Wichita's final 757 to take a bow - Page 3

chrisesp · August 12th, 2004, 22:58

I'll make it a flaming post

flyover · August 13th, 2004, 10:08

[ QUOTE ]
Well...what about the 757-300. though not a new design or re-design at all they (Boeing engineers) did tinker around with it a bit and gave it superior fuel specifics and a much lower cost per seat mile.

A book I have here says the 757-300 has the lowest fuel cost per mile of any two engined plane in it's class so that would include the NG737 as well as the A320's.

It's a shame to see a great airplane heading into the sunset so early more especially a great plane like the 757.

The 7E7 will have a lot of shoe to fill in my opinion. More especially since it seems to be more of a replacement for the 767 then the seven-five.

Matthew

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know if 757-300 and 737 are in same class or not. Probably.

But the bottom line is Boeing shut the line down because they couldn't sell enough of the airplanes. And they were running into a problem of the 737-800/900 being a viable and more cost effective replacement. They were competing against themselves. Obviously, the 757-300 is another matter. But they couldn't sell them. If anybody had stepped in with a big order, they'd still be making them.

I still believe that maintenance costs were a factor. Going forward the airlines want airplanes designed so that a mechanic can change out a fuel pump in 30 minutes. Modular is a big deal. Simple, no complexity. The 757 was old school in that regard.

Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here).

NJA_Capt · August 13th, 2004, 11:04

[ QUOTE ]
But the bottom line is Boeing shut the line down because they couldn't sell enough of the airplanes.... They were competing against themselves. Obviously, the 757-300 is another matter. But they couldn't sell them. If anybody had stepped in with a big order, they'd still be making them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think they are competing with themselves. They have way too many products out there. Too many aircraft in the same niche are saturating the market.
717
737-600/700/800/BBJ/900
747-400,ER/F/Ei,Ei O.
767-200/200ER,300/300ER/F,400ER
777-200/ER/LR, 300/ER
7E7
Not including all the sub categories of each type (ie...767-216, there are 39 subcategories to the 767-200 series alone!!!))

And still supporting the MD market with the -80/90/10/11to boot.

[ QUOTE ]
...airlines want airplanes designed so that a mechanic can change out a fuel pump in 30 minutes. Modular is a big deal. The 757 was old school in that regard.

[/ QUOTE ]But with that the 737 20 years older tech than the 757. Their logic just doesn't flow.

I hope they can sort it out. I'd hate to see the bottom of the Boeing logo say....
"Boeing, A division of Airbus."

flyover · August 13th, 2004, 12:56

[ QUOTE ]
But with that the 737 20 years older tech than the 757. Their logic just doesn't flow.

I hope they can sort it out. I'd hate to see the bottom of the Boeing logo say....
"Boeing, A division of Airbus."

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The interesting thing about the 737 was they never thought they'd sell many. When they couldn't stop selling them they finally redesigned the wing, and stretched it. Just like when they designed the 747 for the military heavy lift contract against the C-5. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

mpenguin1 · August 13th, 2004, 12:59

It has always happened & will always happen, each customer is different & the customer do not always know what they want. Airbus has the same problems, so we could see Airbus become another Boeing company.

As for the different variations of the 737, they are built on the same assembly line, same can be said for Airbus with their: A318, A319, A320, A321 and the Airbus Business jet.

The 757 & the 737-900 are not really in the same class, and besides not many customers ordered the 737-900.

737-900 177 passengers or 189 passengers.
757-200 200 passengers and up to 228 passengers.
757-300 243 passengers and up to 280 passengers.

mtsu_av8er · August 13th, 2004, 13:33

[ QUOTE ]
Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here).

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Minnesota_Flyer · August 13th, 2004, 13:36

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here).

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah . . . I don't see the average airline passenger having an appropriate appreciation for the DC-3. 'Tis my goal to fly one at least once before I'm done.

MF

H46Bubba · August 13th, 2004, 14:28

Oh man, the sweetest sight and sound I get on a daily basis, is a Pace 757 with RR engines that flies in and out of SFB.[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] Those RR engines put out the greastest sound on the take off roll.

gurisudenko · August 13th, 2004, 14:38

I really miss the B727ADV. First jet I ever flew in. They were so loud, even with the hush kits. Too bad not many US carriers have them in their fleet nowadays. As a matter of fact, I think at the airplane graveyard down the street there are a few DAL727-200adv's.

