elusive ratings

C310_pilot · August 21st, 2004, 21:56

I am looking for opinions.

I have been flying for about three years and have been slowly getting my ratings. I now have PPLI, PMEL, and 334 hrs of which 124 are multi. I was attempting to get my CMEL with my instrument add on last Sept but over the course of my training I have been plagued with scheduling and mechanical problems. My eventual goal was to get my CFI, MEI, CFII but this FBO stuff is taking for ever. They now raised the price of the P.O.S. airplane to 250 an hr to boot.

As I see it I need five ratings still and I think I have two options.

1. Find someplace that has a reliable twin to finish my CMEL with an instrument add on, then go fly a 172 for my CSEL, then take the ATP flight instructor course or something similar.

2. Suck it up and take the entire ATP course and reap the benefit of more instruction and an additional 190 hrs of multi bring my TT multi to 314 in 90 days.

I started looking at my year-to-date expenses and I could have paid for the course and then some with what I have spent so far. I could possibly be working for an airline by now if I started an accelerated program 3 years ago. What do you guys think? Does any one know of a place that can get me that commercial expeditiously? ATP said they wouldn’t do it. I also talked to the guy at SkyMates and that looks like my best option right now.

In a nut shell, I am tired of spending money and I want results!

mastermags · August 21st, 2004, 22:11

You have 120 multi and are actually considering laying down 30 grand for ATP's course... no way man, that's for no timers, you are way ahead of the game. Just find a twin, get your CMEL and CSEL in a 172 or something, and go find a place to give you your instructor ratings. No use spending 3 times as much.

jonnyb · August 21st, 2004, 22:36

Are you training in a C310? If so, that's part of your problem right there. That's not necassary. Go somewhere else where they have a Seminole, Seneca, Dutchess etc. and finish up what you need to. Why in the world are you training in a $250/hr. airplane when money seems to be of concern (which it should)? You should easily be able to find one of the other twins for $120-175/hr. Doing the ATP thing would be foolish in my opinion. Just some advice. Good luck! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

C310_pilot · August 21st, 2004, 23:31

I actually started my instrument in a twin Comanche after getting my PMEL. A week before my check ride we had a prop over speed. The plane went down for several months and I finished up in an archer. That was in SC by the way. I moved to VA shortly after that.

After that I decided to play some so I bought a 61' 310F and flew it around for a year and then sold it. The plane was never IFR certified and would have cost to much to get up to snuff. I ended up logging 70 in type before I got rid of it. When it was all said and done I probably paid the same per hour as it would have been to rent but I had the convenience and headache of it being mine. (I learned a lot owning that thing)

I then tried my hand at the commercial with an instrument add on in a local FBO's Seneca 1. After a few flights it became apparent I was more proficient in twins than my MEI. It was funny actually. I was teaching the MEI!!! Well, two transponders later, one nav com, and a dropped cylinder the plane still isn't flyable. When I started flying that thing it was the only twin close to Richmond and they wanted 200 an hr. I figured I would rap the rating up quick enough so I could suffer through the high cost. Well now that FBO has raised the rate to 250! Insane, especially being that plane is a trash can with wings on it.

My problem lies in the fact I am having a hard time finding a twin anywhere close to here. You are definitely right, I don't want to start form scratch but I want a reliable plane for a check ride.

If you want to night mares, think of me changing the boost pump in that twin Comanche after my successful oral and before my check ride. THAT’S STRESS! The examiner traveled two hrs for my PMEL so it really needed to happen that day. On top of that, the same day my girl was coming in form England. I hate beat airplanes. HATEM HATEM HATEM!!!

So if I must travel to get this rating, I need the attention of the instructor, the examiner lined up, and the plane to work all at once. Great Day, I have better odds wining the Mega Bucks.

montanapilot · August 21st, 2004, 23:46

they have an apache around here in Portland for 125 an hour if thats any help to you.

USMCmech · August 22nd, 2004, 15:56

First off, welcome to the boards.

Second, last time I checked ATP had a plane in RIC. When I got my MEI/CFII from them it was 2,000$. The CMEL was 1700$. That will take about two weeks. With the amount of multi time you have there is no need for you to go through the whole program. Then you pick up your CSEL/CFI SEL.

Unless of course, you don't like money.

Bog · August 23rd, 2004, 03:12

If I read this correctly, you are a Private Pilot, Single- and Multi-Engine. Not yet instrument rated.

