Airline - Quality service and ticket prices

[pilot602]

But we're not talking about a customer we're talking about a scammer ... that person that raised hell and got what they wanted is still going to go around telling the story about how bad things were and how much they had to complain to finally get what they wanted. That person is not goingto go around saying "oh, they did this for me ..."

[Cachon]

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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.


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Nope. I disagree. You(a company) provide a service, which is needed otherwise your business wouldn't be there in the first place. But beyond that when companies start giving away their product in order to "keep the customer happy" all they are doing is costing the business money and in the long run OTHER custoemrs because the "base price" needs to go up to cover all the "freebies."

Companies have rules and when customers start bitching loudly to get around those rules and are given into that is not customer service that is extortion.

[/ QUOTE ]Pilot602

I respect your opinion but here is where we disagree.

If xxx airline charge me $150 from Boston to Los Angeles
how is it my fault that they are not making any money?
I'm breaking any rules by expecting to get a decent services?

Decent Services= get be from point A to point B on time.
Don't lose my baggage.
If something goes wrong threat me with respect, don't tell me that I should no complain because I'm only paying $150 bucks.

we live in a capitalist society supply and demand set the prices the airlines are flighting for customers.

if one airline is making a profit charging $150 dollars and the others can't match that price, that's their problem. they should go out of business.

There is to much competition right now and some airlines will have to go out of business. after that I think that prices will stabilize again.

[pilot602]

Flyover ...

You can provide good customer service without "breaking the rules" or giving away the shop ... but people automatically assume because they can yell that they should get everything they want, when they want it.

Again .. refer to my "meal" example.

I'm not defending airlines they have A LOT of work to do in terms of customer service but in the same regard people need to realize that when it comes to "customer service" just because they can yell doesn't make them right.

[tonyw]

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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.

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I see. So then, Southwest should be losing money hand over fist, right? After all, if you whine too much to them, they tell where you can stick it.

Oh, wait! They made a boatload of money.

Business is about return on investment. If a customer costs more in investment than the return, screw 'em. Southwest understands this.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

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But the thing is that even if it costs money NOW to help satisfy a customer, it will likely save it in the long run. One bad experience and that person will tell 100 people, a good experience and they will tell 3 or 4 people. You don't need 100 people getting a bad opinion of your company. It might not be quite the same thing in this type of biz, but in most, it pays off for you more to keep one customer happy then it does to save your company dollars and let them tell 100 people how bad your company is.

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Exactly!! One disgruntled customer can do tremendous damage to a company's brand just by telling his friends (who will tell their friends) about his experience, no matter how unreasonable he may be. I once read a study which concluded that, on average, it costs about 3-5X as much to get a new customer as it does to retain an existing customer. It is worth it to keep the customer happy, even if he seems to you to be behaving unreasonably.

Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

MF

[Cachon]

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What I mean by this is that even if you know the customer is wrong (which often that's the case) in the services business you have to do everything that is humanly possible to accommodate and to keep that costumer happy.

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I see. So then, Southwest should be losing money hand over fist, right? After all, if you whine too much to them, they tell where you can stick it.

Oh, wait! They made a boatload of money.

Business is about return on investment. If a customer costs more in investment than the return, screw 'em. Southwest understands this.

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Did you read my last post?

[tonyw]

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Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

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Southwest has been around for what, 30 years now? They don't have a problem telling customers they're wrong, and where they can go.

I deal with clients, too, you know. I tell them when they are being unreasonable, and if they say, we'll never work with you again, I say fine, if that's the way you want to be. I can't give you what you are looking for, so it's better for you to just find someone who will.

Know what I get? Shocked silence, and I love it.

And then they very quickly retract their statement about never working with me again.

It's not like I don't have competition. It's just that I'd rather spend my time keeping my good customers happy instead of wasting it on a guy who will never be happy, who will whine and complain the live long day.

He can take his business elsewhere, because it's not worth the effort to keep.

[CaptainMatt]

I'm going to chime in, Just be forewarned this is how I see it.

People want cheap flights. In order for Airlines to do that they need to prioritize what they are going to offer the Passengers. You can't have a cheap flight and all the amenities. Things like lost baggage and being on-time/late. I think for the most part is out of the hands of the airlines. Things come up. You can pay a dirt cheap price but don't expect much if at all anything. They just might bring out the cattle prods while you are in the holding pen waiting to board. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Airlines listen to customers. Customers want cheap fairs so the airlines are giving it to them.

I think the only thing you should demand and expect is safety. I would pay more just for that. I wouldn't even care about amenities.