I would go look if it wasn't 110 degrees out with a UV index of 11 out of 10! ...And if I had a car...

mpenguin1 · August 13th, 2004, 14:44

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here).

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

True that, there is a group of folks that would still love to see the Concorde still fly......

tonyw · August 13th, 2004, 14:53

[ QUOTE ]
True that, there is a group of folks that would still love to see the Concorde still fly......

[/ QUOTE ]

Include me in that group. And you wonder why I wanted to see the Sonic Cruiser so bad?

gurisudenko · August 13th, 2004, 15:17

Ugh! It's so sad that the market for the Sonic Cruiser didn't open up too well.

Sir_Captain · August 13th, 2004, 15:32

Yeah but I never like it. It was never a true aircraft IMO. To me real airplanes are ones like the 727, 737, 747 and MD-11.

[/ QUOTE ]

???? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Sir_Captain · August 13th, 2004, 15:36

Totally off topic here.................

Cristl's avatar, the woman in the pic is gorgeous [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

gurisudenko · August 13th, 2004, 15:43

hahaha that's a pic of me...thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img]

Did any of you guys ever see the article in Popular Science about the future of flight? Now they sell the poster of the CG-rendered, blended wing aircraft taxiing in NYC. That image was awesome.

About the blended wing - I don't know if that's ever going to work for airliners. The Sonic Cruiser had a chance with passenger approval, given they may be able to see out the windows. But the designs for the BWB's I think are just sadistic. I like to see when I fly! And there was another aircraft I saw, that someone had an idea for (not sure if it was Boeing)...where the pilots see outside through LCD screens, rather than actual cockpit windows. This is because someone was too lazy to design the thing to have windows in the front. That's also sadistic!

MikeD · August 13th, 2004, 15:44

[ QUOTE ]
.where the pilots see outside through LCD screens, rather than actual cockpit windows. This is because someone was too lazy to design the thing to have windows in the front. That's also sadistic!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadistic? It's the future.

gurisudenko · August 13th, 2004, 15:55

the future = full of sadistic aerospace engineers

Can I at least wear those cool glasses like the guy in Star Trek?

MikeD · August 13th, 2004, 15:56

[ QUOTE ]

Can I at least wear those cool glasses like the guy in Star Trek?

[/ QUOTE ]

who, Geordi?

gurisudenko · August 13th, 2004, 16:02

Is that his name?

Shows how much I actually watched Star Trek. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Smilecrunch.gif[/img]

jdflight · August 13th, 2004, 16:05

Mike, I used to think you were pretty cool until you chimed in with the name of an obscure Star Trek character! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

MikeD · August 13th, 2004, 16:07

[ QUOTE ]
Mike, I used to think you were pretty cool until you chimed in with the name of an obscure Star Trek character! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

It was purely an off-the-wall guess at a name.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

jdflight · August 13th, 2004, 16:08

Sure, pal. Sure.

Sir_Captain · August 13th, 2004, 16:11

airplanes? blended wing? whaaaaaa??????????????
I'm still looking at that picture [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

You guys keep talking and keep her posting, hopefully she'll appear more often. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

MikeD · August 13th, 2004, 16:12

[ QUOTE ]
airplanes? blended wing? whaaaaaa??????????????
I'm still looking at that picture [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img]

You guys keep talking and keep her posting, hopefully she'll appear more often. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Procedure steps:

Enter shower.

Turn to full-cold.

