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August 27th, 2004, 22:58
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#1 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
|  Crooked Charter Request
So, I'm manning the office last night, doing some ground with a student when a guy calls. "Hey, man, it's my girlfriend's birthday, and a buddy of mine said that we could fly her down to Chattanooga for dinner...what do I need to do for that?"
Well, Sir, that would be a charter, and I can't do that.
"Well, now, my buddy said that we could get around that if you give me some training on the way down and back. I got me $500 if we can do this..."
[thinking about the stack of late bills...]
Well, I'm sorry Sir, but we really can't do that. However, if you'd like to begin flight training, we may be able to do that sometime in the near future.
"Aw, naw, bud, that's alright...thanks anyway..."
Man, the temptation..... | 
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August 27th, 2004, 23:03
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#2 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP)
Posts: 9,986
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
Sounds like the man was checking up on you. Trying to bust someone. Good on you. | 
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August 27th, 2004, 23:04
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,101
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
Can you say "134.5"???
Certainly never did any of that myself. And certainly never had a buddy learn his way around YYZ by doing it in a Cutlass, either ... | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:05
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#4 | | Moderator
Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,100
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
And your caller ID (if you had one) might very well have shown the local FSDO's number.
Might be an urban legend, but I've heard enough stories about 'em fishing just that way, looking for what responses they'd get..... | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:08
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#5 | | Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
OK, it was me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:08
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#6 | | Moderator
Join Date: May 2003 Location: GRR
Posts: 8,100
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
OK, it was me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Told ya. The Fed's. | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:11
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#7 | | Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark
Posts: 6,897
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK, it was me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Told ya. The Fed's.
[/ QUOTE ]
USAF, checking up on his FBO.
Why? I don't know. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:20
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#8 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
OK, it was me. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I thought so.... | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:21
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#9 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
Can you say "134.5"???
[/ QUOTE ]
I know alot of folks around here that know 134.5 really well.... | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:54
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#10 | | Junior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 114
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
134.5 -> Are you reffering to an FAR number? If so, I can't find it at www.aopaflighttraining.org . | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:57
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#11 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
134.5 -> Are you reffering to an FAR number? If so, I can't find it at www.aopaflighttraining.org .
[/ QUOTE ]
You'll figure it out eventually... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Do you know what 135 is? | |
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August 27th, 2004, 23:59
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#12 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Eden Prairie, MN (KFCM) (KMSP)
Posts: 9,986
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
You'll figure it out eventually...
Do you know what 135 is?
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh that would Part 135 operations. That being CHARTER operations.
Am I right.??? | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:00
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#13 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You'll figure it out eventually...
Do you know what 135 is?
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh that would Part 135 operations. That being CHARTER operations.
Am I right.???
[/ QUOTE ]
That's it!
134.5 is not quite charter, but.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:10
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#14 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,405
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
Alright...I'll bite. What if a guy calls up and says he is a student pilot, wants to get some cross country dual, his girlfriend wants to come, and we're gonna stop and have dinner along the way.
I really don't see anything wrong with that.... | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:12
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#15 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande
Posts: 2,484
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
Alright...I'll bite. What if a guy calls up and says he is a student pilot, wants to get some cross country dual, his girlfriend wants to come, and we're gonna stop and have dinner along the way.
I really don't see anything wrong with that....
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't either, especially if the current student pilot is meeting part 61 regs for required dual x-country training. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:13
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#16 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia
Posts: 12,328
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
Alright...I'll bite. What if a guy calls up and says he is a student pilot, wants to get some cross country dual, his girlfriend wants to come, and we're gonna stop and have dinner along the way.
I really don't see anything wrong with that....
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with that at all. I'd do that one in a heartbeat. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:16
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#17 | | Junior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 114
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
ahhhh I get it- But not until I figured out what 135 was. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:52
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#18 | | Old Skool
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,706
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
You should have just made it into a "lesson" with his g/f on for the ride and then charge him the proper time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] | |
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August 28th, 2004, 00:57
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#19 | | Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 16,862
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
that's what the guy was trying to do Chris.. but technically, that's kinda illegal - isn't it guys?
edit! my bad.. sorry Chris! I went by the avatar - which was similar to brians old avatar! haha [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:04
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#20 | | Old Skool
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,706
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
brian?? Hes has not even posted yet.... lol I have more SA than Brian lol. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:06
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#21 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Socal
Posts: 5,628
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
You should have just made it into a "lesson" with his g/f on for the ride and then charge him the proper time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Mate that is what he was trying to do and is the grey area. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:16
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#22 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,405
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
It's all in the semantics of the first post. If the guy calls up for a quasi charter and then says he knows a way around the regs....I'd have warning flags popping up. Could be a set up. Let's say you agree to do the flight and want to stay out of trouble.
1) you must be giving dual instruction to a student pilot. What's a student pilot? Pre-solo, the guy doesn't even need a certificate or anything....so I say a student pilot is anyone you wanna call a student pilot. That's easy enough...
2) what regs does a guy need to meet to accept instruction on a cross country? none that I can think of. Why couldn't you take a first time student on a X-C instead of doing slow flight? Heck...show them slow flight during the cross country...
3) nothing illegal about where you go or who might be in the back seat. Unless it's a 150... | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:17
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#23 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande
Posts: 2,484
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should have just made it into a "lesson" with his g/f on for the ride and then charge him the proper time! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
[/ QUOTE ]
Mate that is what he was trying to do and is the grey area.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is nothing grey about this, it is illegal. The FSDO would have a hay day with mtsu if he decided to do this. From the information he gave us, this guy wasn't a previous student so if mtsu would have done this and got caught, he would have been screwed. | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:19
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#24 | | Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 16,862
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
so, let me get this straight... a student pilot, learning to fly, can take the girlfriend up.... but a guy who calls and offers to take a lesson but also wants to take the girlfriend is considered illegal right?
where's the line between it being legal vs illegal? | |
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August 28th, 2004, 01:25
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#25 | | Old Skool
Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: El Forko Grande
Posts: 2,484
| Re: Crooked Charter Request
[ QUOTE ]
so, let me get this straight... a student pilot, learning to fly, can take the girlfriend up.... but a guy who calls and offers to take a lesson but also wants to take the girlfriend is considered illegal right?
where's the line between it being legal vs illegal?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have looked at a few cases in my aviation law class and a flight instructor was busted for something similar to this (taking a local sheriff to see his ill wife). The FAA looked at it and said the sheriff was in no condition to fly (emotionally distraught), wasn't a student pilot, and had no reason to make that flight besides to see his wife.
If a student pilot wants to fly his girlfriend to go eat somewhere while fullfilling part 61 requirements for a certificate, the FAA shouldn't have a problem. | |
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