[kellwolf]

Tell ya what, guys. Work for Disney for a few years, then come back and say "the customer is alwasy right." I bet you won't be able to say it with a straight face. I too followed this mantra before I actually WORKED in customer service positions. Then I was hit with every scammer from here to China. About 5% of the complaints you get are legit, the rest are people looking for a free ride (this is theme parks, not CS in general). I've even bent over backwards, broken a couple of "rules" (trust me they were RULES), got called into a meeting for giving away too much and reprimanded, and the guy STILL said I was "unprofessional" and "unaccomodating." Why? 'Cause I couldn't get his ticket refunded or his hotel room comped. That's what this guy had his mind set to, and he would settle for nothing less. He was happy when he left me, but obviously changed his mind on the way out of the park.

Now, I agree that airlines have a LONG way to go in the realm of customer service. Most of that has to do with communication b/w departments (see other thread on darn near the exact subject). I also agree that $280 is a low fare, HOWEVER it's the fare the airline charged. The level of service should be no different for people that paid $500 or $280. I do NOT think that the price of a ticket should be a passenger's excuse though. Saying "I paid $280 for a ticket, and I deserve better service" doesn't cut it with me. How about "I trusted this airline to get me from point a to point b comfortably, and it fell short." That's a valid arguement. Otherwise it's the same as saying "I paid $1.50 for this bowl of soup, and it's not the same as the $5 bowl of soup over there."

[flyover]

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Flyover ...

You can provide good customer service without "breaking the rules" or giving away the shop ... but people automatically assume because they can yell that they should get everything they want, when they want it.

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I guess one of the things I don't understand is the general tone of most of this thread. In my experience airline customers are like most others. 98% are very reasonable people who respond well to being treated with respect. This in spite of the fact that travel is often stressful with vacation and business plans often riding on the airlines operating on schedule.

Most of the angry people I've had to deal with were sent to me by agents who specialized in pissing off customers. They are simply people with problems that no one will listen to. Listen to them for a little while and they are happy customers. What's so hard about that? Communicate with them well in the first place and you usually won't get to the point where you have to handle their anger.

I don't get the hostility towards customers. Without them all this talk about airline careers is moot. Maybe that's where this is coming from, with airline careers struggling we are looking to take it out on the customer, just like they look to take their frustrations out on us. Frustrated employees serving frustrated customers. Explosive combination. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif[/img]

[Cachon]

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Airlines listen to customers. Customers want cheap fairs so the airlines are giving it to them.

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That is total Bull S***t . [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

The airlines are lowering their prices because of competition.

If it was up to the airlines they will be charging the most they can get away with.

[Doug Taylor]

Can we all just agree on the idea of "You get what you pay for" and kinda move along? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I can only use examples from my own business. Running this website ain't cheap by any means, and in fact, it looks like I'm going to have to upgrade the server again very soon.

The costs and personal investment of running this website are well outside of the scope of "a friendly hobby to tinker with on off days" and it depends on advertising sales in order to stay solvent.

I tell advertisers, with a straight face, that my users come here for the straight poop with no spin from thousands of voices, many with differing opinions, and I don't accept ads from just any company because I can lose credibility in a New York minute.

Advertise here, you'll see results.

I charge accordingly because for every one ad that I accept for circulation on the site, there are probably five companies that I told to 'take a hike' or 'I know you're paying $X/month for that site over at http://www.tripod.com/savanna/Sunset...Page/index.htm (not a real site) but this ain't it and no don't ask me about your "pay-per-lead" program either because I can't walk into a pharmacy, grab some aspirin and promise to pay the druggist IF my headache is cured.'

It's a two-way street. If passengers are demanding mega low airfares, they're going to have to accept the occasional meltdown because it's goign to be a barebone skeleton crew and the entire chain of resources that it takes to run a fast, clean, on-time, rewarding operation takes loot.

If I want a $.49 chateaubriand steak, better prepare myself for some gristle.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

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Customers aren't always going to be right, but if you want to stay in business for the long term, you better figure out how to treat the customer as if he is always right.

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Southwest has been around for what, 30 years now? They don't have a problem telling customers they're wrong, and where they can go.

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I seriously doubt that Southwest makes a regular practice of telling its customers to go f@$& themselves. You can draw reasonable lines with people and still have them go away happy. You just have to be able to say "no" politely, with a smile; and be willing to offer constructive solutions. This is what Southwest seems to do well, and what many other carriers do not do well. As others have said, good communication is the key.

With respect to Pilot0602's hypothetical, I would ask which is preferable: (1) taking the risk that you are given a free meal to a jerk; or (2) taking the risk that you will alienate a good customer with a legitimate grievance by giving him or her the third degree regarding the complaint? A business which regularly tends toward option (2) will not be a business for very long.

