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September 5th, 2004, 04:45
| #26 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Space Shuttle
Posts: 620
|  Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] I'd say paranoia. Simply because "spotting" isn't a one-man hobby, tons of people do it. Just look at airliners.net or jetphotos.net. An unknown hobby? I think not. Plenty of people have a fascination with airplanes, what's wrong with taking it to the next level, and having the literature to back it up? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] Although, in all fairness how often do you really see someone on an airplane with binoculars, writing something down he's looking at outside? Aside from my picture taking on flights I have yet to see such a thing. So I don't blame them for being somewhat concerned, after 9/11 better safe than sorry I say. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ... Let me ask you this, would you say that Northwest flight into LAX was paranoia or a legit concern? [/ QUOTE ] I've had quite a few run in's with "John Law" at the airport. On one occasion I was just minding my own business sitting in my car, watching planes. The cops were called by a passerby saying that I looked suspicious (Me suspicious.. HA... I'm a total geek.. It must have been the antennas on my car or something). [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] Well, the cop that came up to my car was totally cool. He saw my scanner and all my aviation related books and magazines and other flying things in my car and started to talk flying with me. He understood that this was a hobby of mine to sit and watch planes and listen to ATC. He had no problem with it. He even suggested other spots for me to watch planes from. (What a guy... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) I wish more cops were like this guy along with other citizens. But I totally understand that they have a job to do and that there are really people out there that could possibly provide a problem to aviation. I'm glad that people are being checked out. I get alittle aggravated being labeled by some police officers and citizens as a terrorist, but that's what I have to go through every now and then to enjoy my hobby. That all being said my frequency of plane spotting adventures has slowly decreased. I really spend more time picking a spot and making notes of how the public sees me as I watch planes. You have to be careful and not push your luck. Plane Spotting can be quite entertaining, especially when you don't have some little ole lady calling the cops on ya. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] P.S. A tip that I learned the hard way. Find the local Police Frequencies and plug them into your scanner. It's a great way to know when it's time to leave. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] |
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September 5th, 2004, 07:57
| #27 |
| Junior Member  Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 165
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? I'm with Doug on this one; unless I'm doing something wrong, leave me alone. It upsets me that things I like to do, like sitting at the end of the runway watching planes takeoff and land, is now considered suspicious behavior. When we give up our personal freedoms, even the smallest ones, the bad guys have won. |
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September 5th, 2004, 08:17
| #28 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 301
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? Hello Cruiser, It looks like legitimate concern followed by paranoia. However, I'm kind of surprised that binocular are allowed on board. JR |
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September 5th, 2004, 12:03
| #29 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul
Posts: 1,896
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] It was true hundreds of years ago, and it's true now. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. [/ QUOTE ] (and they soon enough will be deprived of both.) |
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September 5th, 2004, 12:10
| #30 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul
Posts: 1,896
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] That all being said my frequency of plane spotting adventures has slowly decreased. I really spend more time picking a spot and making notes of how the public sees me as I watch planes. You have to be careful and not push your luck. Plane Spotting can be quite entertaining, especially when you don't have some little ole lady calling the cops on ya. [/ QUOTE ] This is exactly why we have to fight this paranoid BS. Why should you have to stop doing something lawful which you enjoy doing simply because some person who doesn't have any understanding of what's going on around him decides that he's going to be concerned? (How's that for a run-on monstrosity?) I'll admit that there is a probably a line which we should voluntarily not cross (for example, loudly singing allah's praises just before take-off would be just mean . . . and might get you hurt). But it seems to me that only an idiot would think that someone sitting around watching planes would be of any harm. (In fact, at KMSP, they have a small parking lot which is designed solely for watching planes) If we're going to cave-in to the concerns of every idiot who comes along, our freedoms are gone! MF |
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September 5th, 2004, 14:57
| #31 |
| Agent Smith  | Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? Now if 'legitimate concern' = legal 'probable cause', is one thing, but this is something else. "Spotting" is a little weird and geeky, yes, but suspicious? Doubt it. So someone knows that N1239FE landing at SRQ at 1532. Big deal. Or someone has binoculars on an aircraft looking at ramp operations, big deal. Because you can take a 5 megapixel digital camera, like we all carry around, and digitally zoom it with photo shop and probably get a clearer picture. If we're going to outright 'ban' binoculars, we've got to ban high-megapixel digital cameras as well -- including photoshop and fireworks because they can all be used in the hands of terrorists to .. to.... enhance photos for suspicious purposes. Where does it stop? |
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September 5th, 2004, 15:39
| #32 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,505
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] I've had quite a few run in's with "John Law" at the airport. On one occasion I was just minding my own business sitting in my car, watching planes. The cops were called by a passerby saying that I looked suspicious (Me suspicious.. HA... I'm a total geek.. It must have been the antennas on my car or something). [/ QUOTE ] There's a really good place for spotting at BNA, in the parking lot for the Airport Police. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] Not even inside their little area. Oh, but they'll tell you to get away from there, and that it's a "restricted area". Riiigghhht. Flashlight cops...gotta love 'em! |
