Watching sheep to the slaughter - Page 5

WillNotFly4Food · August 24th, 2004, 17:16

This thread helps how?

Just bringing levity to the thread, not directed at anyone. Just about this topic in general.

Thanks for the concern though.

Windchill · August 24th, 2004, 17:16

[ QUOTE ]
And your post helps how WillFly4Food ?

[/ QUOTE ]

it helps brighten my day because his avatar is Stewie from "The Family Guy" and I love Stewie.

August 24th, 2004, 17:17

No, it actually makes no sense to post that at all.

tonyw · August 24th, 2004, 17:19

Brian, what you're talking about doing is like what the dudes in Bangalore are doing to our computer programmers. They're being used as the tools of the guys who make 400 times what their average workers use.

When the people working for XYZ airlines say, you know, I'm not making a living wage, you need to pay me more, the CEO just turns around and says, well, I've got a guy who's willing to do this for $8 an hour. Take my crappy pay or I'll give him the job.

Do you want to be that tool? Do you want to be that man who has so little pride that he'll shaft someone for less money than he could make working in a retail store?

If you do want to be that person, I suggest that you work on your self esteem, because it's lacking big time.

TheWife · August 24th, 2004, 17:20

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing your son is around 2 years old (or less)... These "kids" are old enough to read, write and understand what we are telling them, but yet still refuse to understand the long term consequences of the subject... The reason your sub-2 year old son doesn't understand is mostly a language barrier, here there is no language barrier...

[/ QUOTE ] It's not a language thing, it's a comprehension thing. He comprehends things that are far more advanced then forward and reverse so it baffles me why he can't get this one. But some times, some things just don't click in a person's head. Even as an adult there are things that easily make sense to one person and not the other. I just don't see that as any reason to be mean. It's not like any one here said "Screw all you old farts, you don't know what you are talking about and I'm going do what I want." Brian is just asking questions because he is trying to understand, not because he's trying to be defiant.

I did notice though FC that your following posts have calmed down and been more explanitory then instulting and I appreciate that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Betabry · August 24th, 2004, 17:21

Here's some facts
http://www.gulfstreamacademy.com/fir...stofficer.html
Log More Than 280 Hours Of Airline Quality Flight Training For Less Than $72 Per Hour

doing the math there that works out to you paying $20160

although *After receiving $2,000 in flight pay, program cost is just $27,684

The overall program is expected to take approximately seven months to complete.

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pay_rates/mesa.html

Mesa B-1900 First Officer $18.15 x 70 hours gtd + per diem of 1.15hr works out to per bid earnings of $1270.5 or a 7 month total of $8893.50

in both examples you are doing the exact same thing, acting SIC on a B-1900.

using those two facts it's clear to see who benefits from which scenario, that is a difference of $29053.50.
that's 29k less the gulfstream FO has than the Mesa FO
it's also 29k that gulfstream saved over Mesa.

I used the 20160 number as that is what Gulfstream advertises as the cost of the hours and assuming the remainder of the 27k is for the 121 training since I wasn't able to find out if Mesa makes you pay for your training with them.

the question as to weather or not Mesa pays enough is for an entirely different thread, just illustrating why PFT is bad using some facts for Matt

FalconCapt · August 24th, 2004, 17:23

[ QUOTE ]
But even with your ratings, why wouldn't you want B1900D time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Using this same logic, when you are done with the B1900D, are you going to go over to Continental Express and pay them to fly a CRJ???

Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want CRJ time???

When you are done with the CRJ, are you going to go pay Delta to fly an MD-88 for them???

Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want MD-88 time???

And when you are done with the MD-88, are you going to go over to Continental and pay them to fly a B757???

Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want B757 time???

And when you are done with the B757, are you going to go to American and pay to fly their B777???

Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want B777 time???

When does it stop??? The paying should stop when you have the reuired ratings to get hired as a Pilot (basically your Commercial and your CFI certificates)

NOW do you understand???

eeg · August 24th, 2004, 17:24

[ QUOTE ]
But even with your ratings, why wouldn't you want B1900D time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Put it this way Brian...