MF

[pilot602]

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With respect to Pilot0602's hypothetical, I would ask which is preferable: (1) taking the risk that you are given a free meal to a jerk; or (2) taking the risk that you will alienate a good customer with a legitimate grievance by giving him or her the third degree regarding the complaint? A business which regularly tends toward option (2) will not be a business for very long.


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It wasn't a hypothetical I saw it happen night after night for three years. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] And you know what, two of the thre restaurants I worked for are out of business .... draw your own conclusions. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[TheWife]

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But we're not talking about a customer we're talking about a scammer ... that person that raised hell and got what they wanted is still going to go around telling the story about how bad things were and how much they had to complain to finally get what they wanted. That person is not goingto go around saying "oh, they did this for me ..."

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not talking about your one specific story, I am talking about in general. When I worked for Allstate, my boss told me right up front that I did NOT have to take abuse from any customer, that a customer that would go that far was not worth the business they would cause us to lose. BUT OTHER THAN THAT-it was my job to go out of my way, be as helpful as possible and do everything I can to make that customer walk out of my office feeling good about the people they chose to bring their business to. And I did it with a smile, remembering how frustrating it can be to be a consumer, espeically when you don't understand the "insides" of the business like an empolyee does. Our office's reputation for taking care of our customers far exceeded any complaints we had from the occasional abusive moran who would flip out over anything.

The thing is, when is the last time you got off a plane feeling like they really appreciated your business? For me, never. The last flight I was on, the FA looked at me like I'd asked her for a kidney, when all I asked for was a pillow. But I guess I should just suck it up and say it's my problem to deal with since I got a cheap price on my flight? It's not like I am going to write an angry letter to management, but I remember that attitude, and I remember the mess I was in when I was the one that had the missed connection.

Flying is a bigger deal then getting cold french fries with dinner. At least you can move on faster when you just go poor service some where else. But when you get the poor service on a flight, when you miss your flight and get stuck some where, it has a major impact on your entire schedule, your finances, your drop off/pick up arrangements, etc. and if you have kids with you and then you aren't allowed access to your luggage--well that's even worse! It is a HUGE ordeal to go through that! Sure it happens, and it's not always some one's fault. And I have never put up a big stink about it, but it's not easy to just walk away after being given a list of hotels you can stay at, at your expense, with no personal items, and not feel some resentment and frustration at the whole situation.

And before you say (again), that a person that travels should just expect something to go wrong and be responsible enough to prepare for it---let me remind you that there is no warning that you do not have access to luggage. I had NO idea, if I had, I would have carried personal items with me. Why don't they just give you some basic company guidelines or something when you buy your ticket? And I also had NO idea that you'd have to pay for your own food and hotel when you get stuck some where. So I guess it's my fault for travelling and not being prepared? Well--if you expect every flying customer to have the money to pay for a hotel and extra meals if needed, then you are going to lose a lot of customers. Some people just can not afford to cover those extra expenses, so now with what I know after having been through it, the next time I think of travelling, I just won't do it, unless I have an extra $100 to cover that "just in case" layover bill. If every one starts realizing that is how it is, airlines just might end up with even less customers. And that's not going to help any body.

[flyover]

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Can we all just agree on the idea of "You get what you pay for" and kinda move along? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I'll stand in firm opposition. First of all we are getting much more than we pay for with JC. You are growing because of it. Whatever your business model or plan is, you are offering a high quality product/service. There is lots of perceived value here.

As far as airlines: it's OK for customers to take a "get what you pay for" viewpoint. It is never OK for the employees or management to take that tack. There is only one rule for long term success in any business or industry; give the customer more than they pay for. Especially in a service industry, that doesn't mean spending a lot of money, it can be as simple as training your employees to have good communication skills or firing them if they don't. I have been in the industry for 30 years and I have never seen even that simple thing done. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[kellwolf]

Actually, here's a letter written by Herb to a chronic complainer who said that she will "never fly Southwest Airlines again."


Dear Ms. Crabapple,

We'll miss you.

Love,
Herb

This woman complained about everything, and even made a few CSAs in DAL cry. Finally Herb stepped in and told people to stop trying to make her happy as it was impossible. The whole story is in the books Nuts .

[Doug Taylor]

I forgot to add in that we've really got to look at the bigger picture in terms of the 'cultural shift' going on in America.

Remember, we're in an era of a entitlement-crazy, litigation-happy, something-for-nothing-and-can-I-have-two society.

Flight delayed? Heck, pick up the telephone and call the airline or your travel agent (unless you were too cheap to use one that'll answer the customer service line) and start looking at your options.

Any frequent flier knows this.