You have tons of multi time. My advice, for what it's worth:

Finish the Instrument in a single. MUCH cheaper. Do the CSEL right after or during the same checkride if want.

Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument. It'll be a walk in the park and cheap. Then do their instructor program.

Just my thoughts.

NJA_Capt · August 23rd, 2004, 08:15

[ QUOTE ]
Finish the Instrument in a single. MUCH cheaper.
Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument. It'll be a walk in the park and cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto...

I never have understood these programs that get you in a twin right off the bat. All that does is waste a ton of money, and utilize an less used asset for the FBO.

I know the twin looks cool and the gear goes up and all, but come on guys. Don't spend the money until you have to.

SEL: PVT, INST, COMM.
MEL: Add on.
SEL: CFI, II,
Then MEI.

A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book.

While we're at it, the top 2 things to NOT ask at an interview:

#2 Will you lower your multi and/or turbine requirements?

#1 How soon til I upgrade?

PS....By "simple" and SEL, I don't mean doing the CSEL in a super turbo, supercharged, triple redunant, manual reversion, stealth SEL, a TBM700, Mirage, Saratoga, or a Bonanza. I mean a plain Jane, boring (ie simple) fixed gear, fixed prop S-E-L. Preferably withOUT an autopilot.

El_Cid_Av8or · August 23rd, 2004, 09:33

[ QUOTE ]

A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might as well tack on a commercial certificate too unless you have a lot of money for insurance (probably need that anyway). I got my AMEL private with no inst or comm as a convenient add-on rating. Then I did the inst and comm in a single. Looking back, I would have gone the "traditional route".

Bog · August 23rd, 2004, 13:44

[ QUOTE ]
I never have understood these programs that get you in a twin right off the bat. All that does is waste a ton of money, and utilize an less used asset for the FBO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not knocking those programs; I did ATP's program a few years ago because it was the cheapest, fastest, and most complete option for me needs. I could have stayed at home, kept working, and flown once or twice a week at a local FBO (which a CFI buddy tried to convince me to do), but I wanted to instruct at ATP so I could rack up the multi time and get hired earlier. For me, it worked.

For someone who already has more multi time than most regional newhires, it's not necessary. However, if it's a more comfortable option. well ... try to find a flying club with a Seminole.

pilot602 · August 23rd, 2004, 14:03

Just a different view point on private-multi ...

It served as my gateway to the rest of all my ratings. Of course we own a twin so it was requirement for everything after but in the end it's actually worked out for the best as I'm pushing 550TT and about 470 Multi ... my brother has his private-single/multi and has about 300tt 150multi and we have an airplane we can sell in a year or so.

The point is do what you need to do to fit your situation ... I'm a firm believer in getting the ratings you need when you need them.

C310_pilot · August 23rd, 2004, 15:55

[ QUOTE ]

A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

As for the multiengine with no instrument well I will strongly disagree with you. I bought my 310 for 39,500. My insurance was 2,300 a year and I flew it for 70+ hours. I turned around and sold the same plane a year later for 49,500. My three expenses were the prop AD 5,000, the annual 3,000 and replacing a seal in one strut 500. Tie down was free because the FBO liked me buying gas and having a twin on the field. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I know this is coming, 18gal an hr at 70% 178kts indicated. At the time 100LL was 2.30 @ my field.

If I went out and bought a 172 for time building I could have been in for the same money possibly but I was able to fly to many cool places in a complex, fast airplane and build some awesome time. I was able to take my plane on three, four, and week long trips without worrying about a three hour per day minimum on the aircraft. I learned tons about airplanes owning one too.

To clarify, I have my instrument but single engine only.

Approaches in a twin make approaches in a single boring. In a single pull power and let it comedown, I almost fall asleep. Now throw some boost pumps, gear, mixture, props, and some extra gauges now were talking fun, esp. shooting the approach at 120kts. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I simply don't have the rating because of equipment failures. I have 15+ actual in twins and 40+ under the hood out of 125TT. I might not have the rating but I am willing to bet I am more proficient than allot of pilots with 20VFR and 10 under the hood in multi. Just because you don't have the piece of paper doesn't make you any less of a pilot, its experience in and out of the airplane that makes you proficient. That’s one reason why I am trying to find a place that I can just wrap up these ratings. I have more time in multi VFR and IFR than most of the instructors put together in my area. I just need a reliable plane. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

C310_pilot · August 23rd, 2004, 16:06

[ QUOTE ]
Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument

[/ QUOTE ]

We have no complex singles around here. Funny story, an instructor geared up the only one we had with a commercial student. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

I wanted to get my intial CMEL w/ instrument so I can then get my CSEL in a 172. ATP will not do this! I asked multiple times and I told them it doesn't make sense. A CMEL is a glorified private, throw in 2 or 3 approaches and call it a day. Comon, its not that hard!!!!

carlos · August 23rd, 2004, 16:45

If you're basically ready for the checkrides but are just looking for a place to get signed off and take the practical in the shortest time possible, try Sheble Aviation.

