Can't wait to get to the regionals??? - Page 3

n77j · August 17th, 2004, 02:47

another one [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

jonnyb · August 17th, 2004, 02:59

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't see the types of charter outfits out there that have the rosy lives. Im not saying they arent out there, im saying that in my expereince they are not the norm. I used to work in a non flying position for a Charter Operation. There pilots were not paid well, tied to a pager, flew crap equipment, into crap weather. Typicaly trips were to fly about 1 hr or so away, sit all day and fly back.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the point you're trying to make here Kingairer. The only problem is that these are generalizations. That's all. Of course these things happen at certain places at certain times. If any pilot flies into "crap" weather just because he's told to, then the pilot is at fault, not the company. That's just poor judgment. There are plenty of "good" charter operators around the country. Seek and ye shall find. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Although, I've probably made some generalizations here and there, so we're even. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] These detailed threads are very valuable and useful to those in the decision making process.

FalconCapt · August 17th, 2004, 03:01

[ QUOTE ]
-Not all Corporate companies pay good-in fact most of them are as low as a Regional career. The ones that pay good are hard to get in unless you really have a good netwrok.

-Corporate pilots have one of the worst schedules i have ever seen. I have seen some pilots leave their home base for two or three weeks-sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you are generalizing these things based on a couple people you have met... You can't say "most of them pay bad"... You haven't been around most of them... I'll give you an example, my Year-to-Date pay (What I have earned already as of Aug 13) already exceeds the annual salary of an 18 year ExpressJet ERJ-145 Captain (by more than $10,000) or an American Eagle 18 year CRJ-700 Captain (by more than $6,000) or even a ComAir 16 year CRJ Captain... I still have 4 1/2 months of earning potentional left in this year... My pay is right at the NBAA Average... I am no where near the high end of the spectrum... There are quite a few Corporate guys doing better than I am pay wise...

If you have been working at an FBO and there is a Citation based there and you are using that as a reference, then you are not getting a good cross section... Most Corporate operators have their own hangar space and do not base out of FBO community hangars...

Networking is important anywhere, but it isn't a requirement... MOST of the pilots we have hired have been from resumes, not from internal recs...

And as far as the schedules go, those vary from company to company... just because one company sends their pilots out for weeks on end does not mean this is the norm...

Would you believe I flew 4 days in July and will work about 8 days this month? The rest of the time I am at home with my family... No commuting, no reserve, no pop-up trips...

You can't generalize when it comes to Corporate, there are as many variables as their are flight departments... However when it comes to the regionals, they are all very similar, they all have similar contracts and issues...

n77j · August 17th, 2004, 03:02

yeah baby another one- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

CaptainChris87 · August 17th, 2004, 03:07

FALCON IS THIS INTERNSHIP BROUGHT UP BY MR PENGUIN FULL 8 HOUR DAYS????? NOT ALL INTERNSHIPS ARE 40 HRS A WEEK. I MEAN YOU HAVE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED THE FRINGE BENEFITS......ACCORDIGN TO YOUR "MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS", i DONT THINK ANY COMPANY WOULD KEEP AN INTERN FOR 30 YEARS TILL RETIREMENT, AND WHY NOT JUST APPLY FOR THIS INTERNSHIP CAPT, SEEMS LIKE YOULL MAKE MORE MONEY IN COMPARED TO A SENIOR FO AT A REIGONAL, SINCE YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT ESPECIALLY MATHEMATICALLY WHOOPTY DOO! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

CaptainChris87 · August 17th, 2004, 03:09

IF YOU ASK ME SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER WHINER ABOUT HIS CAREER WHICH HE SHOUDL BE THANKFUL FOR... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

