Yeah ... airline "security" is A-OK!

[pilot602]

[ QUOTE ]
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- -- Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Massachusetts, may be one of the most recognizable politicians in the world, but that didn't stop some airport screeners from treating him as a potential security risk.

At a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on border security Thursday, Kennedy revealed that he was held up at Boston's Logan International Airport several times -- starting in March -- after his name somehow was placed on a security watch list.

During the first incident, Kennedy said someone at the US Airways ticket counter refused to take his Visa credit card and said he couldn't fly to Washington.

"I said I've been getting on this plane for 42 years," Kennedy said to laughter. "Why can't I get on the plane back to Washington?"

Kennedy spokesman David Smith told CNN that the person at the counter called a supervisor, who quickly recognized Kennedy and made sure he was allowed on the flight.

A spokesman at the Department of Homeland Security said Kennedy was pulled aside and put through secondary screening before being allowed to fly. The spokesman said the senator was put through secondary screening because there was a "name likeness" to somebody who was of concern.

The same scenario played out two more times before Kennedy's staff finally called DHS officials, according to Kennedy's office. "They promised that steps would be taken to take him off the list," Smith said.

But the same mistake occurred a few more times, Smith said, and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge "called to apologize" that the situation had not been rectified.

Smith said the senator mentioned his experience at Thursday's hearing to Undersecretary of Homeland Security Asa Hutchinson because the lawmaker wants to "make sure innocent Americans are not being unfairly treated" by new security measures.

Despite the frustration, Smith said of the senator, "I think he handled it all with good nature."

A DHS spokesman stressed that Kennedy's name is not, and has never been, on a "no-fly" list. The spokesman said Kennedy was pulled aside for secondary screening because he was identified through CAPPS (Computer Assisted Passenger Pre-Screening System) criteria.

While CAPPS criteria is officially confidential, it is widely known that passengers are subjected to secondary screening if they pay with cash, buy one-way tickets or buy a ticket at the last minute.

"We have acknowledged in the past the system is an antiquated screening system, and we need a new system that will alleviate situations like this," the DHS spokesman said.

[/ QUOTE ]

[tonyw]

Yeah, cause Kennedy is definitely a terrorist. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Timbuff10]

Good, if I have to go through that security then he should too. Just because he was elected to an office doesn't mean he is any less of a security risk than I.

It would be nice if the TSA would focus on the more likely threats (see the Northwest Dry Run thread) instead of the average person.

[Doug Taylor]

I've heard about him terrorizing an innocent bottle of Schnapps!

Lol. It shouldn't matter who you are. They did a good job treating everyone equally and not letting him go just because he is famous. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[tonyw]

You don't get the point, do you, Brian? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

Ted Kennedy is no terrorist threat, except to a bottle of whiskey or something.

Why he's on the CAPPS database, I have no idea.

It isn't that Kennedy got treated like everyone else. It's that he was flagged in the first place.

[pilot602]

[ QUOTE ]
Good, if I have to go through that security then he should too. Just because he was elected to an office doesn't mean he is any less of a security risk than I.
It would be nice if the TSA would focus on the more likely threats (see the Northwest Dry Run thread) instead of the average person.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol. It shouldn't matter who you are. They did a good job treating everyone equally and not letting him go just because he is famous. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The point of the story is not that Kennedy should be exempt from security - it's that if he's being held up "because of a name likeness" and he has a direct line to Tom Ridge, DHS and the TSA and still can't get the "problem" fixed how is Joe Average supposed to rectify problems when they occur? Therein lies the problem with our "security" system right now. It's ridiculous and stupid and these "new" programs will just multiply these problems.

[pilot602]

[ QUOTE ]
Why he's on the CAPPS database, I have no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course no one is saying that maybe it's because he'sa Democrat ... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[sldauby]

I agree with Timbuff10. Everybody should go through the same security no matter who you are.

[naunga]

Thank goodness someone got the point of the story.

Of course one has to wonder how a democrat's name got on the watch list that is managed by an organization run by republicans during an election year. Things that make you go hmmm.

