NWA 327: Dry run for terrorists or misunderstandin

[JEP]

Mrivc - Watch Out For The Passengers. They will be watching you. This situation seems to be similiar to what you mentioned about the tourney you are attending soon..
[ QUOTE ]
Joe Sharkey, New York Times
July 26, 2004 TRAV0726
Something extraordinary happened June 29 on Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles. The plane was met at the airport by federal agents and police responding to radio messages from the pilots about concerns that 14 Middle Eastern male passengers had been acting suspiciously.

But was the episode a dry run for a terrorist attack? Or was it an innocent sequence of events that some passengers misinterpreted as a terrorist plot?

The story of Flight 327 was first told in a 3,300-word article, "Terror in the Skies, Again?" by Annie Jacobsen, a freelance writer from Los Angeles, published this month at www.womenswallstreet.com.

I have spoken with Jacobsen and with an official of the Federal Air Marshal Service, who confirmed the gist of her narrative, if not her interpretation.

On June 29, Jacobsen; her husband, Kevin; and their 4½-year-old son boarded Northwest 327 in Detroit. The Jacobsens noticed a group of six men of Middle Eastern appearance. One wore a large orthopedic shoe. Two carried what appeared to be small musical instrument cases. One wore a yellow T-shirt and was carrying a big McDonald's sack.

Then the Jacobsens watched a second group of Middle Eastern men board. These men were in communication with the first group, Jacobsen said, and "they all seemed to be checking in" with yellow shirt.

Jacobsen's article describes the men's "unusual activity." Ignoring the "fasten seat belt" signs, the men went frequently and in succession to the lavatories, and congregated near the galleys in twos or threes. Yellow shirt gave her a "cold, defiant look" when she caught his eye.

About two hours into the flight, Kevin Jacobsen approached a flight attendant who said the crew were aware of the behavior, including the fact that parcels like the McDonald's bag were carried into the lavatories.

"She said ... they were passing notes to each other, that the pilots were aware of it, and that there were people on board who are 'higher up than you or me' that were watching them," Kevin Jacobsen said. He presumed, correctly, that this was a reference to federal air marshals.

As the plane was in its final approach to Los Angeles, at the stage of a flight when even the flight attendants are strapped into their seats, "suddenly, seven of the men stood up in unison," Annie Jacobsen said. Some walked toward the back lavatories and some toward the front. Two stood by the aircraft door. The flight attendants remained silent, she said.

Then the plane landed without a problem. On hand were officers from the Federal Air Marshal Service, the FBI, the TSA and the Los Angeles police. The 14 men were questioned and released. The Jacobsens also were questioned for more than an hour.

"They were members of a Syrian band" traveling to a gig at a casino near Los Angeles, said Dave Adams, a Federal Air Marshal Service spokesman, adding that their names were run through "every possible" data bank and terrorist watch list.

"Nothing came back."

"This is an individual's perceptions," he said of Jacobsen's account of the flight. "Obviously, since 9/11, everybody's antennas have risen, and people are very concerned when they see something like this." He said that onboard air marshals didn't intervene because the men weren't interfering with the flight crew.

Even so, he said, he had no doubt that "most of the stuff did happen" as Jacobsen described it.

Annie Jacobsen isn't convinced. No one has disputed her facts, she said, and she asked why the Syrian band hadn't been identified. (I couldn't locate them, by the way). She wrote of receiving numerous e-mails from airline crew members, several of whom said they believed that terrorist-team dry runs had happened on flights. She said "political correctness" has become a "major roadblock for airline safety."



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[IFLYAAORD]

http://jetcareers.com/ubbthreads/sho...&fpart=all

[JEP]

Oops, I searched, but not for the womens mag. The article I read was just posted yesterday in the NY Times. I figured it was here. Oh well...

[kellwolf]

Couple of problems with this that make it sound like paranoia to me. I agree that the guys getting up, gathering in the galleys, and taking their McD's into the can is odd and suspicious. Here's a couple of things I think we're thrown in either for terror factor or just straight up paranoia:

[ QUOTE ]
These men were in communication with the first group, Jacobsen said, and "they all seemed to be checking in" with yellow shirt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, if they were a group (like, say, a Syrian band) I'm pretty sure they would speak to each other. If the guy in the yellow shirt was the chaperone/group leader/etc I think they would be required to check in with him so he could make sure everyone was on the plane. Anyone ever been on a school field trip? I know I had to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
Yellow shirt gave her a "cold, defiant look" when she caught his eye.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 'casue THAT means he's a terrorist. I give that same look to people that can't control their children. Maybe her 4 1/2 year old was kicking his seat.