I got my CSEL and CMEL in 4 days total, 2 days for each course. I accumulated about 4.5 hours in a C172, an hour in a C172RG, and about 5.5 hours in a Beech BE95 Travel Air. Not much teaching going on, though. They just make sure that you know what you're doing and sign you off for the test by one of their on-site examiners. If you feel that you know your stuff, this may be a good idea.

You should have your commercial written done going in, of course.

C310_pilot · August 23rd, 2004, 17:12

[ QUOTE ]
If you're basically ready for the checkrides but are just looking for a place to get signed off and take the practical in the shortest time possible, try Sheble Aviation.

You should have your commercial written done going in, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

AWESOME! This is exactly what I need!!! Thanks Carlos. I have spent many nights on the phone and surfing the web trying to find something like this. It comes down to luck or JC NETWORKING.

An added bonus, the examiner ownes the flight school. Seems like it should be next to imposible to bust.

jonnyb · August 23rd, 2004, 17:20

Shoot C310, I totally forgot about Sheble's. I trained there years back and I highly recommend them as well. If you're fairly prepared, they WILL get you through the checkrides in the least possible time.

Bog · August 23rd, 2004, 17:50

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument

[/ QUOTE ]

We have no complex singles around here. Funny story, an instructor geared up the only one we had with a commercial student. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

I wanted to get my intial CMEL w/ instrument so I can then get my CSEL in a 172. ATP will not do this! I asked multiple times and I told them it doesn't make sense. A CMEL is a glorified private, throw in 2 or 3 approaches and call it a day. Comon, its not that hard!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I must have missed something. What does the lack of complex singles have to do with anything? Also, if you could clarify, did you do your instrument rating ride in a single? Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ATP offers a multi add-on, not initial. That's why I suggested getting the Comm in a single (which would make you Comm ASEL w/instru, Private AMEL VFR) then go to ATP for the Comm AMEL (which would make you a Comm ASEL / AMEL w/ instr). That they will do; I did them when I worked there.

If Sheble's works, go for it. I've heard decent stuff about them too and that might be the path of least resistance for ya. ATP doesn't really go outside their normal packages simply because it's too big of an "institution" to do it.

JayAre · August 23rd, 2004, 17:55

Bogberto,

What RWY is that jet coming on in your pic. I was down there the other day I always get the 7R or 25L. But I always use Cutter

pilot602 · August 23rd, 2004, 18:03

Looks like the north runway 'cuz you can see the "temple" or "shrine" in hte background which is North/NorthEast of the field right off the 202.

C310_pilot · August 23rd, 2004, 22:05

[ QUOTE ]

I must have missed something. What does the lack of complex singles have to do with anything? Also, if you could clarify, did you do your instrument rating ride in a single? Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought for your initial commercial you needed to show proficiency in a complex airplane and yes I have my instrument SEL only.

Bog · August 23rd, 2004, 22:31

[ QUOTE ]
I thought for your initial commercial you needed to show proficiency in a complex airplane and yes I have my instrument SEL only.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya know, I'd say you do or don't ... but I don't know. Been too long since I checked the regs. Didn't think you needed it, but I haven't looked that one up in 6 years. I claim ignorance on this one.

[ QUOTE ]
what runway ... in your avatar

[/ QUOTE ]

That CR9 is landing on 26 in PHX. I was holding on Bravo waiting for my for gate, so I took the camera out and started snapping away.

pilot602 · August 24th, 2004, 15:11

Yes ... for your initial Commercial you need a complex aircraft.

