Doug? A340Capt?

Thanks

ananoman · September 19th, 2004, 20:37

It would be retarded to buy $24,000 worth of multi time. Why not just get an instructing job somewhere that does multi-engine training? You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway. Unless you plan on buying another 700 hrs of time, your $24,000 would be wasted. (and I would argue that your money would be wasted no matter what you do along these lines)

cimepilot · September 19th, 2004, 23:26

[ QUOTE ]
You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time.

jonnyb · September 19th, 2004, 23:59

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's what ananoman said. He didn't say it had to be all PIC. Think you just misread it Cime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

mtsu_av8er · September 20th, 2004, 00:08

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's what ananoman said. He didn't say it had to be all PIC. Think you just misread it Cime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a little confusing after reading everything... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

cimepilot · September 20th, 2004, 21:06

Sorry guys! I jumped the gun on that one!

September 17th, 2004, 17:01	#1
Snow Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 869	Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? Hello gang, I'm seeking some advice from anybody flying for the big boys as to which experence is more valued as someone wanting to move onto the airlines. I've discovered at a particular 61 flight school (which I'll leave annomous) I can work there as a CFI full time for $17hr plus benefits, working roughtly 50hrs a month. Plus the real big bonus is they have a Senica available for time building which is aviable to CFIs only, for $100hr! In addition they have an arrangement with a local part 135 cargo operator to hire CFIs as pilots for there fleet of Cessna 402 cargo planes with only 300hrs multi. (so for about $2400 I could meet this requirement) They have a fleet of about 30 402's and a new Citation, salery for the 402 is close to $35k. Flying for the 402 is around 25hrs a week flying with an average of 5hrs IMC per week. It's also a single pilot operation so it's all IFR ME PIC time Would this experence be useful in wanting to apply for an airline job? Do I... A) work as a part 141 flight instructor until I get enough experence to apply to a regional? B) work breifly as a part 61 flight instructor and then fly 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a regional? C) Work 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a major airline, skiping the regionals all together? Much thanks for you input.

September 17th, 2004, 17:10	#2
SteveC Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR Posts: 8,412	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] Do I... A) work as a part 141 flight instructor until I get enough experence to apply to a regional? B) work breifly as a part 61 flight instructor and then fly 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a regional? C) Work 135 cargo until I get enough experence to apply to a major airline, skiping the regionals all together? [/ QUOTE ] Well I don't fly for the big boys, but I'll throw a thought out there in the form of a question: Which one sounds like something you'd really enjoy doing for a few years?

September 17th, 2004, 18:03	#4
mastermags Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 1,303	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I agree... however I wouldnt think my opinion counts since im not a commercial pilot.

September 17th, 2004, 18:09	#5
stuckingfk Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande Posts: 2,556	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] It probably won't happen if he stays in the 402, but Snow mentioned they have a Citation. If he were to upgrade to that, it would more than qualify him for a major. A pilot coming from 135 cargo can certainly be competive when applying for employment at a major, as long as the 135 operator flies some sort of a multi turbine aircraft.

September 17th, 2004, 23:12	#6
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [/ QUOTE ] Say Kingairer, how many charter operators have you worked for? What companies? Equipment? How long? The above statement you made could be true for whatever regional you work for in the future. Or are you immune now? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

September 17th, 2004, 17:23	#3
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,168	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? I think you can take #3 off the list. I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. Im sure its happened before, but i would say the exception rather then the rule. It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

September 17th, 2004, 23:23	#7
Kingairer Old Skool Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Nomadic...World Wide Boobie Bungalow Bouncer Posts: 3,168	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? Ive seen what shady 134.5 Cargo Operators can do to people. I know there not all like that, but plenty are. There are plenty of 135 cargo operators that have old worn out airplanes they use to bid contracts. These contracts are awarded and when the contract expries, sometimes the companies do as well.

September 17th, 2004, 23:40	#8
RiddlePilot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 928	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It would be a shocker for a 135 operator to last that long! [/ QUOTE ] Say Kingairer, how many charter operators have you worked for? What companies? Equipment? How long? The above statement you made could be true for whatever regional you work for in the future. Or are you immune now? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I think he was joking...

September 17th, 2004, 23:46	#9
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? I find it hard to believe that after recently being a student, you could get to 300 hrs of multi in only 24 more hours (24 X $100=2400). You would also have to have at least 1200 hrs to be PIC under 135, so you will have to be a flight instructor for a while anyway. 135 is a valid way to go, and you can easily upgrade to a jet eventually and go to the majors, or what ever is left of them in a few years. You are unlikely to go from a 402 directly into a large jet. I am a little suprised that they pay that much to fly a 402.

September 18th, 2004, 16:08	#10
cimepilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 231	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? Snow, I went to Flightsafety. I then worked as a Part 61 instructor for 12 months, finsihing with 1250 total time and 200 multi. I am now working for a Part 135 cargo operation and love it. The pay is good, I have three days off every week and will be in the Learjet sometime early next year. I have to say though, it takes a certain pilot and person to fly 135 single-pilot cargo at night. It is not for everyone, but if you think the nights will work for you then go for it. Personally, I want nothing to do with the regionals and their crappy pay and long upgrade times. $20,000 a year with a $500 loan payment doesn't cut it. Nor does waiting 3-8 years to start logging PIC time.

September 18th, 2004, 19:22	#11
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,198	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] I doubt your gonna fly a 402 for a few years and then go to a major. [/ QUOTE ] You could if you were flying it for Cape Air! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

September 19th, 2004, 12:52	#12
Snow Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 869	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? "I find it hard to believe that after recently being a student, you could get to 300 hrs of multi in only 24 more hours (24 X $100=2400). " Woops I mean't 240hrs, I guess that's $24,000, DOH! Hum, that did sound a little too good to be true [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Anyone else got an opinion on this? Doug? A340Capt? Thanks

September 19th, 2004, 20:37	#13
ananoman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 916	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? It would be retarded to buy $24,000 worth of multi time. Why not just get an instructing job somewhere that does multi-engine training? You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway. Unless you plan on buying another 700 hrs of time, your $24,000 would be wasted. (and I would argue that your money would be wasted no matter what you do along these lines)

September 19th, 2004, 23:26	#14
cimepilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 231	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time.

September 19th, 2004, 23:59	#15
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time. [/ QUOTE ] I think that's what ananoman said. He didn't say it had to be all PIC. Think you just misread it Cime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

September 20th, 2004, 00:08	#16
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,426	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You will need 1,200 hr to be PIC of a single pilot aircraft under 135 anyway. [/ QUOTE ] You only need 1200 total time to captain under FAR 135. It does not have to be PIC time. [/ QUOTE ] I think that's what ananoman said. He didn't say it had to be all PIC. Think you just misread it Cime. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] That was a little confusing after reading everything... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

September 20th, 2004, 21:06	#17
cimepilot Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 231	Re: Job choice, 135 PIC or 121 SIC Turbine? Sorry guys! I jumped the gun on that one!

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