FalconCapt · August 17th, 2004, 03:14

[ QUOTE ]
FALCON IS THIS INTERNSHIP BROUGHT UP BY MR PENGUIN FULL 8 HOUR DAYS????? NOT ALL INTERNSHIPS ARE 40 HRS A WEEK. I MEAN YOU HAVE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED THE FRINGE BENEFITS......ACCORDIGN TO YOUR "MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS", i DONT THINK ANY COMPANY WOULD KEEP AN INTERN FOR 30 YEARS TILL RETIREMENT, AND WHY NOT JUST APPLY FOR THIS INTERNSHIP CAPT, SEEMS LIKE YOULL MAKE MORE MONEY IN COMPARED TO A SENIOR FO AT A REIGONAL, SINCE YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT ESPECIALLY MATHEMATICALLY WHOOPTY DOO! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, to be 16 again... not... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

jonnyb · August 17th, 2004, 03:21

[ QUOTE ]
IF YOU ASK ME SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER WHINER ABOUT HIS CAREER WHICH HE SHOUDL BE THANKFUL FOR...

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris, I like you man............but I have to disagree with you here. FalconCapt. is somewhat intense (so am I [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), but he's right. We're all just bringing the cards to the table. Kingairer is providing some pretty good info as well. Take it all in........the good, the bad AND the ugly! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

UAL747400 · August 17th, 2004, 03:24

Why ya yelling, we're gelling. Sorry I could not resist.

I think you might be a little mixed up chris. Course its 1:30 and I'm a little "funny" right now.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

Tom

n77j · August 17th, 2004, 04:15

Chris-
Just use this forum as a learning material- I don't think capt.falcon or anyone is implying negative remarks to the aviation field-it might be good for you to read it and understand it!

Doug Taylor · August 17th, 2004, 04:19

Aeigh! Caps lock man! ouch!

n77j · August 17th, 2004, 05:15

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

Bog · August 17th, 2004, 06:20

When I was instructing, I met a corporate guy who only flew weekdays, worked for a great company, and spent plenty of time with his family. He was well compensated, too. However, he knew that if the company hit hard or lean times, he'd be the first to go, and the flight department would probably disappear. That risk exists, and as long as you're willing to accept it, you're good to go.

Another corporate pilot also loved his job, but was on call 32 days per month and said he had no social life. He knew that as the junior pilot of 10, it'd be a year or three before his life improved, but as long as his employer stayed in good financial times, he was set. If things went bad at his company, regardless of the country's economy, he'd be unemployed.

Falcon and Johnny bring up excellent points and comparisons, however not all of us are driven by the money (not implying you are, please don't take it that way) nor do we have a desire to be corporate pilots. I much prefer the general boredom of flying to the same group of cities, having my flight planned out by someone else, and not having to deal with passengers. Sure regional pay sucks and the 300k/yr job at the majors is basically gone, but I still like my choice to fly the airlines and therefore accept the lame money for now. Hopefully that'll change by late '05, and who knows ... maybe I will be flying a bizjet.

FalconCapt · August 17th, 2004, 10:47

[ QUOTE ]
however not all of us are driven by the money (not implying you are, please don't take it that way) nor do we have a desire to be corporate pilots. I much prefer the general boredom of flying to the same group of cities, having my flight planned out by someone else, and not having to deal with passengers.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolutely correct, Corporate flying is certainly not for everyone... This thread was directed at the large majority of people who are heading to the Regionals... To make them aware of the pay at the regionals vs. an "Average" job in another field... People can't change things if they are uninformed... The more people hear about this pay disparity, the more likely they might actually try to do something about it... The longer the Regionals get away with this low pay, the harder it will be to change, only the people going to or already at the regionals can change this...

A note on these comments as well:

[ QUOTE ]
that if the company hit hard or lean times, he'd be the first to go, and the flight department would probably disappear...

-AND-

If things went bad at his company, regardless of the country's economy, he'd be unemployed.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is no where near as true as the "Urban Legend" would have you believe... I know of many, many companies who had dramatically downsized their company in the last few years (during the lean times) only to leave their flight department unscathed... Siince I have been at my company, we have had 2 major layoffs, one was nearly 25,000 employees and the other was over 50,000 employees (several years later)... Both times the flight department remained unchanged... Corporate Aviation has truely evolved into a business tool and not a "perk" as it was viewed 20-30 years ago, this is especially true in a post-9/11 world...

tonyw · August 17th, 2004, 11:06

Well, you know, one of the last things the execs will give up is their corporate jet. And someone's got to fly it.