August 21st, 2004, 22:36	#3
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: elusive ratings Are you training in a C310? If so, that's part of your problem right there. That's not necassary. Go somewhere else where they have a Seminole, Seneca, Dutchess etc. and finish up what you need to. Why in the world are you training in a $250/hr. airplane when money seems to be of concern (which it should)? You should easily be able to find one of the other twins for $120-175/hr. Doing the ATP thing would be foolish in my opinion. Just some advice. Good luck! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

August 21st, 2004, 23:31	#4
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	Re: elusive ratings I actually started my instrument in a twin Comanche after getting my PMEL. A week before my check ride we had a prop over speed. The plane went down for several months and I finished up in an archer. That was in SC by the way. I moved to VA shortly after that. After that I decided to play some so I bought a 61' 310F and flew it around for a year and then sold it. The plane was never IFR certified and would have cost to much to get up to snuff. I ended up logging 70 in type before I got rid of it. When it was all said and done I probably paid the same per hour as it would have been to rent but I had the convenience and headache of it being mine. (I learned a lot owning that thing) I then tried my hand at the commercial with an instrument add on in a local FBO's Seneca 1. After a few flights it became apparent I was more proficient in twins than my MEI. It was funny actually. I was teaching the MEI!!! Well, two transponders later, one nav com, and a dropped cylinder the plane still isn't flyable. When I started flying that thing it was the only twin close to Richmond and they wanted 200 an hr. I figured I would rap the rating up quick enough so I could suffer through the high cost. Well now that FBO has raised the rate to 250! Insane, especially being that plane is a trash can with wings on it. My problem lies in the fact I am having a hard time finding a twin anywhere close to here. You are definitely right, I don't want to start form scratch but I want a reliable plane for a check ride. If you want to night mares, think of me changing the boost pump in that twin Comanche after my successful oral and before my check ride. THAT’S STRESS! The examiner traveled two hrs for my PMEL so it really needed to happen that day. On top of that, the same day my girl was coming in form England. I hate beat airplanes. HATEM HATEM HATEM!!! So if I must travel to get this rating, I need the attention of the instructor, the examiner lined up, and the plane to work all at once. Great Day, I have better odds wining the Mega Bucks.

August 21st, 2004, 23:46	#5
montanapilot Old Skool Join Date: May 2003 Location: Portland, Orygun Posts: 1,638	Re: elusive ratings they have an apache around here in Portland for 125 an hour if thats any help to you.

August 22nd, 2004, 15:56	#6
USMCmech Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 1,577	Re: elusive ratings First off, welcome to the boards. Second, last time I checked ATP had a plane in RIC. When I got my MEI/CFII from them it was 2,000$. The CMEL was 1700$. That will take about two weeks. With the amount of multi time you have there is no need for you to go through the whole program. Then you pick up your CSEL/CFI SEL. Unless of course, you don't like money.

August 23rd, 2004, 03:12	#7
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,158	Re: elusive ratings If I read this correctly, you are a Private Pilot, Single- and Multi-Engine. Not yet instrument rated. You have tons of multi time. My advice, for what it's worth: Finish the Instrument in a single. MUCH cheaper. Do the CSEL right after or during the same checkride if want. Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument. It'll be a walk in the park and cheap. Then do their instructor program. Just my thoughts.

August 21st, 2004, 21:56	#1
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	elusive ratings I am looking for opinions. I have been flying for about three years and have been slowly getting my ratings. I now have PPLI, PMEL, and 334 hrs of which 124 are multi. I was attempting to get my CMEL with my instrument add on last Sept but over the course of my training I have been plagued with scheduling and mechanical problems. My eventual goal was to get my CFI, MEI, CFII but this FBO stuff is taking for ever. They now raised the price of the P.O.S. airplane to 250 an hr to boot. As I see it I need five ratings still and I think I have two options. 1. Find someplace that has a reliable twin to finish my CMEL with an instrument add on, then go fly a 172 for my CSEL, then take the ATP flight instructor course or something similar. 2. Suck it up and take the entire ATP course and reap the benefit of more instruction and an additional 190 hrs of multi bring my TT multi to 314 in 90 days. I started looking at my year-to-date expenses and I could have paid for the course and then some with what I have spent so far. I could possibly be working for an airline by now if I started an accelerated program 3 years ago. What do you guys think? Does any one know of a place that can get me that commercial expeditiously? ATP said they wouldn’t do it. I also talked to the guy at SkyMates and that looks like my best option right now. In a nut shell, I am tired of spending money and I want results!