Stand underneath.

jdflight · August 13th, 2004, 16:12

Nothing like subtlety. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

August 12th, 2004, 22:58	#51
chrisesp Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 394	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow I'll make it a flaming post

August 13th, 2004, 10:08	#52
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] Well...what about the 757-300. though not a new design or re-design at all they (Boeing engineers) did tinker around with it a bit and gave it superior fuel specifics and a much lower cost per seat mile. A book I have here says the 757-300 has the lowest fuel cost per mile of any two engined plane in it's class so that would include the NG737 as well as the A320's. It's a shame to see a great airplane heading into the sunset so early more especially a great plane like the 757. The 7E7 will have a lot of shoe to fill in my opinion. More especially since it seems to be more of a replacement for the 767 then the seven-five. Matthew [/ QUOTE ] Don't know if 757-300 and 737 are in same class or not. Probably. But the bottom line is Boeing shut the line down because they couldn't sell enough of the airplanes. And they were running into a problem of the 737-800/900 being a viable and more cost effective replacement. They were competing against themselves. Obviously, the 757-300 is another matter. But they couldn't sell them. If anybody had stepped in with a big order, they'd still be making them. I still believe that maintenance costs were a factor. Going forward the airlines want airplanes designed so that a mechanic can change out a fuel pump in 30 minutes. Modular is a big deal. Simple, no complexity. The 757 was old school in that regard. Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here).

August 13th, 2004, 11:04	#53
NJA_Capt Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Low Earth Orbit Posts: 1,389	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] But the bottom line is Boeing shut the line down because they couldn't sell enough of the airplanes.... They were competing against themselves. Obviously, the 757-300 is another matter. But they couldn't sell them. If anybody had stepped in with a big order, they'd still be making them. [/ QUOTE ] I agree, I think they are competing with themselves. They have way too many products out there. Too many aircraft in the same niche are saturating the market. 717 737-600/700/800/BBJ/900 747-400,ER/F/Ei,Ei O. 767-200/200ER,300/300ER/F,400ER 777-200/ER/LR, 300/ER 7E7 Not including all the sub categories of each type (ie...767-216, there are 39 subcategories to the 767-200 series alone!!!)) And still supporting the MD market with the -80/90/10/11to boot. [ QUOTE ] ...airlines want airplanes designed so that a mechanic can change out a fuel pump in 30 minutes. Modular is a big deal. The 757 was old school in that regard. [/ QUOTE ]But with that the 737 20 years older tech than the 757. Their logic just doesn't flow. I hope they can sort it out. I'd hate to see the bottom of the Boeing logo say.... "Boeing, A division of Airbus."

August 13th, 2004, 12:56	#54
flyover Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,389	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] But with that the 737 20 years older tech than the 757. Their logic just doesn't flow. I hope they can sort it out. I'd hate to see the bottom of the Boeing logo say.... "Boeing, A division of Airbus." [/ QUOTE ] I agree. The interesting thing about the 737 was they never thought they'd sell many. When they couldn't stop selling them they finally redesigned the wing, and stretched it. Just like when they designed the 747 for the military heavy lift contract against the C-5. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 12:59	#55
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 10,573 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow It has always happened & will always happen, each customer is different & the customer do not always know what they want. Airbus has the same problems, so we could see Airbus become another Boeing company. As for the different variations of the 737, they are built on the same assembly line, same can be said for Airbus with their: A318, A319, A320, A321 and the Airbus Business jet. The 757 & the 737-900 are not really in the same class, and besides not many customers ordered the 737-900. 737-900 177 passengers or 189 passengers. 757-200 200 passengers and up to 228 passengers. 757-300 243 passengers and up to 280 passengers.

August 13th, 2004, 13:33	#56
mtsu_av8er Old Skool Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Utopia Posts: 12,590	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here). [/ QUOTE ] Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 13:36	#57
Minnesota_Flyer Old Skool Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul Posts: 2,016	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here). [/ QUOTE ] Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yeah . . . I don't see the average airline passenger having an appropriate appreciation for the DC-3. 'Tis my goal to fly one at least once before I'm done. MF

August 13th, 2004, 14:28	#58
H46Bubba Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: CVG Posts: 4,465	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Oh man, the sweetest sight and sound I get on a daily basis, is a Pace 757 with RR engines that flies in and out of SFB.[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] Those RR engines put out the greastest sound on the take off roll.

August 13th, 2004, 14:38	#59
gurisudenko Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Saint Cloud, MN USA Posts: 260	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow I really miss the B727ADV. First jet I ever flew in. They were so loud, even with the hush kits. Too bad not many US carriers have them in their fleet nowadays. As a matter of fact, I think at the airplane graveyard down the street there are a few DAL727-200adv's. I would go look if it wasn't 110 degrees out with a UV index of 11 out of 10! ...And if I had a car...