Of course of all the people to put on that list he's the wrong one.

Naunga

[danielsexton]

Senator Kennedy terrorizes me every time I have to hear or see him [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The point that i got from the story was that "If a well known senator, whom everyone know is not a member of al-queda can be blacklisted from flying, so can your average Joe, AND if it was hard for him to get the mess fixed, imagine how hard it would be for you..."

You and I can't call Tom Ridge and ask for our name to be removed.

[tonyw]

Just ask this guy:

Omar was born in the United States, carries a U.S. passport, and speaks without an accent. One day he showed up at the El Al ticket counter at Kennedy airport after spending $1,500 for a ticket to visit his relatives in Israeli-controlled Palestine. Omar was refused transport on El Al and no explanation was given. When he protested, the airline's staff asked the police to escort him from the terminal.

Switching to another carrier, Omar finally landed in Israel. Because he had been denied passage on El Al, however, he was also denied entry into the country and was immediately sent back to America. Having been banned from El Al, and because he'd been denied passage into Israel, he was subsequently detained and interrogated at every connecting point both abroad and in the United States.

"Orwell was an optimist," Omar said. He lost the full price of his ticket and is fearful of attempting the trip again. He reminds us that the Syrians on flight 327 would probably face similar groundless detainment should they ever attempt to visit the United States again, for the absurd reason of having once been wrongly suspected of something.

Ask the Pilot

Tell me what happened to Omar isn't complete and utter BS.

This isn't a bunch of Syrians coming from a country that sponsors terrorism, although that terrorism isn't directed at the US.

This is a US citizen, born and raised here.

[danielsexton]

[ QUOTE ]
He lost the full price of his ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure where this story is from, but I would question its authenticty based on the above statement.

[Doug Taylor]

I might be wrong, but I think if you miss your flight at USAir, your ticket is null and void like a concert.

[Minnesota_Flyer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He lost the full price of his ticket

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure where this story is from, but I would question its authenticty based on the above statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Salon.com, "Ask the Pilot". Follow Tony's link. Besides, why would he get a refund, an the other carrier (unnamed) got him to Israel.

MF

[danielsexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides, why would he get a refund, an the other carrier (unnamed) got him to Israel.

[/ QUOTE ]

He would be due a refund because he was refused service, unless they arranged the other air travel. Highly unlikely, for 2 reasons:

1) The story says he "lost $1500" implying that he got no services for that money

2) It would sound something like this "Hello _____ Airline this is So and So at El Al, we have a guy that we will not allow to board because we feel he is a security threat, will you take him?"

Other reason's to question this story's authenticity:

1) Salon.com (but then that’s a discussion for the LAV)
2) A man of Palestinian decent flying on a Jewish Airline
3) "Speaks perfect English without an accent"; "Israeli controlled Palestine"; "When he protested they called the cops"; "Fearful of attempting the trip again"; "He lost the full price of his ticket ($1500)" Are all sensationalized details intended to arouse anger at El Al
4) If an American citizen had been denied boarding and "lost" his $1500 based on racial profiling, he would have been in a lawyer’s office filing a multi-million dollar lawsuit for civil rights and a half dozen other things just as fast as he could get there.
5) Where’s the major news coverage? ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, CBS?

just my .02

[Minnesota_Flyer]

[ QUOTE ]
2) A man of Palestinian decent flying on a Jewish Airline

[/ QUOTE ]

Why wouldn't he take El Al? They are the primary carrier into Israel and there is no Palestinian Airline.

[ QUOTE ]
3) "Speaks perfect English without an accent"

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently I'm missing the problem with this one. Many Arabs and Palestinians have been in the West long enough to either lose their accent or never have one. In fact, insofar as this gentleman was described as "of Palestinian descent" rather than as a "Palestinian," I would assume that he grew up somewhere else.