[ QUOTE ]
"suddenly, seven of the men stood up in unison," Annie Jacobsen said. Some walked toward the back lavatories and some toward the front. Two stood by the aircraft door. The flight attendants remained silent, she said.

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So, the FAs ignored their duties? Sorry, I gotta throw the BS flag on that. I'd think (and HOPE) that if the FAs agreed that these guys were terrorists, they wouldn't stay strapped in without saying a word and let these guys wander the cabin at will. If there were Air Marshalls on board (and if this woman was told there were, THAT is a major violation), why weren't THEY doing anything. I'm thinking that the plane was already on the ground and taxiing to the gate when these guys got up. Technically, everyone is supposed to remain seated until the plane is at the gate, but I have yet to be on a flight where that happens.

[cime_sp]

Did it ever occur to anybody that the Muslims might be praying.....?

[kellwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Did it ever occur to anybody that the Muslims might be praying.....?

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A possibility, but I don't think the article mentions whether they are Muslim or not. Just 'cause they're middle eastern doesn't mean they're Muslim. The odds are very good, but there's no guarantee.

[tonyw]

Y'all wanna see a great article by a guy who actually got a paycheck from a major?

Ask the Pilot Article on Flight 327

The piece in question, "Terror in the Skies, Again?" is the work of Annie Jacobsen, a writer for WomensWallStreet.com. Jacobsen shares the account of the emotional meltdown she and her fellow passengers experienced when, aboard a Northwest Airlines flight from Detroit to Los Angeles, a group of Middle Eastern passengers proceeded to act "suspiciously." I'll invite you to experience "Terror" yourself, but be warned it's quite long. It needs to be, I suppose, since ultimately it's a story about nothing, puffed and aggrandized to appear important.

Air crews and passengers alike are thus prone to jumpiness should a certain template of race and behavior be filled. Jacobsen's folly is in not being able to step back from that jumpiness -- neither during the flight itself, at which point her worry and behavior are at least excusable, nor well after touching down safely. Speaking as a pilot, air travel columnist, and American, I find Jacobsen's 3,000-word ghost story of Arab boogeymen among the most overwrought and inflammatory tracts I've encountered in some time.

My own feelings on passenger profiling are mixed, and I'm not as liberal on the issue as you might expect. However, I do think singling out a specific ethnicity for extra screening is less a racist idea than a wasteful and ineffective one. Does it not occur to people that Muslim radicals come in all complexions and from many nations -- from the heart of black Africa to the archipelagoes of Southeast Asia? (Many Syrians, no less, are fair-haired and light-skinned.) Does it not occur to people that terrorists are clever, resourceful and, in the end, bound to outwit such obvious snares? The notion that 14 saboteurs, replete with silk-screened track suits effectively advertising themselves as such, would obviously and boisterously proceed in and out of an airplane lavatory, taking turns to construct a bomb, is so over-the-top ludicrous it deserves its own comedy sketch. Indeed, Jacobsen is trying to portray a scene of angst and fear, but she inadvertently scripts out a parody. I half-expected her to tell me that one of the men wore a cardboard sign labeled "TERRORIST."

[Doug Taylor]

Not to "Necropost" but here's a little more information on the event:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp

A pretty interesting read.

[tonyw]

Oh, but the plot thickens, Doug. Here's more from Salon's pilot.

Francis Volpe writes for the Sentinel, in Carlisle, Penn. Along with yours truly he was one of the few people to pen a less-than-gullible take on "Terror in the Skies Again?" Several days after his article ran, Volpe received an e-mail from something called the Federal Air Marshal Association (FAMA). Assuming it was a legitimate dispatch from a government agency, Volpe clicked open the letter. It read:

"You might want to read this about the 'innocent' 14 Syrian musicians and their leader, who were on NW Flight 327.