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September 5th, 2004, 15:42
| #34 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,505
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] It was true hundreds of years ago, and it's true now. They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin had it right. [/ QUOTE ] There you go, talking that crap. We all know that the founding fathers really didn't what the world would be like today, and if they did they wouldn't have written all that freedom stuff. [/sarcasm] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Happy Birthday, Tony! |
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September 5th, 2004, 15:55
| #35 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa
Posts: 3,750
 | Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] Seriously though. We're supposed to be tougher and smarter than this. [/ QUOTE ] Critical thinking ... a lost art. |
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September 5th, 2004, 16:04
| #36 |
| Agent Smith | Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] Critical thinking ... a lost art. [/ QUOTE ] Primarily because we've lost that healthy rebelliousness that we used to have when we questioned authority. A nation of bedwetting wusses. A world of 'non-specific threats' to keep anxiety up for what purpose? Tom Ridge: "Something's going to happen, we're got 'chatter' eek! eek!" Ok, what Tom? And what do you want the average Joe to do about it? Fear and loathing? Or just simply gnashing of teeth and basic anxiety, what's the flavor, bubb? |
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September 5th, 2004, 16:31
| #37 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa
Posts: 3,750
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? I think he wants us to buy duct tape and plastic sheeting ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] |
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September 5th, 2004, 17:10
| #38 |
| Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,505
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] I think he wants us to buy duct tape and plastic sheeting ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] |
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September 5th, 2004, 23:44
| #39 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 13,687
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] I wish more cops were like this guy along with other citizens. But I totally understand that they have a job to do and that there are really people out there that could possibly provide a problem to aviation. I'm glad that people are being checked out. I get alittle aggravated being labeled by some police officers and citizens as a terrorist, but that's what I have to go through every now and then to enjoy my hobby. [/ QUOTE ] I went out to MEM with my dad to watch planes the other night. We used to do this DAILY when I was a kid. They had spots all along the fence you could pull up to and watch planes. Now? Oh, you'll get run off real quick. The airport authourity has bought out a lot of neighborhoods in the surrounding area (including the one where I used to live) and levelled the houses there. I found a back street and we parked there. Could really only see the planes after they rotated and on climb out. Made us both a little sad. Airports and cities in general could go a long way towards both alleviating some of the paranoia AND helping the spotters if they had designated watching areas. ORL has one off the aproach end of rwy 7 that really isn't that bad. MCO used to have a great spot right below the flight path and off the approach end of 18R/18L. Then the craziest started fearing terroirst with shoulder fired rockets. They closed down the viewing area, but curiosly the toll road, surface road and apartment buildings were untouched. I've heard of other int'l airports that have great viewing areas, too. LAS even pipes in the tower frequency over an FM station for spotters. |
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September 6th, 2004, 00:10
| #40 |
| Old Skool  Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,466
  | Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? Thanks, buddy! And you're right. We have become a nation of handwringers. Planespotting may be an odd hobby, but it is a hobby that some people enjoy. And they are entitled to it. We can't let this kind of paranoia become normal. It's just, well, un-American. If I could have one birthday present, it would be for sanity to return to this country. |
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September 6th, 2004, 00:43
| #41 |
| Moderator  Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,498
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? [ QUOTE ] Thanks, buddy! And you're right. We have become a nation of handwringers. Planespotting may be an odd hobby, but it is a hobby that some people enjoy. And they are entitled to it. We can't let this kind of paranoia become normal. It's just, well, un-American. If I could have one birthday present, it would be for sanity to return to this country. [/ QUOTE ] Then a double happy birthday and may your wish come true! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] |
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September 6th, 2004, 11:56
| #42 |
| Newbie  Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6
| Re: Legitimate concern or simple paranoia ? Its already been established that the girl was being paranoid. But some simple logical reasoning could set her and the others who if a fly buzzes around there head to hard it must be because of terrorists.If the plane spotter guy was really a terrorist who's sole purpose was to hijack the plane in the name of "Allah"...would it really have been wise to draw any sort of attention to himself while on the ground with a hobby that might seem a little queer and alarm passengers who've been sensitized to that sort of thing by 9/11 and risk being put off the plane? The answer is probably no. I think ppl need to reason a bit when they see supposedly strange activities instead of running all scared and raising a "terror alert". Also why be so overly suspicious of ppl observing anything to do with aviation? Terror can strike in anyform. Make the airports more secure....buses, trains, cars..anything you can think of can be rigged to explode and reak havoc...mind you I'm not saying that security is unnecessary but its seems...like if ppl are allowing themselves to become slaves to fear...because of failure to exercise there reasoning ability... RH |
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