Two plane crashes in Russia...

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I've always strongly believed that if the wackos attempt another hijacking, it isn't going to be turban-wearing Arabs, it's going to be blonde-haired, blue-eyed eastern Europeans that you'd never suspect in a million years.

Kind of like staging a robbery at a bank. I'm not going to walk in looking like the last guy who robbed the bank, I'm going to walk in looking like John Q. Public so I can easily slip in and slip out with the loot.

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Hope you are right. But I'm having trouble understaning why they would need to do this. If I understand you and Tonyw correctly there should be absolutely no profiling. This seems consistent with the TSA policy. And after all the discussion on the NWA thread I thought the idea was that anybody that got shook about the onboard behavior of a group of arab men were just idiots. So I'm wondering why they would need to worry about profiling? Haven't we unilaterally disarmed ouselves on that issue? I mean they hate the liberty we have and the tolerance we exhibit and consider these to be major exploitable failings. They think their "kill them all and let Allah sort it out" philosophy is the smart way to play it.

And as far as "easlily slipping out" I suppose that would be OK if they didn't actually want to end up in as many small pieces as their victims.

[Doug Taylor]

I'm not sure if profiling would be 100% effective.

As a person who has been 'profiled' when living in certain parts of the country, I've experienced clerks following me around stores when there is shoplifting going around.

Young middle eastern men are the obvious choice, but simply profiling that demographic and ignoring all others is leaving the gate wide open for a red-haired, freckle-faced Irish-looking gentleman who's got IRA ties with a carry on full of C-4 open for the "Al Quada Long Pass".

[tonyw]

There shouldn't be profiling because it won't be effective. They know we're looking hard at Arabic men, so as Tom Ridge said, we do not have the luxury of doing profiling anymore.

They'll find someone else to do their dirty work. And they can. Look, it's not all dark skinned Arabic men in Gitmo. Think about it. John Walker Lindh, Jose Padilla, David Hicks, and a couple of Brits. What do they all have in common other than their al Qaeda connections?

None of them are dark skinned Arabs.

[Doug Taylor]

And they're not going to have large breasts. Lord knows how the TSA loves making large-breasted passengers 'designees' [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I'm not sure if profiling would be 100% effective.

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I'm actually pretty sure that profiling would not be 100% effective. My problem is with not including it as part of an overall strategy. One thing for sure if al Queda does stop using olive skinned arab men they will have thinned their numbers significantly. That's got to help, so I hope you are right.

BTW I'm still betting that TSA does more profiling than they will admit and that there were FAMs on the NWA flight because the Syrians were onboard.

I give. I'm shifting my surveilance activites to blonde-haired, blue-eyed females. When my wife asks what I'm looking at I'll tell her I'm watching for terrorists. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[kellwolf]

My theory (for what it's worth) is if we DO start profiling, the terrorist groups are sure gonna know about it. Then they're going to take the "David Copperfield approach." Basically, they'll send a team of a stereotypical person the KNOW will get profiled and selected with a WASP. Guess who's NOT packing.

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My theory (for what it's worth) is if we DO start profiling, the terrorist groups are sure gonna know about it. Then they're going to take the "David Copperfield approach." Basically, they'll send a team of a stereotypical person the KNOW will get profiled and selected with a WASP. Guess who's NOT packing.

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You give these guys more credit for being able to recruit "WASPs" than I do. The guys involved in 9/11 were long term projects. It takes a lot of indoctrination to get someone to the suicide/bomber point.

I hope they do start the transition away from arab/muslims and toward somebody else. (Although I still can't see why they would need to). It will take years and open them up tremendously to detection.

[tonyw]

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I hope they do start the transition away from arab/muslims and toward somebody else.

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David Hicks. Jose Padilla. John Walker Lindh.

That's three for starters.

It only took 19 for September 11.

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My favorite "bimbo" Annie Jacobsen is on the story in Russia. Go girl!

http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/...;articleid=748

[Doug Taylor]

Would someone send her some snack mix already, sheesh! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[tonyw]

Not even going to bother with her.

I wonder if she is still worried about those 14 Syrian men now that we've found out that three Chechen WOMEN carried out these suicide attacks.