"Federal Air Marshal Association Media Relations Department"

FAMA harps heavily on the dry-run theory despite contrary assertions from its bosses. "There is no specific intelligence that terrorists are conducting test flights or surveillance activities on U.S. airliners. Period." That's not from National Public Radio, the New York Times, or al-Jazeera. Those are the words of David Adams, spokesperson for the Federal Air Marshals Service in Washington, D.C.

Adams is concerned about FAMA's influence and media appearances, but won't tip his hand as to how or whether his bureau will address the matter. He says of FAMA's executive director, Bob Flamm, "He is not a federal air marshal. And, honestly, I don't know for sure who he is or what he represents. FAMA's assertions are not borne out by facts, and the group is not sanctioned by the office of the Federal Air Marshals Service or our workforce."

Ask the Pilot

I swear, some people will do anything to push their agenda. Terrorists are out to get us, but these folks were NOT terrorists, according to the FBI and the Air Marshalls.

On top of that, I am thoroughly disgusted by Jacobsen's fear mongering, because it probably will keep fare paying customers -- who the airline industry needs -- off airplanes.

[flyover]

There has been a lot of followup on this story. It seems to fal into two camps. People who believe that any racial profiling is wrong see this as one hysterical racist woman. Thos who don't see a suspicious incident here. The onboard FAM admitted that he understood why people were upset based on the activity. Jacobsen has received some support from fellow passengers:

"What bothered me the most was when we were coming in [to Los Angeles Airport], that last half-hour. My daughter was very upset. I think they should have told those men to sit down. My daughter kept asking me 'why aren't they sitting down?' I was just trying to keep her calm. I was wondering, 'what is going on? The seat belt light is on, get in your seats.' That's when I thought there was really something going on. I figured at that point, even if they weren't armed, there were enough of them standing that they could break through the cockpit door."

"Suspicious?! Absolutely I thought it was suspicious. I fly a lot. I've never seen a flight with so much suspicious activity. A couple of these guys stood up talking to their buddies almost the whole flight. The flight attendant kept telling them to sit down. At one point right before landing -- they had already made the announcement we'd been cleared for landing -- she yelled, 'Sir, you need to sit down, now!' She actually was yelling at him. I've never seen that happen before. When I got off the plane, the first thing I did was call my wife and my parents. I said, turn on the TV, this is going to be big news."

I never felt like you did, like I was going to die on the plane, but I was concerned," Mark explained.

"My husband and I were making a business trip to Santa Monica/LA and departed from Detroit and flew on Northwest Flight #327 on June 29. Normally we are upgraded to first class but the flight was so full that day, we were in economy near the front of the cabin. My husband has a long career of traveling via planes for his work (overseas and in the USA). He immediately sensed there was an eerie feeling of something 'not quite right,' and even though we don't believe in any racial profiling, we had to be blind not to notice the interesting seating arrangement of the passengers and the corresponding ethnicities. They were seated in an almost 'Z' format and constantly checking watches, getting up and crossing the aisles to speak in hushed tones with very obvious Arabic passports (thick ones) in hand. My husband spent a good part of this very long flight standing in the galley (in fact, he could have been mistaken for an Air Marshal), and I have flown enough with him to know we were thinking alike."

So far, eight passengers have thought something suspicious and disturbing occurred on flight 327.

Heather described how at one point during the flight, a passenger from first class got out of his seat and began to walk toward the lavatory at the front of the first class cabin. One of the Syrian men (the man wearing the track suit) rushed in from coach class and literally pushed the first class passenger out of the way to get into the lavatory before him. The man wearing the track suit stayed in the lavatory a long time. Right after he left the lavatory, a man who Heather thought was an air marshal went into the lavatory.

Heather also said that the constant foot traffic and strange behavior she witnessed in the front cabin frightened her. "I thought I was going to die," is how she described her entire experience to The Washington Times.

The irony in all this is that one of the ways we are supposed to fight domestic terrorism is for citizens to be alert and aware of their surroundings. This woman has been demonized for doing so. So far the sympathy seems to go to the Syrian band. Especially ironic since Syria is one of only a few countries that officially supports terrorism and one of the bands most popular numbers is an ode to martyrs. I think, at the very least, these guys knew they were causing concern and really enjored it. And I think the bureacrats are playing CYA.

[tonyw]

What's it going to take, Dave?