August 21st, 2004, 22:11	#2
mastermags Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 1,303	Re: elusive ratings You have 120 multi and are actually considering laying down 30 grand for ATP's course... no way man, that's for no timers, you are way ahead of the game. Just find a twin, get your CMEL and CSEL in a 172 or something, and go find a place to give you your instructor ratings. No use spending 3 times as much.

August 23rd, 2004, 08:15	#8
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,315	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] Finish the Instrument in a single. MUCH cheaper. Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument. It'll be a walk in the park and cheap. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto... I never have understood these programs that get you in a twin right off the bat. All that does is waste a ton of money, and utilize an less used asset for the FBO. I know the twin looks cool and the gear goes up and all, but come on guys. Don't spend the money until you have to. SEL: PVT, INST, COMM. MEL: Add on. SEL: CFI, II, Then MEI. A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book. While we're at it, the top 2 things to NOT ask at an interview: #2 Will you lower your multi and/or turbine requirements? #1 How soon til I upgrade? PS....By "simple" and SEL, I don't mean doing the CSEL in a super turbo, supercharged, triple redunant, manual reversion, stealth SEL, a TBM700, Mirage, Saratoga, or a Bonanza. I mean a plain Jane, boring (ie simple) fixed gear, fixed prop S-E-L. Preferably withOUT an autopilot.

August 23rd, 2004, 09:33	#9
El_Cid_Av8or Newbie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Goose Creek, SC, USA Posts: 29	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book. [/ QUOTE ] Might as well tack on a commercial certificate too unless you have a lot of money for insurance (probably need that anyway). I got my AMEL private with no inst or comm as a convenient add-on rating. Then I did the inst and comm in a single. Looking back, I would have gone the "traditional route".

August 23rd, 2004, 13:44	#10
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,158	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] I never have understood these programs that get you in a twin right off the bat. All that does is waste a ton of money, and utilize an less used asset for the FBO. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not knocking those programs; I did ATP's program a few years ago because it was the cheapest, fastest, and most complete option for me needs. I could have stayed at home, kept working, and flown once or twice a week at a local FBO (which a CFI buddy tried to convince me to do), but I wanted to instruct at ATP so I could rack up the multi time and get hired earlier. For me, it worked. For someone who already has more multi time than most regional newhires, it's not necessary. However, if it's a more comfortable option. well ... try to find a flying club with a Seminole.

August 23rd, 2004, 14:03	#11
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: elusive ratings Just a different view point on private-multi ... It served as my gateway to the rest of all my ratings. Of course we own a twin so it was requirement for everything after but in the end it's actually worked out for the best as I'm pushing 550TT and about 470 Multi ... my brother has his private-single/multi and has about 300tt 150multi and we have an airplane we can sell in a year or so. The point is do what you need to do to fit your situation ... I'm a firm believer in getting the ratings you need when you need them.

August 23rd, 2004, 15:55	#12
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] A multiengine pvt ticket with no instrument rating is worthless in my book. [/ QUOTE ] As for the multiengine with no instrument well I will strongly disagree with you. I bought my 310 for 39,500. My insurance was 2,300 a year and I flew it for 70+ hours. I turned around and sold the same plane a year later for 49,500. My three expenses were the prop AD 5,000, the annual 3,000 and replacing a seal in one strut 500. Tie down was free because the FBO liked me buying gas and having a twin on the field. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I know this is coming, 18gal an hr at 70% 178kts indicated. At the time 100LL was 2.30 @ my field. If I went out and bought a 172 for time building I could have been in for the same money possibly but I was able to fly to many cool places in a complex, fast airplane and build some awesome time. I was able to take my plane on three, four, and week long trips without worrying about a three hour per day minimum on the aircraft. I learned tons about airplanes owning one too. To clarify, I have my instrument but single engine only. Approaches in a twin make approaches in a single boring. In a single pull power and let it comedown, I almost fall asleep. Now throw some boost pumps, gear, mixture, props, and some extra gauges now were talking fun, esp. shooting the approach at 120kts. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I simply don't have the rating because of equipment failures. I have 15+ actual in twins and 40+ under the hood out of 125TT. I might not have the rating but I am willing to bet I am more proficient than allot of pilots with 20VFR and 10 under the hood in multi. Just because you don't have the piece of paper doesn't make you any less of a pilot, its experience in and out of the airplane that makes you proficient. That’s one reason why I am trying to find a place that I can just wrap up these ratings. I have more time in multi VFR and IFR than most of the instructors put together in my area. I just need a reliable plane. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 23rd, 2004, 16:06	#13
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument [/ QUOTE ] We have no complex singles around here. Funny story, an instructor geared up the only one we had with a commercial student. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img] I wanted to get my intial CMEL w/ instrument so I can then get my CSEL in a 172. ATP will not do this! I asked multiple times and I told them it doesn't make sense. A CMEL is a glorified private, throw in 2 or 3 approaches and call it a day. Comon, its not that hard!!!!