Plus, when you fly corporate, you get to know the execs on a first name basis. So then it's not just laying off an unnamed employee. Nope, now they are laying off Joe, who got them to that meeting on time despite some nasty weather, and who got him back in time to get to his kid's baseball game.

Just my speculation, but seriously, does anyone think an exec is going to give up his bizjet?

ready2fly · August 17th, 2004, 11:20

[ QUOTE ]
Corporate flying is certainly not for everyone... This thread was directed at the large majority of people who are heading to the Regionals... To make them aware of the pay at the regionals vs. an "Average" job in another field... People can't change things if they are uninformed... The more people hear about this pay disparity, the more likely they might actually try to do something about it... The longer the Regionals get away with this low pay, the harder it will be to change, only the people going to or already at the regionals can change this...

[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit, I had not really considered corporate flying as an option when I first began flying... for me, it was the regionals/airlines or bust.... but, the longer I stayed on this site, the more contacts I made.

The more contacts I made, the more opportunities I had to meet people. One of those meetings was with C650Capt. He took the time to not just show me the "neato-cool" stuff in the plane he flies, but he and his Chief Pilot actually took the time to answer any and every question I had about flying in general.

Somewhere along the way, a seed was planted and I started researching corporate flying and how it would possibly one day fit in with my goals and my family lifestyle.

I've had great conversations with other corporate guys like johnnyb and Jason.

Then FalconCapt. logged on and I've had the opportunity to pick his brain from time to time. He has bee nothing but helpful and very inspirational to me. His candor is greatly appreciated. He does not "candy coat" his answers, so if you don't want to hear honest questions - don't ask them.

I said all that to say: listen to what those on this site who are in the field currently have to say - relate that to your personal goals and needs and decide what's best for you.

If you're good to go with the payscale/schedule/QoL at the regional level, do your research, build your hours, then go for it.

If you're more interested in the payscale/schedules/QoL at the corporate level, then do your research, build your hours, then go for it.

But don't be offended when somebody shows you an alternative to what you thought was the "be all/end all" to aviation.

There are other avenues out there. Just go in with your eyes wide open.

That about sum it up, FalconCapt.?

R2F

kellwolf · August 17th, 2004, 13:31

[ QUOTE ]
But don't be offended when somebody shows you an alternative to what you thought was the "be all/end all" to aviation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I am WAY open to other avenues. And you mean there IS a "be all end all" in aviation? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My point is that things are a bit different to those of us looking from the bottom up as opposed to those that are already in positions. Also, things have changed DRASTICALLY since some of these guys have been where we are. The CFIs at my school make $12/hr with very, very few benefits. That's considered average in this area. If you fly 30 hours a week (which is a very good week) consistantly for 52 weeks, that's just shy of $19K before taxes. Me personally, I'd rather take the guaranteed by contract hours at a regional instead of hoping that none of my students decide it's too expensive to learn to fly. Add in the travel and health benefits (hey, I have a kid on the way), and that figure jumps exponentially. I didn't realize how much I counted on those benefits until I left my ramp job at SWA. Now, I've started shopping around for health insurance, and it would be CHEAPER to move to Europe.

FalconCapt · August 17th, 2004, 15:31

Good post R2F! Well said!

Bog · August 17th, 2004, 16:13

[ QUOTE ]
This is no where near as true as the "Urban Legend" would have you believe... I know of many, many companies who had dramatically downsized their company in the last few years (during the lean times) only to leave their flight department unscathed...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good to know. Thanks for the info.

For now, I just want to fly boxes. Can't sleep anyway, so I may as well do something constructive with that time.