If you could rent a B1900 just like you rent a Cessna 150 for $8 an hour, with NO PASSENGERS/CARGO in the back. Go for it, That's a dream deal.

But if that B1900 airline wants you to pay them to train you in their airplane, and act as an employee for whatever amount of hours and actually carry pax/cargo for them, while they pay you crap money, that is NOOO GOOOOD!!

FalconCapt · August 24th, 2004, 17:25

[ QUOTE ]
I did notice though FC that your following posts have calmed down and been more explanitory then instulting and I appreciate that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because my head hurts from banging it on my desk... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

USMCmech · August 24th, 2004, 17:31

It's official, we have a flame war! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif[/img]

75% of the users & lurkers are looking at this thread. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

FalconCapt · August 24th, 2004, 17:34

[ QUOTE ]
It's official, we have a flame war! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif[/img]

75% of the users & lurkers are looking at this thread. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is 22 out of 62 total, which is about 35.5%... But who's counting??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img]

Windchill · August 24th, 2004, 17:34

vote Bush/Cheney [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sorry, couldn't resist, especially after hearing just about EVERYONE is watching this.

Windchill · August 24th, 2004, 17:35

GREAT, so it's NOT just about everyone . . . thanks for the misinformation . . . might as well call you Mr. CIA [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

eeg · August 24th, 2004, 17:35

[ QUOTE ]

That's because my head hurts from banging it on my desk... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

watch it, you can loose your medical that way [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

MQAAord · August 24th, 2004, 17:38

Since we've beat the PFT thing to death many times now, here's a dancing elephant:

August 24th, 2004, 17:42

I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

sbe · August 24th, 2004, 17:52

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably like this:

"Did you read that PFT/Gulfstream thread a couple weeks back?"
"Oh good God. Hey, would you get me another beer?"

Sarah

EatSleepFly · August 24th, 2004, 17:56

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

[/ QUOTE ]

There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure.

God, let this thread die already.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:58

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

[/ QUOTE ]

There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure.

God, let this thread die already.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be so sure?

EatSleepFly · August 24th, 2004, 18:02

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be so sure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me.

Anyways, I'm going to show myself out of this thread and go have a chat with the cat. I'm sure it'll be more productive. He understands. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

rausda27 · August 24th, 2004, 18:03

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

[/ QUOTE ]

There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure.

God, let this thread die already.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be so sure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you wont be there...sorry had to ...

Continue.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

pilot602 · August 24th, 2004, 18:06

Let's try this ...

PFT (more correctly termed PFJ) is the equvalent to kicking kittens. EVERYONE knows kicking kittens is bad. THERFORE PFT/PFJ is BAD.

PFT/PFJ = Kicking Kittens. Kicking kittens = bad. PFT/PFJ = bad.

[/publicserviceannouncement]

rausda27 · August 24th, 2004, 18:08

But if you get paid for kicking kittens is it still bad? If you paid me $8 an hour to kick kittens it would be worth it, becasue I need all the kitten kicking time I can get...

August 24th, 2004, 18:09

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

[/ QUOTE ]

There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure.

God, let this thread die already.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be so sure?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you wont be there...sorry had to ...

Continue.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I know someone would respond that way.

August 24th, 2004, 18:10

[ QUOTE ]
But if you get paid for kicking kittens is it still bad? If you paid me $8 an hour to kick kittens it would be worth it, becasue I need all the kitten kicking time I can get...

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that is a stupid ass comment. You can't compare that to my replies.

August 24th, 2004, 17:16	#101
WillNotFly4Food Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: SGU via SLC Posts: 420	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter This thread helps how? Just bringing levity to the thread, not directed at anyone. Just about this topic in general. Thanks for the concern though.