August 13th, 2004, 14:44	#60
mpenguin1 Old Skool Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 10,573 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Believe me if pilot preference was what drove fleet decisions, we'd all be flying 747s, DC-8s, Connies, DC-3s, 727s, 757/67s and (place your favorite here). [/ QUOTE ] Good thing we don't choose aircraft....the airlines would really be out of business... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] True that, there is a group of folks that would still love to see the Concorde still fly......

August 13th, 2004, 14:53	#61
tonyw Old Skool Join Date: May 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 15,922	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] True that, there is a group of folks that would still love to see the Concorde still fly...... [/ QUOTE ] Include me in that group. And you wonder why I wanted to see the Sonic Cruiser so bad?

August 13th, 2004, 15:17	#62
gurisudenko Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Saint Cloud, MN USA Posts: 260	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Ugh! It's so sad that the market for the Sonic Cruiser didn't open up too well.

August 13th, 2004, 15:32	#63
Sir_Captain Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 252	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Yeah but I never like it. It was never a true aircraft IMO. To me real airplanes are ones like the 727, 737, 747 and MD-11. [/ QUOTE ] ???? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 15:36	#64
Sir_Captain Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 252	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Totally off topic here................. Cristl's avatar, the woman in the pic is gorgeous [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 15:43	#65
gurisudenko Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Saint Cloud, MN USA Posts: 260	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow hahaha that's a pic of me...thanks [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bandit.gif[/img] Did any of you guys ever see the article in Popular Science about the future of flight? Now they sell the poster of the CG-rendered, blended wing aircraft taxiing in NYC. That image was awesome. About the blended wing - I don't know if that's ever going to work for airliners. The Sonic Cruiser had a chance with passenger approval, given they may be able to see out the windows. But the designs for the BWB's I think are just sadistic. I like to see when I fly! And there was another aircraft I saw, that someone had an idea for (not sure if it was Boeing)...where the pilots see outside through LCD screens, rather than actual cockpit windows. This is because someone was too lazy to design the thing to have windows in the front. That's also sadistic!

August 13th, 2004, 15:44	#66
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] .where the pilots see outside through LCD screens, rather than actual cockpit windows. This is because someone was too lazy to design the thing to have windows in the front. That's also sadistic! [/ QUOTE ] Sadistic? It's the future.

August 13th, 2004, 15:55	#67
gurisudenko Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Saint Cloud, MN USA Posts: 260	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow the future = full of sadistic aerospace engineers Can I at least wear those cool glasses like the guy in Star Trek?

August 13th, 2004, 15:56	#68
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] Can I at least wear those cool glasses like the guy in Star Trek? [/ QUOTE ] who, Geordi?

August 13th, 2004, 16:02	#69
gurisudenko Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Saint Cloud, MN USA Posts: 260	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Is that his name? Shows how much I actually watched Star Trek. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Smilecrunch.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 16:05	#70
jdflight Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO (anywhere but Fresno) Posts: 1,495	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Mike, I used to think you were pretty cool until you chimed in with the name of an obscure Star Trek character! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 16:07	#71
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] Mike, I used to think you were pretty cool until you chimed in with the name of an obscure Star Trek character! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] It was purely an off-the-wall guess at a name. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 16:08	#72
jdflight Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO (anywhere but Fresno) Posts: 1,495	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow Sure, pal. Sure.

August 13th, 2004, 16:11	#73
Sir_Captain Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 252	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow airplanes? blended wing? whaaaaaa?????????????? I'm still looking at that picture [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] You guys keep talking and keep her posting, hopefully she'll appear more often. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img]

August 13th, 2004, 16:12	#74
MikeD Administrator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pinal Airpark Posts: 6,897	Re: Wichita\'s final 757 to take a bow [ QUOTE ] airplanes? blended wing? whaaaaaa?????????????? I'm still looking at that picture [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buck.gif[/img] You guys keep talking and keep her posting, hopefully she'll appear more often. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/insane.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Procedure steps: Enter shower. Turn to full-cold. Stand underneath.

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