Multi Commercial

[Cachon]

The only complex aircraft at my FBO it out of service for at least the next 3 months.

My CFI now tells me that one of the choices that I have is to finish my commercial in a twin and them when the arrow comes back to service again I can do another check ride in the arrow.

He estimate that is going to take me about 20 of multi time before i'm ready for a check ride. does this sounds about right?

Anyone that knows or has done this before, what are the pros and cons of doing it this way?

thanks

[C650CPT]

It sounds to me like your CFI wants another 20 hrs. of Multi time, if you didn't blink he would have said " 20 did I say 20, I meant 30". In all fairness to the instructor, he knows you and your present skill level so ...

I did my comm Multi first and added the single engine later when I decided I needed my CFI, I had about 10.5 hrs at check ride time, and this was because I needed 10 hrs. of complex time.

I don't see any real downside to this, but if you are unsure go to another FBO / Airport and do your single engine first. The reality is you will use a single engine comm ( as a CFI ), before a multi engine comm.

[kellwolf]

I'm doing this right now. Why? Well, ERAU won't give me credit for a SE Comm towards my degree. It HAS to be ME Comm/IFR for me to get anything other than an "elective."

Realistically, I'd say 20-30 is about right for the ME Comm. If you were doing an add-on, it would be less since you wouldn't have to do the XCs and the other stuff that goes with the Comm. I tried finding out if I could do the XCs in a single, but for the initial comm, it has to be in the category and class (and type if required) of the a/c you plan on getting the rating in. The CFI I'm using also did his ME Comm and then the SE add-on.

[little_cricket]

While 20 hours is on the higher side, I always overestimated so the student wasn't whinning about an extra hour they needed. Average was about 15 hours for the Multi Commerical. It is the same checkride for the multi whether you get the single or the multi first (the oral might might be more indept on commerical privelages though). The advantage of doing the multi first is the single engine commerical does not have to be a complex aircraft which will save ya a couple bucks but not much. Good luck.

Edit: Forgot (been a few years) about the X-C, so there goes the savings though it is multi "golden" time.

[C310_pilot]

[ QUOTE ]
The only complex aircraft at my FBO it out of service for at least the next 3 months.

My CFI now tells me that one of the choices that I have is to finish my commercial in a twin and them when the arrow comes back to service again I can do another check ride in the arrow.

He estimate that is going to take me about 20 of multi time before i'm ready for a check ride. does this sounds about right?

Anyone that knows or has done this before, what are the pros and cons of doing it this way?

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you have any multi time yet? You will need it so finish the commercial off in the twin and get the single add on in a 152. Nobody will ever let you fly with only 20hrs anyway.

[PurduePilot]

For the commercial you really only need the complex for the landing/takeoff portions. Everything else can be done in a Warrior.

I was in the same position you were when I was doing my CFI checkride. A few days before the governor went on the Arrow and parts of the checkride were done in a Warrior and when the Arrow came back online we did the takeoffs/landings in it.

Mind you this checkride dragged on for 4 solid days! Between the weather (low ceilings, high winds), botched maneuvers, scheduling, and aircraft availability made for one heck of a checkride. At least the examiner was understanding about the problems.

[Cachon]

Well 20 hours it just an estimate of course.

I started commercial on the arrow and I did the X-country time exept for the long one ( which is 250 NM), someone had a bad landing and screw up the aircraft pretty badlly.

Now that kellwolf mention about the X-C time, If he is right, it's sounds like I'm going to have to redo the X-C on the multi.

From what I have read and what my CFI has toll me It looks like some of the commercial maneuvers are not included on the multi check ride. Which mean I don't have to learn lazy 8 etc...on the multi.

That should save some time and money.

[PurduePilot]

As a CFI myself, I question the motives of a fellow CFI trying to get you into a multi on the verge of your Commerical/Single-Engine checkride.

I think they're trying to get multi time off you, which would place you in the same boat I'm in. Although I place the instructors at King Aviation (I'm assuming that's where you fly out of since you're at 1B9) in the highest regard, trying to get my MEI to sign me off for the multi checkride has been like pushing a boulder up a hill. I fly everything within PTS standards but he keeps finding another reason not to sign me off.

I recently had a discussion with my MEI in which I threatened to go to ATP to finish up my multi and amazingly the next lesson I had a checkride scheduled.

Alrighty, I'm done rating. So to conclude, unless I'm missing something, I would advise you to finish up your commerical in the single then go on to the multi. That's the way most places do it and that's the way I'd advise my students to do it.

[Cachon]

Hi purduepilot

Well the plan was to do just that, but the only complex single engine they have it out of service.

"I think they're trying to get multi time off you, which would place you in the same boat I'm in. Although I place the instructors at King Aviation (I'm assuming that's where you fly out of since you're at 1B9) in the highest regard, trying to get my MEI to sign me off for the multi checkride has been like pushing a boulder up a hill. I fly everything within PTS standards but he keeps finding another reason not to sign me off".

Who is your instructor?

Thats the situation that I'm concerned about because I'm on a tight budget.

[Cachon]

I looked up the FAR/AIM

Here is what is needed for Multi on part 141

1) 5 hours of instrument training in a multi.

2) 10 hours in a multi with retractable landing gear......

3) x-c of at least 100 NM during in day VFR. (on the Multi.)

4) X-C of at least 100 NM of night VFR. (on the Multi)

5) 3 hours of multi in preparation for the practical test.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

[PaulRix]

I recently finished up my commercial ratings/licences.

I think i had 14 hours in the Arrow for the initial checkride, followed by 8 hours in a Seminole for the Multi-engine addon (with ATP on their 4 day course). I think it will be more expensive to do the Multi-Engine checkride first... but I have to say that 8 hours of multi-engine training got me to the point where I could pass a checkride, but not really to the point where I was completely comfortable flying the Seminole. It also helped that the Arrow I flew had similar systems and the cockpit layout was almost identical. Is there no other complex single at a nearby airport?

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is what is needed for Multi on part 141

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're doing 141, all bets are off. Not really anyone of us can tell you since it's probably an approved cirriculum, if they even HAVE one for ME comm before the SE.

Here's what I've had to do (Part 61 in a Seneca):

250 nm xc
100 nm day VFR
100 nm night VFR
10 night landings in controlled airspace

There's some other stuff in there other than the "training to profeciency." If there's no other complex SE, then really ME is your best option. If by some miracle the Arrow will be fixed before your ETA on the SE checkride, I'd keep going with that. And yeah, you don't have to do lazy 8s, chandelles or power off 180s.

[Cachon]

Kellwolf

Thanks for the info. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].