Is it even worth mentioning?

[Ian J]

Honest question here. I *try* and read the posts from the newbies just starting out to see if I can help out in anyway. Usually, they're asking about the quickest way to a regional jet job. That's fine - I'm not terribly against that - different strokes for different folks, as long as their path teaches them to be aviators and decision-makers.

But I often wonder if they've ever even heard of or considered the part 135 freight world as an alternative, and sometimes throw a plug in just in case. 9 times out of 10, no response - or at the most, a "no thanks, not for me."

I was just reading a thread about a guy who was training in a DA-42 who marveled at only having two levers to worry about and who praised the G1000. I almost typed a reply about that being a detriment if he ever goes freight, but didn't after I realized there is no way this guy would want to fly freight ever.

So is it really worth plugging? Does freight pretty much get their pilots from people who always wanted to do it anyway? Has any student pilot dead-set on jet flying ever been swooned over to the dark side? Just curious.

EDIT: The first person who is smaller and weaker than me who turns this into a regional v. freight bitchfest is getting an ass-whoopin'!

[mikecweb]

Regionals rock.
Freight Sux.
RJs4LyFe.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Regionals rock.
Freight Sux.
RJs4LyFe.

I don't know if you could whoop up on me or not, but I'm pretty sure I could out run you if you could.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Ian J

I don't know if you could whoop up on me or not, but I'm pretty sure I could out run you if you could.

It's on like Donkey Kong.


As far as the original question. We've been holding classes of 12 with a majority being PICs. Either they are slipping something in their drink at lunch during the interview or people want to fly here. The Flight Dept. proposes we'll be fully staffed by April 1st. Once that happens a little butterfly told me we'll see alot of new things on the horizon.

[KLB]

I think some flight schools and accelerated programs advertise towards getting their students prepared for the regionals. I've only been flying for about seven and a half years now, but I remember when some of my instructors had to get in upwards of 2000 hrs to even be competive to get into a regional. You would had been lucky to get a company like Airnet or Ameriflight to look at you with less than 1500 hrs and 150-200 multi.

With the regionals hiring at such low times, some people just think that it's too much work trying to build time to get hired at a 135 operator. I've had people tell me this before.


The funny thing about this is that I believe it would be a whole lot easier to transition from what I'm flying now to a regional aircraft than the other way around.

We've had some pretty decent size classes also!

[Ian J]

I've heard that about our staffing - and it's awesome.

I've also heard from the butterfly too - we shall see!

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by KLB

With the regionals hiring at such low times, some people just think that it's too much work trying to build time to get hired at a 135 operator. I've had people tell me this before.

Honestly, it is. If someone wants to work for a regional it doesn't make much sense to build 1200 hours for a part 135. (Except that it will probably give you invaluable experience, but at the loss of airline seniority.)

[dhc2tacksby]

I have the sense that newer pilots are still eyeing the 767 and 777's. They see there fastest way to Delta and American through whatever RJ will have them. Mostly at the expense of expirience behind the controls.

Instead of cutting your teeth instructing to 135 mins, getting 2-3000 hours then flying the RJ, you can nearly go direct from flight school.

Where do you want to end up in 10-20 years?

[SaberFlyer]

Hey Ian J,

I use to be one of those students that wanted to go the quick route, but recently changed my decision. I am going to become a CFI and then go through the "traditional" route of flying freight for a while to get some multi experience, build considerably good hours and then moving on maybe with the airlines. Can you help me out with some insights about becoming a freight pilot if I wanted to. I will be inexperienced and probably have really low amounts of time as ME goes. I think I know the difference between part 135 and 121 but if you can also re clarify that would be helpful as well.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by SaberFlyer

Hey Ian J,

I use to be one of those students that wanted to go the quick route, but recently changed my decision. I am going to become a CFI and then go through the "traditional" route of flying freight for a while to get some multi experience, build considerably good hours and then moving on maybe with the airlines. Can you help me out with some insights about becoming a freight pilot if I wanted to. I will be inexperienced and probably have really low amounts of time as ME goes. I think I know the difference between part 135 and 121 but if you can also re clarify that would be helpful as well.

121 and 135 refer to parts in the Federal Aviation Regulations under which different kind of companies operate.

In a nutshell, 121 is scheduled operations and include passenger and non-passenger ops. Examples are regional airlines, major airlines, and freight outfits such as UPS.

135 is "on demand" or "unscheduled" operations which also include passenger and non-passenger ops. Examples are freight companies, and charter companies.

As for insights into becoming a freight pilot - what would you like to know?

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Ian J

So is it really worth plugging? Does freight pretty much get their pilots from people who always wanted to do it anyway? Has any student pilot dead-set on jet flying ever been swooned over to the dark side? Just curious.

It is worth it. I'm no newbie to JC, but I still don't have any flight hours and even though I've researched the subject until my eyes bleed I am still undecided which route I will take. I know for sure I want to CFI for a while but I will be undecided on where I will go after that once I have enough hours to actually be marketable.