FalconCapt · August 17th, 2004, 16:56

[ QUOTE ]
Can't sleep anyway, so I may as well do something constructive with that time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love night flying, we do a fair bit of it also... A lot of times when we head to Europe we leave in the early evening which puts us into central Europe in the morning, the passengers sleep on board and are well rested when we get there, they go to work and we go to bed!

Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite!

jonnyb · August 17th, 2004, 17:06

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite!

[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't experienced either one of these phenominon yet. Looking forward to it.

Bog · August 17th, 2004, 17:47

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite!

[/ QUOTE ]

Did a leg from LAS to YYC a few weeks back, leave Vegas at midnight kinda thing. For over two hours we had an awesome light show on the horizon, with the last 45 or so being just beyond incredible. It really is an awesome sight. If it was legal, I would have allowed each passenger to come up for a look. Since it's not, only the f/as got to take a look.

August 17th, 2004, 21:16

I actually talked to a kid in school today that said he wanted to become a millionaire by being a commercial pilot. Unless you have a bussines on the side this is not possible I'm afraid. It was funny though to see the lack of information people have about the aviation career. They think pilots are swimming in cash. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

Doug Taylor · August 17th, 2004, 21:19

You'll never be wealthy being someone's employee. Most people haven't figured that out yet.

Bog · August 17th, 2004, 21:41

[ QUOTE ]
They think pilots are swimming in cash. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You should see the look on their face when I inform them that my crew and I will be sleeping on the airplane because our company is too cheap to give us a hotel on a 3 1/2 hour layer during the early hours of the morning. Yeah, reality is something the general public does NOT comprehend.

August 17th, 2004, 02:47	#51
n77j Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: haytown,california Posts: 268	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? another one [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 02:59	#52
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] I really don't see the types of charter outfits out there that have the rosy lives. Im not saying they arent out there, im saying that in my expereince they are not the norm. I used to work in a non flying position for a Charter Operation. There pilots were not paid well, tied to a pager, flew crap equipment, into crap weather. Typicaly trips were to fly about 1 hr or so away, sit all day and fly back. [/ QUOTE ] I understand the point you're trying to make here Kingairer. The only problem is that these are generalizations. That's all. Of course these things happen at certain places at certain times. If any pilot flies into "crap" weather just because he's told to, then the pilot is at fault, not the company. That's just poor judgment. There are plenty of "good" charter operators around the country. Seek and ye shall find. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] Although, I've probably made some generalizations here and there, so we're even. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] These detailed threads are very valuable and useful to those in the decision making process.

August 17th, 2004, 03:01	#53
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] -Not all Corporate companies pay good-in fact most of them are as low as a Regional career. The ones that pay good are hard to get in unless you really have a good netwrok. -Corporate pilots have one of the worst schedules i have ever seen. I have seen some pilots leave their home base for two or three weeks-sucks. [/ QUOTE ] Again, you are generalizing these things based on a couple people you have met... You can't say "most of them pay bad"... You haven't been around most of them... I'll give you an example, my Year-to-Date pay (What I have earned already as of Aug 13) already exceeds the annual salary of an 18 year ExpressJet ERJ-145 Captain (by more than $10,000) or an American Eagle 18 year CRJ-700 Captain (by more than $6,000) or even a ComAir 16 year CRJ Captain... I still have 4 1/2 months of earning potentional left in this year... My pay is right at the NBAA Average... I am no where near the high end of the spectrum... There are quite a few Corporate guys doing better than I am pay wise... If you have been working at an FBO and there is a Citation based there and you are using that as a reference, then you are not getting a good cross section... Most Corporate operators have their own hangar space and do not base out of FBO community hangars... Networking is important anywhere, but it isn't a requirement... MOST of the pilots we have hired have been from resumes, not from internal recs... And as far as the schedules go, those vary from company to company... just because one company sends their pilots out for weeks on end does not mean this is the norm... Would you believe I flew 4 days in July and will work about 8 days this month? The rest of the time I am at home with my family... No commuting, no reserve, no pop-up trips... You can't generalize when it comes to Corporate, there are as many variables as their are flight departments... However when it comes to the regionals, they are all very similar, they all have similar contracts and issues...