August 24th, 2004, 17:16	#102
Windchill Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mid-Atlantic, KMRB Posts: 1,925	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] And your post helps how WillFly4Food ? [/ QUOTE ] it helps brighten my day because his avatar is Stewie from "The Family Guy" and I love Stewie.

August 24th, 2004, 17:17	#103
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter No, it actually makes no sense to post that at all.

August 24th, 2004, 17:19	#104
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,124	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter Brian, what you're talking about doing is like what the dudes in Bangalore are doing to our computer programmers. They're being used as the tools of the guys who make 400 times what their average workers use. When the people working for XYZ airlines say, you know, I'm not making a living wage, you need to pay me more, the CEO just turns around and says, well, I've got a guy who's willing to do this for $8 an hour. Take my crappy pay or I'll give him the job. Do you want to be that tool? Do you want to be that man who has so little pride that he'll shaft someone for less money than he could make working in a retail store? If you do want to be that person, I suggest that you work on your self esteem, because it's lacking big time.

August 24th, 2004, 17:20	#105
TheWife Old Skool Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Utah Posts: 4,161	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] I'm guessing your son is around 2 years old (or less)... These "kids" are old enough to read, write and understand what we are telling them, but yet still refuse to understand the long term consequences of the subject... The reason your sub-2 year old son doesn't understand is mostly a language barrier, here there is no language barrier... [/ QUOTE ] It's not a language thing, it's a comprehension thing. He comprehends things that are far more advanced then forward and reverse so it baffles me why he can't get this one. But some times, some things just don't click in a person's head. Even as an adult there are things that easily make sense to one person and not the other. I just don't see that as any reason to be mean. It's not like any one here said "Screw all you old farts, you don't know what you are talking about and I'm going do what I want." Brian is just asking questions because he is trying to understand, not because he's trying to be defiant. I did notice though FC that your following posts have calmed down and been more explanitory then instulting and I appreciate that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:21	#106
Betabry Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 55	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter Here's some facts http://www.gulfstreamacademy.com/fir...stofficer.html Log More Than 280 Hours Of Airline Quality Flight Training For Less Than $72 Per Hour doing the math there that works out to you paying $20160 although *After receiving $2,000 in flight pay, program cost is just $27,684 The overall program is expected to take approximately seven months to complete. http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pay_rates/mesa.html Mesa B-1900 First Officer $18.15 x 70 hours gtd + per diem of 1.15hr works out to per bid earnings of $1270.5 or a 7 month total of $8893.50 in both examples you are doing the exact same thing, acting SIC on a B-1900. using those two facts it's clear to see who benefits from which scenario, that is a difference of $29053.50. that's 29k less the gulfstream FO has than the Mesa FO it's also 29k that gulfstream saved over Mesa. I used the 20160 number as that is what Gulfstream advertises as the cost of the hours and assuming the remainder of the 27k is for the 121 training since I wasn't able to find out if Mesa makes you pay for your training with them. the question as to weather or not Mesa pays enough is for an entirely different thread, just illustrating why PFT is bad using some facts for Matt

August 24th, 2004, 17:23	#107
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] But even with your ratings, why wouldn't you want B1900D time? [/ QUOTE ] Using this same logic, when you are done with the B1900D, are you going to go over to Continental Express and pay them to fly a CRJ??? Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want CRJ time??? When you are done with the CRJ, are you going to go pay Delta to fly an MD-88 for them??? Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want MD-88 time??? And when you are done with the MD-88, are you going to go over to Continental and pay them to fly a B757??? Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want B757 time??? And when you are done with the B757, are you going to go to American and pay to fly their B777??? Of course you are, because why wouldn't you want B777 time??? When does it stop??? The paying should stop when you have the reuired ratings to get hired as a Pilot (basically your Commercial and your CFI certificates) NOW do you understand???