You've got officials from the air marshalls saying in so many words that she is full of it. You've got the air marshall on the plane saying there was nothing going on. You've got the FBI saying that they questioned the people and let them go. You've got a confirmation from the casino that the people in question played the concert.

All against the word of one woman who seems more and more ridculous by the second.

Jacobsen cites Ann Coulter as a source of her information, for crying out loud. Yes, that Ann Coulter, the one who said that we should kill all Muslims and convert their women and children to Christianity.

Once I saw that, her credibility went right down the toilet.

And while it is true that Syria does sponsor terrorism, where are those terrorists focused? On Israel, not the United States.

[Doug Taylor]

Ann Coulter and the "Final Solution"? Sheesh, we'll see her in Nuremburg yet!

[UA_Wildcat]

Tony we need a source for this one? How about a "direct" quote?

ua

[tonyw]

Whoops! I gotta be fair to Coulter.

She didn't say kill all Muslims.

She said this:

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

National Review

But then, is it that much worse than what I thought she said? Not really.

[MikeD]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoops! I gotta be fair to Coulter.

She didn't say kill all Muslims.

She said this:

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.



National Review

But then, is it that much worse than what I thought she said? Not really.

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Should we also play some "Onward Christian Soldier" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic" too while we're at it invading? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[UA_Wildcat]

If you equate "Kill all Muslums" to what she actually said "kill their leaders", which if read in context to the article it was quoted from it was directed at the "homicidal maniacs", which is obviously in reference to countries that advocate terror (i.e. Syria, Iran etc.) or to radical organizations like the Taliban. Your reaching to far left on this one.

However, I do think her mention of conversion was a bit over the line, but then I looked at the date...(September 13, 2001) and I think as an American she had every right to express herself like this.

[TheShortOne]

yeah cause you know, american christians would never think of killing anyone [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[flyover]

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All against the word of one woman who seems more and more ridculous by the second.

Jacobsen cites Ann Coulter as a source of her information, for crying out loud. Yes, that Ann Coulter, the one who said that we should kill all Muslims and convert their women and children to Christianity.

Once I saw that, her credibility went right down the toilet.

And while it is true that Syria does sponsor terrorism, where are those terrorists focused? On Israel, not the United States.

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First of all there are other passengers who have come forward. Some have identified themselves.

Second, I never got any sense that you gave Jacobsen any credibility to start with.

Third, I love Ann Coulter's writing. Her obvious TIC point was that this was a mirror image of the goal of radical Islam.

Fourth, the FAM who spoke publicly about the incident said he understood why people were upset because of the activity aboard the airplane. That couldn't be any clearer. "This is an individual's perceptions," he said of Jacobsen's account of the flight. "Obviously, since 9/11, everybody's antennas have risen, and people are very concerned when they see something like this." He said that onboard air marshals didn't intervene because the men weren't interfering with the flight crew.

Even so, he said, he had no doubt that "most of the stuff did happen" as Jacobsen described it.

Fifth, if the problem was this one woman passenger then she should have gotten the attention of the authorities. Instead, the FAM onboard searched the lav after one lengthy stay, then ordered the captain to alert authorites to stand by. This flies in the face of any assertion that there was nothing going on. If there was nothing but innocent activity this FAM was way, way out of line.

I had passengers come to me with concerns about "suspicious" indivduals on flights. After listening to their concern and finding them to be strictly based on perceived nationality of the "suspect" I handled the complaining passenger, not their target.

But the good thing is you have such complete confidence in the TSA people to give the straight story. This blind faith is important because they won't make any mistakes and shouldn't be treated with any skepticism.

And as for the "selective terrorism" of the Syrians, I don't view anyone who advocates blowing up civilians as any kind of friend to me and mine. What if they mistook me for being Jewish? What if (gasp) they are racists?

The more I hear about this story the more it rings true.

[UA_Wildcat]

Who do you lump into your american christians category?

[jtrain609]

Maybe people that are American and Christian. The definition is in the sentence, but maybe you missed it.

Examples? How about Tim McVeigh? Maybe that dude that was just executed in Florida not too long ago for blowing up aborition clinics? He was praising Jesus and doing The Lord's work all while blowing up innocent people.

Oh but that's not what the Bible says! Funny, that's not what the Quran says either but these psycho's still get lumped in with American Christians in the same way these crazy's are lumped together with Arab Muslims, eh?

