Outstations

[tlove482]

I was looking at Ameriflight and I saw they have Outstation positions available. I don't really understand the whole concept. Can someone please explain what an outstation is and how it works?

[tbmpilot]

Originally Posted by tlove482

I was looking at Ameriflight and I saw they have Outstation positions available. I don't really understand the whole concept. Can someone please explain what an outstation is and how it works?

search "outstation" in this forum - it's been discussed ad nauseum

[tlove482]

I've done that search before, but it doesn't really tell me what I want to know. Do you come home everyday? What's the big disadvantage of it? That sort of stuff.

[KLB]

Do you come home everyday? Yes you are home either during the day or at night.

What's the big disadvantage of it? They are hard to get out off to upgrade to other equipment. The good outstations always go senior. You can't leave to get into other equipment until you get replaced by someone else.

[tbmpilot]

Originally Posted by tlove482

Do you come home everyday?

OUTSTATIONS FOR DUMMIES - The definitive quide to a lame-ass life

The question has been asked - "Do you come home everyday?" Depends on where home is.

Do you live in the outstation city? If so, you're home from Saturday morning through Monday afternoon and Tuesday through Friday during the day, if you're on a typical UPS run. You overnight in a crew apartment in the base city, for example, ONT, PDX, PHX.

Do you live in the base city? If so, then you're home every night and you just don't use the crew apartment, or if you're single, you use the crew apartment to avoid housing costs in the base city. You find a place to hang out during the day in the outstation city (you'd better keep a vehicle there or you are screwed). You drive from the base city to the outstation city on Monday and back on Saturday (at least 2 hours, maybe 5-6). If you're sneaky, you stay in the crew apartment over the weekend (see housing cost avoidance strategy above).

Do you live somewhere else other than the outstation city or the base city? If you do, it's probably because you have a girlfriend or family somewhere, and you're thinking this is just a temporary gig and they won't care about only seeing you for 36 hours a week, 16 of which will be used to catch up on sleep. If this is your situation, you figure out a way to commute to the outstation city on Monday and back home on Saturday, your life essentially sucks, and you probably have NO life because you don't know anyone in either city and you stay in a crummy crew apartment at night (sometimes for as few as six hours - you're getting required rest during the day at the outstation).

BTW, if you think you are going to jumpseat to the outstation city on some airline, think again because many of the outstation cities don't have airline service, and if they do, it's not Southwest, which seems to be the only airline that takes AMF jumpseaters. I have not had luck on either Horizon or Skywest. What does this mean? You have to jumpseat to the base city on Southwest and keep a car there so you can drive to the outstation (see all the notes above about the drive to the outstation), and your life REALLY sucks. Oh, I forgot to mention that if you commute to the outstation, the company has a policy that you have to be there 4 HOURS BEFORE the normal show time on Monday, so basically around noon. Did I mention that your life sucks?

Many Ameriflight runs look something like this:

Work 3 hours, off 8 hours, work 3 hours, off 10 hours. Repeat continuously for six days, except that you get paid for five because it's half days on Monday and Saturday.

If you're not completely confused now, or if you don't live in the outstation city AND this still sounds like a good idea then come sip some kool-aid with me...

[will_fly_for_bandwith]

Thanks for the info

[tlove482]

Thank you TBM, I think that pretty much answers my questions. I guess I don't want to live at an outstation. Actually, if all freight companies work like this then I don't think that is the kind of flying I want to do.

[tbmpilot]

Originally Posted by tlove482

I guess I don't want to live at an outstation. Actually, if all freight companies work like this then I don't think that is the kind of flying I want to do.

You may have missed my point. If you take an outstation run, you DO want to live in the outstation city, otherwise your life sucks.

Good reasons for taking an outstation:

1. You can bypass the seniority system and move directly to turbine equipment.
2. I can't think of anything else. Refer to reason 1.

Some outstation runs don't give you more than 8-9 hours of flying per week, but hey, they have great QOL. (Yeah right - ). See KLBs point above that the decent outstations are snapped up by senior pilots.

[citabriapilot]

I had an outstation for my last year at AMF. It was probably the best QOL I had there.

