Navy jet rolls into S.D. Bay on landing - Page 2

Windchill · August 27th, 2004, 13:46

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Taht was by far the best 6 months I could recall (outside of marriage and kids).

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Glad to hear the six month cruise turned out to be an enjoyable experience for ya.

MikeD · August 27th, 2004, 13:50

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I am in no way questioning a Navy pilot, but I wonder at what point you realize the brakes are not working and make the decision to 1, go around or 2, decide to eject. Like you said, good thing he is okay.

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Maybe Mikey D will pop up here, but you don't jump on the brakes in a fighter until fairly late in the landing roll. In the F-16, for instance, you touch down somewhere around 140 KIAS and hold an 11 degree nose up attitude as long as possible for aerodynamic braking. As the horizontal stabilator loses its effectiveness the nose comes down of its own accord. Only then does the pilot get on the brakes, and on a short runway (7500' is short for a fighter), this may be well past the runway's mid-point, and also past the point where the pilot may reject the landing.

(Fine point here: a "go around" implies you're still airborne and you opt to discontinue the approach; a "rejected landing" implies that you've touched down already but things ain't working out and so you opt to take off again rather than risk continuing the roll-out.)

Military runways, however have cables stretched across both ends of a runway that lie beneath a trap door of sorts but can be raised rapidly by the tower when the pilot calls out "CABLE CABLE CABLE", allowing him/her to drop the aircraft's tailhook and arrest the landing roll that way.

So, my guess is that the Hornet driver was past the point where he could safely reject the landing when he learned he had no brakes. Now, why he didn't call for the departure end cables to be raised (or why the tower failed to do so) is a mystery and will probably be a focal point of the investigation.

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Additionally, most arresting gear at naval installations are the above ground type supported by rubber donuts. You'll still make the "Cable" call as advisory to the tower. At fields with barriers (vice cables) that can be raised, you'd call BARRIER three times in order to recover into that if need be.

FOD · August 27th, 2004, 13:52

I just know what i gathered from my roomate who's ATC down there on the island...he wasnt working last night, he didnt know anything about the incident until i said something.... what i gathered from him was that those guys dont come in there to often unless they are low on fuel, not that it has anything to do with the brakes...i was just throwing it out there as a reason why the pilot decided to eject then to go around.

MikeD · August 27th, 2004, 14:16

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I just know what i gathered from my roomate who's ATC down there on the island...he wasnt working last night, he didnt know anything about the incident until i said something.... what i gathered from him was that those guys dont come in there to often unless they are low on fuel, not that it has anything to do with the brakes...i was just throwing it out there as a reason why the pilot decided to eject then to go around.

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Generally, NAS North Island is used as a "blue water divert" for carriers working off the coast of San Diego. NOLF San Clemente is another one. North Island doesn't get much fighter traffic being primarily an ASW and transport base.

MikeD · August 27th, 2004, 14:20

Looking at the airport diagram, the field has a pair of E-28 cables on each runway (BAK-12 equivilient), and no barriers. Where they're located on the runway (about 2000'-2500' from the departure ends), he could conceivably been past them when he may have decided he needed to drop his hook, or if he did drop his hook, the hook could'ce conceivably "skipped" over the cable due to ruts in the runway, centerline striping, etc.....a common occurance. At this field, there's not another set of cables (or a barrier) at the departure end to use as a secondary stopping assist.

Again, not being a primary fighter base, North Island has only basic runway arrestment systems, versus the redundnacy of equipment a base with stationed fighter aircraft would have.

Grumpy01 · August 27th, 2004, 15:26

Brian to answer your question. YES Used to do it all the time at Salina Ks.

The wind blows like hell there and landing across the runway in a 172 was approved if you requested it during the periods of very strong wind. When I say strong I mean in the 40 -50 kt range and a direct cross.

Less than that and you could keep it on the runway by landing on the upwind side. 300 ft gave a lot of room to drift. It would tend to eat tires tho.

You would also be asked if you wanted wing walkers for the taxi in. [ this from Flower Aviation} The ones with the girls in tight shorts, They would come out and hold down the wing so the A/C didn't do strange things on the ground.

Most of the time I would land so as to taxi on to a taxi way if I were not stopped prior to the R/W edge.

I would not recommend it as a"normal" procedure tho.

tonyw · August 27th, 2004, 17:17

Did he get out of the plane with a big banner that said "Mission Accomplished?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Joke, people. Joke! It's quitting time and I am slap happy!

MikeD · August 27th, 2004, 17:31

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Did he get out of the plane with a big banner that said "Mission Accomplished?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Joke, people. Joke! It's quitting time and I am slap happy!

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That's just wrong..........so wrong......... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

SteveC · August 27th, 2004, 17:47

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Speaking of huge runways, KVPS/Ft. Walton/Eglin AFB has a very wide runway as well. It's freaky because you're flying the visual and you feel like you're a lot lower than the aircraft actually is.

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And then you go someplace out in the middle of nowhere, like Marquette, Michigan (in the Upper Penninsula), and land on a runway that's 12,370 feet long x 150 feet wide. In real life, though, the runway is 300 feet wide, they just moved the lights in to 150 feet so the perspective is right (at least at night). SAW is a former B-51 base, now converted to civilian use. I flew into it while they were converting it (by moving the lights in), and they would shut 1/2 the runway (lengthwise) and work on it, then switch and do the other half. What a view. It fools you when you are a long ways out, since the proportions (12,370 x 300) look about right for a standard width 6,000 foot runway. It's only when you get closer that you say "holy cow, that's a big runway"!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

MikeD · August 27th, 2004, 17:49

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Speaking of huge runways, KVPS/Ft. Walton/Eglin AFB has a very wide runway as well. It's freaky because you're flying the visual and you feel like you're a lot lower than the aircraft actually is.

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And then you go someplace out in the middle of nowhere, like Marquette, Michigan (in the Upper Penninsula), and land on a runway that's 12,370 feet long x 150 feet wide. In real life, though, the runway is 300 feet wide, they just moved the lights in to 150 feet so the perspective is right (at least at night). SAW is a former B-51 base, now converted to civilian use. I flew into it while they were converting it (by moving the lights in), and they would shut 1/2 the runway (lengthwise) and work on it, then switch and do the other half. What a view. It fools you when you are a long ways out, since the proportions (12,370 x 300) look about right for a standard width 6,000 foot runway. It's only when you get closer that you say "holy cow, that's a big runway"!

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Ole KI Sawyer AFB. They shoulda just left the 300' wide SAC runway. It's not that hard to adapt! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

JC1188 · August 27th, 2004, 17:52

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I can't go outside. It's still 3rd period.

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WWHHAT! We don't start school until the 7th of September, and one of my friends starts the 14th.

H46Bubba · August 27th, 2004, 18:18

NASNI gets a decent amount of fighter traffic during carrier quals and COMPTUEX which the Nimitz BG is doing now. They usually come in due to weather or fuel issues. The F-14's fly in from Oceana before they fly out to the ship. The runways are quite wide.

flyover · August 27th, 2004, 20:38

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Did he get out of the plane with a big banner that said "Mission Accomplished?"

Sorry, couldn't resist. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Joke, people. Joke! It's quitting time and I am slap happy!

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No but he did stub his toe on the way out and is applying for a purple heart. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MarineNav · August 28th, 2004, 03:28

Are you sure he was hit by rice shrapnel? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

JR

eodfe · August 29th, 2004, 12:27

Denver International: 16R/34L 16000 X 200 feet. How many stop and goes you think a Cessna can do on that one? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]