Cargo vs Regional

[SJM]

We mentioned in another thread the benefits of flying cargo vs. regionals. How about the other way around?

What are the advantages of regional over cargo? (if any )

[Piperflyer]

I assume you are talking about part 135 cargo.
For me I like the flight bennies, more days off, sleeping at night. Other than that the PIC potential with cargo is really attractive

[MSUDAWG]

Originally Posted by Piperflyer

I assume you are talking about part 135 cargo.
For me I like the flight bennies, more days off, sleeping at night. Other than that the PIC potential with cargo is really attractive

That is EXACTLY right....Each person should weigh what is more important to them. Basically with 135 cargo, ME Turbine PIC comes very quick.(depending on which operator you are at) That is the route I am doing and only for the PIC time. Although it makes me wanna leave and go to the regionals when I talk to my friends and they tell me they have 15-19 days off per month and fly during the day. Oh well, I hope im in a good spot at 23 as I should be upgrading by May.

[WalterSobchak]

All depends on where you want to end up. There are certain hoops you have to dance through to get certain places. Overall due to the structure of 121 having 121 PIC is the biggest resume helper. I was a freightdog for 4 years and realized to get to the majors I needed to get 121 time. Doesn't lessen the experience you get from 135. It's just that 121 is a lot easier to get now a days with more 121 operators. All the 135 time people used to get flying 1900's,Bandits,99's,Metro's is now pretty much 121 pax. Turbine PIC is not all equall in the eyes of the HR people. Those are the people who matter when applying for a job. Then again airlines are not for every one and thats a fact!

[MSUDAWG]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

Overall due to the structure of 121 having 121 PIC is the biggest resume helper. I was a freightdog for 4 years and realized to get to the majors I needed to get 121 time.

Ehhh, where did you hear this and I cant believe you actually believed it? With all do respect and not trying to argue at all, that is probably the biggest crock and myth in this profession...You dont "need" 121 time to get hired by a major, it wont hurt, but its not like you wont get a job without having it....I know PLENTY of people who have gone from 135 freight, part 91 corporate operators, and 135 charter to MAJOR airlines and not a single one of them had ANY 121 time. The needing 121 time is nothing more than a myth...Interviewers will tell you straight forward 1000 TPIC is 1000 TPIC and that motoring along carrying passengers and requesting pushback has no better weight to it on a resume than the other guy who didnt do 121..

[jtrain609]

I've been on both sides of this fence, first as a training captain at Amflight and now as an FO at Express.

Amflight was a great job for the most part, and the quality of time you were getting was great. I had the oppertunity to build twin, turbine PIC time from 1,200 hours onward and I would have hit Southwest mins by the time I was like 26 or 27 years old, and I would have had one or two type ratings under my belt. The schedule for line pilots is screwy as heck, and you end up sleeping 4 hours during the day, 4 hours duome you need to have A LOT of seniority to hold them. You can go system TDY and not fly into the same places all the time and probably have a little bit better schedule, but you'll be gone for 3 weeks at a time and back for 1 week. You'll fly some awesome airplanes and work with some good folks, but as far as I'm concerned the QOL hit isn't worth it. If you're single and willing to move around the country, then it could be the best thing you could possibly do for your career. If, on the other hand, you are not willing to make those QOL sacrafices, then the regionals have some advantages.

At Express I'm home more than I was when I was at Amflight. I don't mean nights in my actual bed, I mean time that I can actually spend at home enjoying my time off. Even with a commute that is taking me from Salt Lake City to Newark, NJ, I'm seeing my fiance more than if I was flying with Amflight in Salt Lake. Now somebody is going to come on here and say, "That isn't true, blah blah blah," but it's true. I don't consider the 5 minutes before I pass out and go to sleep because I'm fatigued to be quality time with my girl, and Express has allowed me to spend more time with her. Second year, I'll be making more than an Amflight Metro captain. Upgrade will take longer, but I'll have a better schedule here and I'll be able to enjoy my life instead of hate my life because all I'm doing is working. I'm not one of these guys that likes the idea of working myself to death, and my schedule at Express has been much easier. It'll take longer to get to a mainline carrier, but I've accpted that it's worth it to me to take a little longer to get to a mainline carrier and enjoy the ride, than to bust balls getting there and be bitter and jaded once I get there, which was the path I was on.