50 passengers standing around one gate agent during irregular operations and you're going to stand in line where you could have a seat, call the airline directly and rebook yourself in minutes? Could the author have not anticipated the scene earlier?

What are the chances that the author threw a big hissy fit in the gate area, threw around his press credentials to no avail and then embellished his story?

I dunno, but I'd like to hear USAir's (or whichever connection carrier) side of the story for a little balance.

My questions:

(a) Did he contact the airline prior to writing the article?
(b) Is this his first flight cancellation?
(c) Considering DCA has a substantial USAir operation, did the author try another gate agent/supervisors, or just stand in line miffed with a stenographers pad jotting down details?
(d) Did he try the reservations line or booking agent?

Granted, the author most likely got a raw deal and the situation was largely mishandled, it seems, by USAir, but take a charge of the situation and use the available resources.

Drop a carton of eggs on your tile at home? Don't complain about it, take charge, get it cleaned up before it solidifies, take care of business and then get upset. The worst thing I see in this country are people waiting for solutions to fall in their laps.

"Fat? It's not your fault, it's the carbohydrates!" (pshaw, right!)

"Sad? Take a Zoloft!"

"Angry? Call my law offices!"

"Late? It's not your failure to hit the freeway with ample time, it's traffic"

Ok ok ok, I'm on a rant, but I'm a believer in the school of thought that the term Personal Responsibility doesn't involve pointing fingers, it involves stabilizing the situation FIRST, and then trying to ascertain what went wrong SECOND.

[pilot602]

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And before you say (again), that a person that travels should just expect something to go wrong and be responsible enough to prepare for it---let me remind you that there is no warning that you do not have access to luggage.

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Please quote where I've said that in this thread ... infact I've said several times that the airlines have a long way to go in customer service. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[kellwolf]

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I guess one of the things I don't understand is the general tone of most of this thread. In my experience airline customers are like most others. 98% are very reasonable people who respond well to being treated with respect. This in spite of the fact that travel is often stressful with vacation and business plans often riding on the airlines operating on schedule.

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I guess I'm sorta biased since all of my experience is in Orlando. It might work differently in other places with the non-leisure crowd. While I agree a lot of customers just want their side of the story to be heard and be treated with respect, in my experience it's more like 60% of them. I have had very very few dealings with people operating on business trips. Almost ALL of my customer contact has been from families or vacationers.

[TheWife]

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And before you say (again), that a person that travels should just expect something to go wrong and be responsible enough to prepare for it---let me remind you that there is no warning that you do not have access to luggage.

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Please quote where I've said that in this thread ... infact I've said several times that the airlines have a long way to go in customer service. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, my first little paragraph was directed to your reply, but the rest was a "you" as in "you people on this website" lol. Should have clarified.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

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And you know what, two of the thre restaurants I worked for are out of business .... draw your own conclusions. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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You're bad for business?

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

[Doug Taylor]

Uhh, Boeing's better than airbus!

[kellwolf]

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and if you have kids with you and then you aren't allowed access to your luggage--well that's even worse!

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This is why I carry all the essentials in a carry-on. How many comedians make jokes about lost luggage? We're all aware that it happens, we just never expect it to happen to us. While it's technically not our fault when the airline looses our luggage, there are some intelligent things we can do to help ourselves out. Any medication you have, put it in the carry-on. I also carry an extra set of clothes in my carry-on just in case, along with my contact lens stuff and a toothbrush. The cel phone, my wallet and any tickets (including return trip tickets) are also in my carry-on. You'd be surprised how many people check their tickets in their luggage, then they need it when they get to security.

Now, that's all pretty easy if you don't have kids. You have an automatic carry-on in that diaper bag (I like the cool one that looks like a backpack if anyone wants to go to Babies R Us and buy it for me.....), so that limits you a bit. Make sure you've got some extra stuff in there, including a change of clothes for the baby. Put some snacks in a carry-on and a book or two. If your stranded in an airport, you gots to keep the kid entertained.

If you're doing a short overnight trip, put it ALL in a carry-on. Trust me, skipping baggage claim all together is worth the hassle.

[n77j]

Customers=$$$,so deal with it!Customers deserve to be treated with out most respect. Go tell your customers that you paid $150.00 for a round trip and we will treat you the way we want-i bet you won't make it through in any business.
There are those customers(minority) that are frustrated and sometimes need the attention of a security officer or police. That is beyond what anyone can do and don't mind losing those type of customers-and there are those customers(the majority) that are simply frustrated and get pissed off like any human-being. And those need better treatment and good solution to their problems. I worked in the airlines and 98% customers will always be understanding and nice to you-if you treat them the way they want to be treated.Last but not least-people in customer service should have the skills and patience!