August 17th, 2004, 03:02	#54
n77j Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: haytown,california Posts: 268	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? yeah baby another one- [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 03:07	#55
CaptainChris87 Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: O.C. Posts: 1,784	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? FALCON IS THIS INTERNSHIP BROUGHT UP BY MR PENGUIN FULL 8 HOUR DAYS????? NOT ALL INTERNSHIPS ARE 40 HRS A WEEK. I MEAN YOU HAVE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED THE FRINGE BENEFITS......ACCORDIGN TO YOUR "MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS", i DONT THINK ANY COMPANY WOULD KEEP AN INTERN FOR 30 YEARS TILL RETIREMENT, AND WHY NOT JUST APPLY FOR THIS INTERNSHIP CAPT, SEEMS LIKE YOULL MAKE MORE MONEY IN COMPARED TO A SENIOR FO AT A REIGONAL, SINCE YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT ESPECIALLY MATHEMATICALLY WHOOPTY DOO! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 03:09	#56
CaptainChris87 Old Skool Join Date: May 2004 Location: O.C. Posts: 1,784	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? IF YOU ASK ME SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER WHINER ABOUT HIS CAREER WHICH HE SHOUDL BE THANKFUL FOR... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 03:14	#57
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] FALCON IS THIS INTERNSHIP BROUGHT UP BY MR PENGUIN FULL 8 HOUR DAYS????? NOT ALL INTERNSHIPS ARE 40 HRS A WEEK. I MEAN YOU HAVE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED THE FRINGE BENEFITS......ACCORDIGN TO YOUR "MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS", i DONT THINK ANY COMPANY WOULD KEEP AN INTERN FOR 30 YEARS TILL RETIREMENT, AND WHY NOT JUST APPLY FOR THIS INTERNSHIP CAPT, SEEMS LIKE YOULL MAKE MORE MONEY IN COMPARED TO A SENIOR FO AT A REIGONAL, SINCE YOUR ALWAYS CORRECT ESPECIALLY MATHEMATICALLY WHOOPTY DOO! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Ah, to be 16 again... not... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cwm27.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 03:21	#58
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] IF YOU ASK ME SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER WHINER ABOUT HIS CAREER WHICH HE SHOUDL BE THANKFUL FOR... [/ QUOTE ] Chris, I like you man............but I have to disagree with you here. FalconCapt. is somewhat intense (so am I [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]), but he's right. We're all just bringing the cards to the table. Kingairer is providing some pretty good info as well. Take it all in........the good, the bad AND the ugly! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 03:24	#59
UAL747400 Old Skool Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Grand Forks, ND (UND)/ Davenport, IA Posts: 2,204	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? Why ya yelling, we're gelling. Sorry I could not resist. I think you might be a little mixed up chris. Course its 1:30 and I'm a little "funny" right now. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] Tom

August 17th, 2004, 04:15	#60
n77j Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: haytown,california Posts: 268	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? Chris- Just use this forum as a learning material- I don't think capt.falcon or anyone is implying negative remarks to the aviation field-it might be good for you to read it and understand it!

August 17th, 2004, 04:19	#61
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? Aeigh! Caps lock man! ouch!