[ QUOTE ]
"When he protested they called the cops"

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. That's extremely suspicious. After having decided that the guy was too big a security risk to allow him on the plane, I can't imagine what possibly could have prompted El Al to summon the authorities. [/sarcasm]

[ QUOTE ]
"Fearful of attempting the trip again"

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had an experience like this, would you be excited to repeat it??

[ QUOTE ]
4) If an American citizen had been denied boarding and "lost" his $1500 based on racial profiling, he would have been in a lawyer’s office filing a multi-million dollar lawsuit for civil rights and a half dozen other things just as fast as he could get there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably, but it would be EXTREMELY difficult for anyone to sue El Al because it is a national airline and largely protected by sovereign immunity.

MF

[tonyw]

I have spoken with Patrick Smith personally. He's many things. A liar isn't one of them.

It doesn't bother you that a man born and raised here in the US, carrying an American passport, was denied passage? And that he was reamed up the ying yang?

That doesn't bother you?

I guess American born and raised citizens need to prove to you that they're not terrorists, too, huh?

[Windchill]

This is in the lav also.

It's just the feds having a little fun w/ Ted Kennedy [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]!

Just some fraternity hazing on a slightly larger scale.

[tonyw]

It would be funny if it wasn't so screwed up. Look, Ted Kennedy is many things. And I can understand if the more conservative people here hate his beliefs.

But a terrorist?

Come on!

[Windchill]

Though I'm not the biggest Ted Kennedy fan . . . it's a sad example of beauracratic deficiency that TK is on a list of suspected terrorists.

But it's also hilarious . . . no matter dem or repub . . . I'd find it absolutely hilarious if prominant repubs were listed as well like Colin Powell, Bush, Sen Frist, etc.

Though his politics fire me up . . . my heart goes out to that man, knowing everything he has gone through in his life regarding his family. Truly an unfortunate tragedy that I wouldn't wish on anyone--even Kerry [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[danielsexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I have spoken with Patrick Smith personally. He's many things. A liar isn't one of them.

It doesn't bother you that a man born and raised here in the US, carrying an American passport, was denied passage? And that he was reamed up the ying yang?

That doesn't bother you?

I guess American born and raised citizens need to prove to you that they're not terrorists, too, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you tried reading EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES LTD. General Conditions of Carriage for Passengers and Baggage
Effective from 1st June 2001?

10.1. Refunds – General
We will refund a Ticket or any unused portion, in accordance with the applicable fare rules or Tariff, as follows:
10.2.1. If we cancel a flight, make a significant change to a flight time which is not acceptable to you, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to schedule, fail to stop at your destination or Stopover, or cause you to miss a connecting flight in circumstances where you hold a confirmed reservation and adequate time existed to make the connection between the originally scheduled time of arrival of your flight and the departure time of the connecting flight, or exercise our right under Article 7 to refuse carriage, the amount of the refund shall be:
(a) if no portion of the Ticket has been used, an amount equal to the fare paid;

read the entire contract here


The guy is due a refund per El Al's own rules. I’m sure they would have given it to him, just to stop the lawsuits they would be opening themselves up to by not honoring there own contract. And this contract isn't something new it’s been in place since June 2001.

I don't think the guy at Salon.com is making the story up, I think as normal they haven't bothered to check a story before they publish it.
.

[tonyw]

You didn't answer the question. Does it, or does it not bother you that a man who was born and raised in the US, who carries an American passport, was denied boarding because, well, we don't know why, do we?

Does that bother you? Yes, or no? One word answer.

[danielsexton]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't answer the question. Does it, or does it not bother you that a man who was born and raised in the US, who carries an American passport, was denied boarding because, well, we don't know why, do we?

Does that bother you? Yes, or no? One word answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it actually happened.... ABSOLUTLEY it bothers me!

My comments should in no way be misconstrued as supportive of El Al, if they in fact discriminated against someone, who did nothing wrong. I am questioning the facts of the story (which by the way I can’t find on salon.com) based on what was posted. I just don't think it happened, or atleast not in the way it was discribed. (i.e. theres more to the story)

[Icelandair]

What about chappaquiddick?