Though many of these kids have SJS, your input on the other options in the field is a great resource. I certainly appreciate it.

[GalaxyIFE]

Originally Posted by Ian J

So is it really worth plugging? Does freight pretty much get their pilots from people who always wanted to do it anyway? Has any student pilot dead-set on jet flying ever been swooned over to the dark side? Just curious.

I’ll throw in my .02 for what it’s worth. Long story not so long, back in the late 90’s I wanted nothing else but to fly for a legacy…the dream was left over from the days of being a kid (like most others here, I know). I had been in the AF for 5-6 years and had friends that were punching out and doing the “accelerated route” to get on with a commuter (sorry, had to use the term). I was hell bent and determined to get a loan and be in the right seat of an EMB-120 as fast as I could. Well, marriage issues, money issues, etc. got in the way and ultimately 9/11 happened. So, here I am today…less than 5 years to AF retirement and more importantly a lifelong pension. Now, before I spent any real time researching (most via JC, thanks guys!) you could say I was all about the SJS. Get on with a “specific” regional and stick it out there...I was not even considering the legacies anymore. I am good buddies with a guy who is at the regional I wanted to get on with who has been with them forever…I liked his lifestyle, and I was all over it. Now...because of the insightfulness of those on JC, I am steering towards 135 seriously…it really seems like my cup of tea and I think I could do without all the iPod wearing fools. So, I guess to answer your question as a pseudo FNG, yes, your inputs about flying freight do make an impact in the decision making process…again, just my .02.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Ian J

As for insights into becoming a freight pilot - what would you like to know?

How do you handle the flock of women that meet the plane in the morning? I was beating them away with a stick, but the women's rights nutso got pissed off. Then I set up a lottery system but they were claiming it was fixed. Any ideas?

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

How do you handle the flock of women that meet the plane in the morning? I was beating them away with a stick, but the women's rights nutso got pissed off. Then I set up a lottery system but they were claiming it was fixed. Any ideas?

My technique is to take on less fuel so I can load more women. Who needs a stupid 45 minute reserve anyway? I'm a freight pilot - I don't need reserves. Unless those reserves are made of women. Or donuts.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by pedex

It is worth it. I'm no newbie to JC, but I still don't have any flight hours and even though I've researched the subject until my eyes bleed I am still undecided which route I will take. I know for sure I want to CFI for a while but I will be undecided on where I will go after that once I have enough hours to actually be marketable.

Though many of these kids have SJS, your input on the other options in the field is a great resource. I certainly appreciate it.

Originally Posted by GalaxyIFE

I’ll throw in my .02 for what it’s worth. Long story not so long, back in the late 90’s I wanted nothing else but to fly for a legacy…the dream was left over from the days of being a kid (like most others here, I know). I had been in the AF for 5-6 years and had friends that were punching out and doing the “accelerated route” to get on with a commuter (sorry, had to use the term). I was hell bent and determined to get a loan and be in the right seat of an EMB-120 as fast as I could. Well, marriage issues, money issues, etc. got in the way and ultimately 9/11 happened. So, here I am today…less than 5 years to AF retirement and more importantly a lifelong pension. Now, before I spent any real time researching (most via JC, thanks guys!) you could say I was all about the SJS. Get on with a “specific” regional and stick it out there...I was not even considering the legacies anymore. I am good buddies with a guy who is at the regional I wanted to get on with who has been with them forever…I liked his lifestyle, and I was all over it. Now...because of the insightfulness of those on JC, I am steering towards 135 seriously…it really seems like my cup of tea and I think I could do without all the iPod wearing fools. So, I guess to answer your question as a pseudo FNG, yes, your inputs about flying freight do make an impact in the decision making process…again, just my .02.

That's awesome guys and really good to hear - just to clarify though - this thread isn't really about MY insights on freight. I've got only 6 months at one company in the civilian world. There's tons more insight on this board than me.

[BuickCFI]

all slots filled by April 1st? i better make my mind up quick as to what i want to do!

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by dhc2tacksby

Where do you want to end up in 10-20 years?

I think that it a very hard question for anyone to ask themselves, simply no one knows what is going to happen in the future.

Ian, not to be the I want to be a freight dawg ruck fjs fan club here, but when I talk to people not even mentioning I would highly consider flying freight, they say screw that or nah, not for me. I still don't know why, guess its another slot for me in the future?

[ljg]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

How do you handle the flock of women that meet the plane in the morning? I was beating them away with a stick, but the women's rights nutso got pissed off. Then I set up a lottery system but they were claiming it was fixed. Any ideas?

It's probably due to all your radioactive exposure from handling nukes on 151, a problem you'll have to deal with the rest of your life. The same thing happens to me every morning in TEB when I pull in. But, it's not a big deal for me personally because I've seen mules who aren't as ugly as the women who live in New Jersey. The movie "I am legend" provides some great pointers on how to fend them off.