August 24th, 2004, 17:24	#108
eeg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Fo\' Laudydaudy, FL. Posts: 235	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] But even with your ratings, why wouldn't you want B1900D time? [/ QUOTE ] Put it this way Brian... If you could rent a B1900 just like you rent a Cessna 150 for $8 an hour, with NO PASSENGERS/CARGO in the back. Go for it, That's a dream deal. But if that B1900 airline wants you to pay them to train you in their airplane, and act as an employee for whatever amount of hours and actually carry pax/cargo for them, while they pay you crap money, that is NOOO GOOOOD!!

August 24th, 2004, 17:25	#109
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] I did notice though FC that your following posts have calmed down and been more explanitory then instulting and I appreciate that. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] That's because my head hurts from banging it on my desk... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:31	#110
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,557	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter It's official, we have a flame war! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif[/img] 75% of the users & lurkers are looking at this thread. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:34	#111
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] It's official, we have a flame war! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/argue.gif[/img] 75% of the users & lurkers are looking at this thread. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Actually it is 22 out of 62 total, which is about 35.5%... But who's counting??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/spin2.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:34	#112
Windchill Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mid-Atlantic, KMRB Posts: 1,925	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter vote Bush/Cheney [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Sorry, couldn't resist, especially after hearing just about EVERYONE is watching this.

August 24th, 2004, 17:35	#113
Windchill Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mid-Atlantic, KMRB Posts: 1,925	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter GREAT, so it's NOT just about everyone . . . thanks for the misinformation . . . might as well call you Mr. CIA [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:35	#114
eeg Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Fo\' Laudydaudy, FL. Posts: 235	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] That's because my head hurts from banging it on my desk... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] watch it, you can loose your medical that way [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:38	#115
MQAAord Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The Looney Bin Posts: 8,791	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter Since we've beat the PFT thing to death many times now, here's a dancing elephant:

August 24th, 2004, 17:42	#116
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC.

August 24th, 2004, 17:52	#117
sbe Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KC Posts: 540	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC. [/ QUOTE ] Probably like this: "Did you read that PFT/Gulfstream thread a couple weeks back?" "Oh good God. Hey, would you get me another beer?" Sarah

August 24th, 2004, 17:56	#118
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC. [/ QUOTE ] There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure. God, let this thread die already. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 17:58	#119
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC. [/ QUOTE ] There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure. God, let this thread die already. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] How can you be so sure?

August 24th, 2004, 18:02	#120
EatSleepFly Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: ?? Posts: 4,600	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] How can you be so sure? [/ QUOTE ] Trust me. Anyways, I'm going to show myself out of this thread and go have a chat with the cat. I'm sure it'll be more productive. He understands. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 18:03	#121
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,230	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC. [/ QUOTE ] There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure. God, let this thread die already. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] How can you be so sure? [/ QUOTE ] Because you wont be there...sorry had to ... Continue.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

August 24th, 2004, 18:06	#122
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter Let's try this ... PFT (more correctly termed PFJ) is the equvalent to kicking kittens. EVERYONE knows kicking kittens is bad. THERFORE PFT/PFJ is BAD. PFT/PFJ = Kicking Kittens. Kicking kittens = bad. PFT/PFJ = bad. [/publicserviceannouncement]

August 24th, 2004, 18:08	#123
rausda27 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,230	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter But if you get paid for kicking kittens is it still bad? If you paid me $8 an hour to kick kittens it would be worth it, becasue I need all the kitten kicking time I can get...

August 24th, 2004, 18:09	#124
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I wonder how these discussions will go at NetWork JC. [/ QUOTE ] There won't be such silly discussion there, I'm sure. God, let this thread die already. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] How can you be so sure? [/ QUOTE ] Because you wont be there...sorry had to ... Continue.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I know someone would respond that way.

August 24th, 2004, 18:10	#125
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Watching sheep to the slaughter [ QUOTE ] But if you get paid for kicking kittens is it still bad? If you paid me $8 an hour to kick kittens it would be worth it, becasue I need all the kitten kicking time I can get... [/ QUOTE ] Now that is a stupid ass comment. You can't compare that to my replies.

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