August 17th, 2004, 05:15	#62
n77j Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: haytown,california Posts: 268	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 06:20	#63
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? When I was instructing, I met a corporate guy who only flew weekdays, worked for a great company, and spent plenty of time with his family. He was well compensated, too. However, he knew that if the company hit hard or lean times, he'd be the first to go, and the flight department would probably disappear. That risk exists, and as long as you're willing to accept it, you're good to go. Another corporate pilot also loved his job, but was on call 32 days per month and said he had no social life. He knew that as the junior pilot of 10, it'd be a year or three before his life improved, but as long as his employer stayed in good financial times, he was set. If things went bad at his company, regardless of the country's economy, he'd be unemployed. Falcon and Johnny bring up excellent points and comparisons, however not all of us are driven by the money (not implying you are, please don't take it that way) nor do we have a desire to be corporate pilots. I much prefer the general boredom of flying to the same group of cities, having my flight planned out by someone else, and not having to deal with passengers. Sure regional pay sucks and the 300k/yr job at the majors is basically gone, but I still like my choice to fly the airlines and therefore accept the lame money for now. Hopefully that'll change by late '05, and who knows ... maybe I will be flying a bizjet.

August 17th, 2004, 10:47	#64
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] however not all of us are driven by the money (not implying you are, please don't take it that way) nor do we have a desire to be corporate pilots. I much prefer the general boredom of flying to the same group of cities, having my flight planned out by someone else, and not having to deal with passengers. [/ QUOTE ] You are absolutely correct, Corporate flying is certainly not for everyone... This thread was directed at the large majority of people who are heading to the Regionals... To make them aware of the pay at the regionals vs. an "Average" job in another field... People can't change things if they are uninformed... The more people hear about this pay disparity, the more likely they might actually try to do something about it... The longer the Regionals get away with this low pay, the harder it will be to change, only the people going to or already at the regionals can change this... A note on these comments as well: [ QUOTE ] that if the company hit hard or lean times, he'd be the first to go, and the flight department would probably disappear... -AND- If things went bad at his company, regardless of the country's economy, he'd be unemployed. [/ QUOTE ] This is no where near as true as the "Urban Legend" would have you believe... I know of many, many companies who had dramatically downsized their company in the last few years (during the lean times) only to leave their flight department unscathed... Siince I have been at my company, we have had 2 major layoffs, one was nearly 25,000 employees and the other was over 50,000 employees (several years later)... Both times the flight department remained unchanged... Corporate Aviation has truely evolved into a business tool and not a "perk" as it was viewed 20-30 years ago, this is especially true in a post-9/11 world...

August 17th, 2004, 11:06	#65
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? Well, you know, one of the last things the execs will give up is their corporate jet. And someone's got to fly it. Plus, when you fly corporate, you get to know the execs on a first name basis. So then it's not just laying off an unnamed employee. Nope, now they are laying off Joe, who got them to that meeting on time despite some nasty weather, and who got him back in time to get to his kid's baseball game. Just my speculation, but seriously, does anyone think an exec is going to give up his bizjet?

August 17th, 2004, 11:20	#66
ready2fly Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: DFW Posts: 7,373	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] Corporate flying is certainly not for everyone... This thread was directed at the large majority of people who are heading to the Regionals... To make them aware of the pay at the regionals vs. an "Average" job in another field... People can't change things if they are uninformed... The more people hear about this pay disparity, the more likely they might actually try to do something about it... The longer the Regionals get away with this low pay, the harder it will be to change, only the people going to or already at the regionals can change this... [/ QUOTE ] I have to admit, I had not really considered corporate flying as an option when I first began flying... for me, it was the regionals/airlines or bust.... but, the longer I stayed on this site, the more contacts I made. The more contacts I made, the more opportunities I had to meet people. One of those meetings was with C650Capt. He took the time to not just show me the "neato-cool" stuff in the plane he flies, but he and his Chief Pilot actually took the time to answer any and every question I had about flying in general. Somewhere along the way, a seed was planted and I started researching corporate flying and how it would possibly one day fit in with my goals and my family lifestyle. I've had great conversations with other corporate guys like johnnyb and Jason. Then FalconCapt. logged on and I've had the opportunity to pick his brain from time to time. He has bee nothing but helpful and very inspirational to me. His candor is greatly appreciated. He does not "candy coat" his answers, so if you don't want to hear honest questions - don't ask them. I said all that to say: listen to what those on this site who are in the field currently have to say - relate that to your personal goals and needs and decide what's best for you. If you're good to go with the payscale/schedule/QoL at the regional level, do your research, build your hours, then go for it. If you're more interested in the payscale/schedules/QoL at the corporate level, then do your research, build your hours, then go for it. But don't be offended when somebody shows you an alternative to what you thought was the "be all/end all" to aviation. There are other avenues out there. Just go in with your eyes wide open. That about sum it up, FalconCapt.? R2F