[Beech driver]

As an 8 month CFI, I have seen this with a couple of students. All they want to do is finish the PPL so they can go off to ATP and get the remaining ratings for an airline. I have yet to hear someone say they want to fly 135. I would agree that some of it is how the flight schools advertise the program. Another part is they simply don't see any other way to earn a paycheck in the air. One has gone so far to say he has zero intention of teaching others to fly.
Personally, I always wanted to fly for an airline. However, that has begun to change. Where many people only see the airlines, I am much more into keeping an open mind. I often find myself wondering where that King Air, Citation, etc. is going more so than the airline flying over me. Have I completely been swooned over to the dark side? Not yet. But knowing that I will have the 135 mins by around mid summer definitely opens up some new thinking.

[Swen]

In my case, as in most people's cases, they have this dream of wanting to be a pilot at a very young age. At that point, being a pilot meant working for an airline and nothing else; all they know about in regards to the pilot profession is through what is fed to them. Frequently, non-flying people looked at airline pilots as this sort of glorified icon sitting right next to Buddha. It was a sort of envy or jealousy, all brought on my the same cause.

That cause would be the Media in all contexts, not just TV. Was there ever a movie that portrayed a professional pilot as being some uneducated poor bastard? What about a news article? Has the position of a pilot never made the list of most adored profession? My point is that whenever someone hears or reads the word pilot, it is nearly always connected to an airline pilot. Recently a teenager found out a I was a pilot then proceeded to ask me who I fly for. He was damn surprised to learn I don't work for an airline; much less that I don't even make any money doing it yet.

As soon as a movie or TV show depicts a freight pilot as making 100k a year and doing the horizontal pogo with every blond chick in sight, they'll come flocking. All(most) the dreamers out there just don't know about freight. When the word pilot is no longer associated as being an airline pilot and loses the connotations tied to it, the dreams will start changing.

[ljg]

These are good responses you're getting Ian. Seriously, my response to you would be that the 135 regulations need to be reworked and rewritten. Providing barriers to entry and more oversight (more Govt oversight, am I really saying this?) will weed out the Mom and Pop companies that stigmatize the legitimate operators in this industry as unprofessional and unsafe. They probably could also implement SIC minimum flight time requirements for 121 button pushers and you would see people flock to Ameriflight and Airnet.

[SaberFlyer]

Quote: As for insights into becoming a freight pilot - what would you like to know?

Well, say I became a CFI and started teaching. On the side I get my ME rating but kept on teaching. What is my chance of flying an ME at a freight company?. Do I have to build time as a single engine pilot or can I just become a FO (if it is called that in the freight world) on a ME airplane. Like I said my goal is to become an airline pilot (at least now) but I am in no rush to get there. I like flying and I'd like to experience most of it. So having said that, lets say I'm a CFI with 400 hrs by this time next year. What would you recommend me doing? ie: build more time and apply? or try going in with a small freight company? I hope I was able to explain myself.

Thanks

[minitour]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

As far as the original question. We've been holding classes of 12 with a majority being PICs. Either they are slipping something in their drink at lunch during the interview or people want to fly here. The Flight Dept. proposes we'll be fully staffed by April 1st. Once that happens a little butterfly told me we'll see alot of new things on the horizon.

So I should chew up all of the overtime scheduling will give me while I still can?

That's perfect...it'll end right at the start of golf season. Doesn't get much better than that.

-mini

[EatSleepFly]

Originally Posted by Ian J

So is it really worth plugging?

Probably not unless someone asks about it. I've pretty much given up. Every time I used to bring it up, some "expert" would me how it really is, so what's the point? 500 hour wonders telling me that I would never be competitive anywhere without glass time, my turbine PIC is worthless, nobody goes from 135 freight to majors, blah blah blah. My blood pressure went way down when I just stopped caring about offering a different perspective and defending my ideas and opinions. The fact of the matter is Jetcareers is very (almost exclusively) airline-oriented, there isn't much interest in anything else. On the flip side, JC is only a tiny percentage of the pilots and wannabes out there, as evidenced by freight haulers still filling classes.

[KLB]

I usually don't plug Freight flying in the regional threads because it usually leads to the epic "freight vs. regionals" arguements. When I hear some of the regionals pilots complain about some of the things they hate about there jobs, I really want to give them a good smack in the back of the head. And then maybe they could consider that they are into the wrong type of flying..... That freight may be a better fit for them.

The old stigma that freight pilot don't get hired by the big boys is another misconception out there. Plenty of our pilots get picked by the majors. It just happens in smaller numbers. The only reason for that is because, I don't know about Airnet, but Amflight's pilot group is only 200 strong.

As someone else mentioned, the few sucky companies that don't have a real training program, pushy management, and poorly maintained aircraft gives all other quality operators a bad name.