I think I just sent this one to the lav.

Cheers


John Herreshoff

[jtrain609]

flyover,


How about Marylin Manson? Would you think he's out to kill the pope based on his lyrics? Might want to check out some of the lyrics to the tune 1996 off of Anti-Christ Superstar.

How about the singer from Otep? Does she want to kill all the men of the world? Probably not, but she was raped and it shows in the song Filthee.

How about KorN? I don't even need to say much about that one for anyone that listens to old KoRn as they would know the meaning of track 6 off of the first album as much as me. This song means something different to every person that listens to it.

Or even System of a Down, the politically charged band that hates the Bush administration.

---------

Was it the riches, of the land,
Powers of bright darkness,
That lead the noble, to the East,
To fight the heathens

We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens
We will fight the heathens, We will fight the heathens

We must call upon our bright darkness,
Beliefs, they're the bullets of the wicked,
One was written on the sword,
For you must enter a room to destroy it,
International security,
Call of the righteous man,
Needs a reason to kill man,
History teaches us so,
The reason he must attain,
Must be approved by his God,
His child, partisan brother of war

---------

Does this mean System of a Down is advocating killing American's? Nope, not in the least; it's a reference to the Turk's slaughtering Armenian's I believe. Didn't help that the singer grew up in Beirut while there was some decent fighting going on there.

My point? Don't make assumptions about someone's music because you read the lyrics and took one single solitary meaning out of them. I can point to you countless examples where you would misinterpit the meaning of a bunch of the bands that I listen to, and take very seriously. Unless you can tell me you speak some Arabic and are really digging on these dudes tunes then you probably don't have much of a base to make your statement.

Cheers


John Herreshoff

[flyover]

This is nothing about music. I could care less. This is about a woman being villified for being suspicious about the activities of 14 Syrian men on her flight. She was supposed to ignore such things.

The fact that she included in her observations and assessment that these guys were middle-eastern (a correct assumption) is cause for a hysterical condemnation. If she had been observing a girl's college volleyball team and been alarmed, this apparently would have been OK. Norman Minetta must have just about blown a cork when he found out these guys were middle-eastern. He specifically does not want any Arabs suspected of anything. It's the Inspector Clouseau approach with any Arabs being Maria Gambrelli, absolutely no chance they are guilty. (This is my version of pop culture, you can have Marylin Manson).

The only way this woman could have been any more villified is if she had been one of Kerry's swift boat commanders.

(In a particuarly cranky mood bacause I'm tiling my bathroom).

[Windchill]

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Terrorists are out to get us, but these folks were NOT terrorists, according to the FBI and the Air Marshalls.

On top of that, I am thoroughly disgusted by Jacobsen's fear mongering

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It's easy to say that after the fact, after the background checks . . . but when one is in the air . . . with susupicious activity going on from no matter who . . . one's level of uncomfortability SHOULD raise! It's a natural reaction.

Before you know people are clean, and you're in an environment where you do not have much control, it's VERY reasonable for her alarm to go off.

Why are people making her out to be the bad guy? In today's world, one should always maintain a heightened sense of vigilance . . . especially when out of one's own comfort zone.

If you are so naive to ignore any potential warning signs, you open increase your vulnerability and set your self up for whatever harm comes your way.

[jtrain609]

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And as for the "selective terrorism" of the Syrians, I don't view anyone who advocates blowing up civilians as any kind of friend to me and mine.

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This is nothing about music. I could care less.

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You've made it about music, not me. I'm picking apart one small little part of your post.

So does Manson want to kill the pope?

[kellwolf]

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This is nothing about music. I could care less. This is about a woman being villified for being suspicious about the activities of 14 Syrian men on her flight. She was supposed to ignore such things.

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There's a difference between being suspicious and inciting panic. She crossed the line. Suspicious people alert the proper channels, and keep watch on what's going on until better qualified personnel are on the scene. Panic inciters alert the proper channels, the media and whoever else will listen. If they are told that they were wrong and shown evidence contrary to what they were thinking, it doesn't matter. They still COULD have been right, and maybe they were. Hence when she was told they were musicians, she was still insisting it was a "dry run." We already have enough panic in the streets at every loud noise and person wearing a turban. We don't need this nutcase making it worse.