Oh, yeah. Chechen women, at least as far as I know, aren't considered "middle Eastern men." So I wonder, does she want to profile white women, too now?

Doug, you were right! Now they're using blonde haired, blue eyed women!

[Minnesota_Flyer]

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Not even going to bother with her.

I wonder if she is still worried about those 14 Syrian men now that we've found out that three Chechen WOMEN carried out these suicide attacks.

Oh, yeah. Chechen women, at least as far as I know, aren't considered "middle Eastern men." So I wonder, does she want to profile white women, too now?

Doug, you were right! Now they're using blonde haired, blue eyed women!

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Doubtful. It's been my experience that the supporters of profiling are very rarely members of the group they would seek to profile.

MF

[Doug Taylor]

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Doug, you were right! Now they're using blonde haired, blue eyed women!

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And if (when?) the WWS author gets profiled because she's perhaps a widowed blonde-haired/blue-eyed female getting on a jet, we'll see round two of "Hell hath no fury as a scorned member of the press"

Lookit my nose! I'm more German-Swabian than I am Chechen-featured!

[flyover]

You guys crack me up. For what it's worth she is pointing out in her article that the Russian authorites are saying the bombs exploded in the lavs. That is interesting to me as bringing bomb parts on board and assembling them in the lav is definitely a scenario that TSA has been concerned about.

BTW. Annie has dark hair, brown eyes.

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Oh, yeah. Chechen women, at least as far as I know, aren't considered "middle Eastern men." So I wonder, does she want to profile white women, too now?

Doug, you were right! Now they're using blonde haired, blue eyed women!

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This is quite amazing. Chechen Islamic terrorists told Russia they were going to attack them before the election. Then Chechen Islamic terrorists took two airliners out of the sky simultaneously, killing all on board. Female suicide bombers, called "Black Widows", are a typical tactic of Chechen Islamic terrorists. So two lone Chechen females boarded these flights, apparently without any particular security scrutiny and blew them up.

OK, you've convinced me. After this incident I can see that suicide terrorists could just be anybody at random and that any profiling based on nationality or other matters is a waste of time. Don't know why I didn't see it sooner.

[tonyw]

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So two lone Chechen females boarded these flights, apparently without any particular security scrutiny and blew them up.

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Okay, so tell me. What particular characteristics would Chechen females that are Muslim extremists have that other Chechen women don't?

Do they have big tatoos on their foreheads that say "terrorist" in Russian, English, and Arabic?

Jacobsen talking about security is like me talking about flying a 747. She doesn't know squat about it, yet she is portraying herself as an expert on the topic. She knows more, after all, than the FBI, TSA, INS and air marshalls combined, because she knows and they don't that the 14 Syrians were terrorists.

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Okay, so tell me. What particular characteristics would Chechen females that are Muslim extremists have that other Chechen women don't?

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The authorites said they had Chechen passports. Look, I'm not going to defend Russian aviation security. It probably sucks. But I thought the whole argument against profiling was that the terrorists were going to mix it up to keep everyone guessing.

Apparently lone female suicide bombers is a primary tactic of the group that warned Russia they were going to hit them. Then they used lone female suicide bombers. How is this an argument against profiling? When are they going to start getting tricky to take us off the trail? Why would they need to?

OK, I know the argument is that they will change up tactics to avoid detection. I'm sure you are correct and the attacks in Russia will be the last that fall into a profilable pattern.

Like I said above, these attacks and your cogent arguments have convinced me. They are just too smart to try it again.

[tonyw]

Well, apparently, you don't believe Tom Ridge, either, huh? What did he say about not having the luxury of profiling?

Now, seeing how he's the head of homeland security, if he isn't good enough for you, who is?

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Well, apparently, you don't believe Tom Ridge, either, huh? What did he say about not having the luxury of profiling?

Now, seeing how he's the head of homeland security, if he isn't good enough for you, who is?

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I have major problems with homeland security, especially as it relates to aviation security. I don't know too many professional aviators that don't. Do I think TSA doesn't profile? No I think they do and I think that is why there were FAMs on the NWA flight with the Syrians.

I already told you I'm not to big on trusting bureaucrats. Let me see, I think I'll trust.........my own opinion.