August 17th, 2004, 13:31	#67
kellwolf Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,230	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] But don't be offended when somebody shows you an alternative to what you thought was the "be all/end all" to aviation. [/ QUOTE ] Believe me, I am WAY open to other avenues. And you mean there IS a "be all end all" in aviation? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My point is that things are a bit different to those of us looking from the bottom up as opposed to those that are already in positions. Also, things have changed DRASTICALLY since some of these guys have been where we are. The CFIs at my school make $12/hr with very, very few benefits. That's considered average in this area. If you fly 30 hours a week (which is a very good week) consistantly for 52 weeks, that's just shy of $19K before taxes. Me personally, I'd rather take the guaranteed by contract hours at a regional instead of hoping that none of my students decide it's too expensive to learn to fly. Add in the travel and health benefits (hey, I have a kid on the way), and that figure jumps exponentially. I didn't realize how much I counted on those benefits until I left my ramp job at SWA. Now, I've started shopping around for health insurance, and it would be CHEAPER to move to Europe.

August 17th, 2004, 15:31	#68
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? Good post R2F! Well said!

August 17th, 2004, 16:13	#69
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] This is no where near as true as the "Urban Legend" would have you believe... I know of many, many companies who had dramatically downsized their company in the last few years (during the lean times) only to leave their flight department unscathed... [/ QUOTE ] That's good to know. Thanks for the info. For now, I just want to fly boxes. Can't sleep anyway, so I may as well do something constructive with that time.

August 17th, 2004, 16:56	#70
FalconCapt Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 489	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] Can't sleep anyway, so I may as well do something constructive with that time. [/ QUOTE ] I love night flying, we do a fair bit of it also... A lot of times when we head to Europe we leave in the early evening which puts us into central Europe in the morning, the passengers sleep on board and are well rested when we get there, they go to work and we go to bed! Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite!

August 17th, 2004, 17:06	#71
jonnyb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: So. California Posts: 1,304	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite! [/ QUOTE ] Haven't experienced either one of these phenominon yet. Looking forward to it.

August 17th, 2004, 17:47	#72
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] Nothing better than watching the Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) over the pitch black North Atlantic Ocean or seeing the "Southern Cross" for the first time as your head south over the Amazon Jungle on your way to Rio De Janeiro... Night flying is by far my favorite! [/ QUOTE ] Did a leg from LAS to YYC a few weeks back, leave Vegas at midnight kinda thing. For over two hours we had an awesome light show on the horizon, with the last 45 or so being just beyond incredible. It really is an awesome sight. If it was legal, I would have allowed each passenger to come up for a look. Since it's not, only the f/as got to take a look.

August 17th, 2004, 21:16	#73
Lurker Posts: n/a	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? I actually talked to a kid in school today that said he wanted to become a millionaire by being a commercial pilot. Unless you have a bussines on the side this is not possible I'm afraid. It was funny though to see the lack of information people have about the aviation career. They think pilots are swimming in cash. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

August 17th, 2004, 21:19	#74
Doug Taylor Agent Smith Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: KSDL Posts: 41,926 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? You'll never be wealthy being someone's employee. Most people haven't figured that out yet.

August 17th, 2004, 21:41	#75
Bog Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,170	Re: Can\'t wait to get to the regionals??? [ QUOTE ] They think pilots are swimming in cash. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] You should see the look on their face when I inform them that my crew and I will be sleeping on the airplane because our company is too cheap to give us a hotel on a 3 1/2 hour layer during the early hours of the morning. Yeah, reality is something the general public does NOT comprehend.

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