Yes, it was senior (E120 capt.), but the FO's go way junior. I chose to live at the outstation in Midland, I was home all day from 8am-ish to 6pm-ish, off completely from Saturday morning till Monday night.

Outstations are great for people with families because you get to see them all day rather than just a few hours at night. You have time to do things, run errands, etc.

Downside is you never sleep in your own bed at night except on the weekends. Not a big deal for a single person.

Now, the Brasilia outstations are probably a little better since we served larger cities. I know some of the BE-99 cities and Metro cities suck pretty bad. Either way, it's all of what you make of it. The people that complain the most are those who weren't willing to live in the outstation and did the whole commute thing back and forth on the weekends. Makes for a pretty shatty lifestyle.

[Old Dominion Flyer]

I've searched the forums as well as APC and I'm coming up short with outstation info. I've seen the routemap on the AMF website and the cities in red appear to be the bases. Am I correct in thinking that EACH of the smaller cities associated with the base is an outstation? If so, is it possible to be based at ANY outstation?

[citabriapilot]

Yes and no.

The majority of AMF flying is that you fly from a hub base (BUR, ONT, OAK, PDX, BFI, SLC, DFW, CVG, PHX) to an outstation and layover for the day in a company provided hotel then fly back to the hub base (your home).

However, the "outstation" you are referring to is set up that way due to the type of schedule that the customer (usually UPS) wants. Generally it's a Monday night through Sat. morning type schedule rather than a typical Monday-Friday. Because the aircraft remains in the outstation over the weekend, they make it an "outstation" and expect you to live there. This way they aren't flying an empty airplane back to base over the weekend and then back out on Monday night. They aren't going to buy you a ticket back to base for that either, so they just make the flight "outstationed" and you live there and layover at night in the base city rather than vice versa.

For example - Think of the Midland outstation as being MIDLAND based, not Dallas based. You originate in Midland and only layover in Dallas rather than vice versa.

Clear as mud?

Here's a list I came up with of outstations where they want you to live out there:

MAF - E120 to Dallas.
LBB - E120 to Dallas
AMA - E120 to Dallas
PPA - PA31 to Dallas
F05 - PA31 to Dallas
CRP - Metro to Austin
CRP - Metro to San Antonio
Altus - PA31 outstation to OKC

IDA - BE99 outstation to SLC (everything else in SLC is BASED in SLC)

PHX has a few, Kingman being one (Metro or 1900).

ONT has a few, namely Bakersfield and Visalia

Medford, Klamath Falls, Redmond and La Grande are all outstationed runs that layover in PDX.

Keep in mind that outstationed pilots pretty much "own" their runs and cannot be bumped off by someone of higher seniority unless they choose to give it up. If you see something on the AMF employment openings page that specifies a certain type of aircraft in a specific city that is NOT one of the main bases, than it is probably an open outstation. Generally you will be hired into a base unless you specifically request the outstation.

[gomntwins]

I'm not an ameriflight pilot, but I am an outstation based pilot for another freight company flying UPS freight. It's really a pretty good deal. Unless you have some obsession with needing to get all of your sleep in your own bed, it's wonderful. I sleep in a crew apartment every night... get 6-7 hours of sleep there. But, I'm at home every day-- all day. It's hard to find a job where you'll be at home this much. In my opinion, once you actually fall asleep, it doesn't matter where you are. The bad deal: if you're married, you won't actually sleep with your signficant other a whole lot. It will prime them for the life of an airline pilot though. Other outstation married pilots really enjoy this schedule though--- they spend all day at home with their kids (very young), and their wife takes over in the evening until morning. No expense for child care (although you do need a backup always in case the weather is horrible)... a lot of time raising your own kids, and guaranteed sleep once you get to the company apartment.

[tlove482]

Thanks, everyone has been so helpful.

[KLB]

I'll like to add one more thing. You may like some outstations that some people may think aren't the greatest places to be for them. My advice would be to do a thorough research of the town/city/community to see if how you would like living there. Thats the biggest mistake that pilots make when the bid for and accept the outstations. If you choose an outstation, you're going to be there for atleast six months...make sure you at least like where you live. It will make your life at AMF a lot better.