August 23rd, 2004, 16:45	#14
carlos Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 91	Re: elusive ratings If you're basically ready for the checkrides but are just looking for a place to get signed off and take the practical in the shortest time possible, try Sheble Aviation. I got my CSEL and CMEL in 4 days total, 2 days for each course. I accumulated about 4.5 hours in a C172, an hour in a C172RG, and about 5.5 hours in a Beech BE95 Travel Air. Not much teaching going on, though. They just make sure that you know what you're doing and sign you off for the test by one of their on-site examiners. If you feel that you know your stuff, this may be a good idea. You should have your commercial written done going in, of course.

August 23rd, 2004, 17:12	#15
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] If you're basically ready for the checkrides but are just looking for a place to get signed off and take the practical in the shortest time possible, try Sheble Aviation. You should have your commercial written done going in, of course. [/ QUOTE ] AWESOME! This is exactly what I need!!! Thanks Carlos. I have spent many nights on the phone and surfing the web trying to find something like this. It comes down to luck or JC NETWORKING. An added bonus, the examiner ownes the flight school. Seems like it should be next to imposible to bust.

August 23rd, 2004, 17:20	#16
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: elusive ratings Shoot C310, I totally forgot about Sheble's. I trained there years back and I highly recommend them as well. If you're fairly prepared, they WILL get you through the checkrides in the least possible time.

August 23rd, 2004, 17:50	#17
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,158	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Goto ATP for the multi add-on to your CMEL w/ Instrument [/ QUOTE ] We have no complex singles around here. Funny story, an instructor geared up the only one we had with a commercial student. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img] I wanted to get my intial CMEL w/ instrument so I can then get my CSEL in a 172. ATP will not do this! I asked multiple times and I told them it doesn't make sense. A CMEL is a glorified private, throw in 2 or 3 approaches and call it a day. Comon, its not that hard!!!! [/ QUOTE ] I must have missed something. What does the lack of complex singles have to do with anything? Also, if you could clarify, did you do your instrument rating ride in a single? Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ATP offers a multi add-on, not initial. That's why I suggested getting the Comm in a single (which would make you Comm ASEL w/instru, Private AMEL VFR) then go to ATP for the Comm AMEL (which would make you a Comm ASEL / AMEL w/ instr). That they will do; I did them when I worked there. If Sheble's works, go for it. I've heard decent stuff about them too and that might be the path of least resistance for ya. ATP doesn't really go outside their normal packages simply because it's too big of an "institution" to do it.

August 23rd, 2004, 17:55	#18
JayAre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Multiple Posts: 988	Re: elusive ratings Bogberto, What RWY is that jet coming on in your pic. I was down there the other day I always get the 7R or 25L. But I always use Cutter

August 23rd, 2004, 18:03	#19
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: elusive ratings Looks like the north runway 'cuz you can see the "temple" or "shrine" in hte background which is North/NorthEast of the field right off the 202.

August 23rd, 2004, 22:05	#20
C310_pilot Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 71	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] I must have missed something. What does the lack of complex singles have to do with anything? Also, if you could clarify, did you do your instrument rating ride in a single? Thanks. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I thought for your initial commercial you needed to show proficiency in a complex airplane and yes I have my instrument SEL only.

August 23rd, 2004, 22:31	#21
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,158	Re: elusive ratings [ QUOTE ] I thought for your initial commercial you needed to show proficiency in a complex airplane and yes I have my instrument SEL only. [/ QUOTE ] Ya know, I'd say you do or don't ... but I don't know. Been too long since I checked the regs. Didn't think you needed it, but I haven't looked that one up in 6 years. I claim ignorance on this one. [ QUOTE ] what runway ... in your avatar [/ QUOTE ] That CR9 is landing on 26 in PHX. I was holding on Bravo waiting for my for gate, so I took the camera out and started snapping away.

August 24th, 2004, 15:11	#22
pilot602 Old Skool Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: who haa Posts: 3,750	Re: elusive ratings Yes ... for your initial Commercial you need a complex aircraft.

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