Both routes will work, and both have their advantages and disadvantages. It's just a matter of what you're after. If you CAN hack the freight life, I'd absoluetly go that route. If you can't, get to a regional that will treat you well and dig in.

[KLB]

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Second year, I'll be making more than an Amflight Metro captain.

I bet you a cup of Roman Noodles that your second year pay will not be more than I'm making right now. You feeling lucky? Do yah? Do yah punk?



Disclaimer: Jtrain is a close friend. Not in any way do I actually think he's a punk. It is only a joke.

[jtrain609]

I sure do! Our FO's have cleared $60,000 in their second year if they're busting butt. You've gotta be a Bro captain to make that at Amflight!

BTW When's Metro school man? Austin's heading up in a few days.

[KLB]

I could pull sixty, but I would have no life and would never see home. We have had 99 captain making over 70 and we have a metro captain who been pulling over 8 grand a month. Theres even a chieftan guy who's puling about 4 grand a month. It can happen here. You just got to know how to work the system. Its all about the hustle and the grind.

I'll be in class with Pfactor8 on monday.

[jtrain609]

Screw the hustle! I like my days off, thank you very much. I've got this cute little girl that I like to see every once in a while

Enjoy class man, I'm jealous that you guys are going to go fly that piece of ####!

[KLB]

I believe I might have had more days off than you last month (January). I had 15 days off during December. With the exception of being sent TDY every once in a while, I don't believe your roomate ever works . Yeah I believe he's a lazy ski bum. You can tell him that I said that.

Admitt it Hasslehoffe, your life sucks. Now kneel before my freight greatness.

[jtrain609]

Man I wish it wasn't true, but my life couldn't better since I left Amflight! I was one miserable guy there, and for all the things that are jacked about this job, I'll take it.

[JayAre]

Blah blah blah......


It all depends on what fits your needs at home. Im working 4 day work weeks with 2 days reserve. Home every night, but it can change at the drop of a hat. We lost two 99 drivers in the last month who had only been here less than six months.

Some people can't hack 135 freight some can. For some reason I enjoy it but sure would like to be flying two crew sometimes.

I would like more flight benefits such as the regional drivers have but SWA will just about get you were you need to go most of the time.

Sometimes I enjoy being away all day long from the wife and kids. Yes she knows this and she also likes me out of the house too.


As for 135 TPIC time usless I don't agree with that. Plenty of AMF'ers have moved on 2 to Cont, 1 Alaska, 5? Allegiant.....Marshall will know the exact numbers of who has moved to what in the last year or two. For me who knows the only ones on my radar is LifeFlight, Delta, NetJets or walk away and buy a business.

So John when we gonna hang?

[JayAre]

Originally Posted by KLB

I don't believe your roomate ever works . Yeah I believe he's a lazy ski bum. You can tell him that I said that.

Nah he is working..He should fly JAC and ski there during the layover.

[jtrain609]

We're having a bunch of JCers out on the 12th and 13th, you wanna come hang then?

[JayAre]

Thats midweek, I don't think so my son has that weekend off and first of the week after. Were trying to get at least three days in a row to get the h e double hockey sticks away from Salt Lake and to Sunny side of Utah.

[jtrain609]

Word. I'll call you in about a year when I've got weekends off

[30West]

In the 3.5 years I flew freight I almost never worked a weekend. Anyone that skips flying freight is seriously missing an amazing experience, and alot of fun. No to mention that it makes a real man out of you(or woman), you cant beat it when you jumpseat on southwest with an old airline metro pilot and he gives you a crazy look and says "you fly that thing SINGLE PILOT?"

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by MSUDAWG

Ehhh, where did you hear this and I cant believe you actually believed it? With all do respect and not trying to argue at all, that is probably the biggest crock and myth in this profession...You dont "need" 121 time to get hired by a major, it wont hurt, but its not like you wont get a job without having it....I know PLENTY of people who have gone from 135 freight, part 91 corporate operators, and 135 charter to MAJOR airlines and not a single one of them had ANY 121 time. The needing 121 time is nothing more than a myth...Interviewers will tell you straight forward 1000 TPIC is 1000 TPIC and that motoring along carrying passengers and requesting pushback has no better weight to it on a resume than the other guy who didnt do 121..

Spoken by some one who has no clue about 121 first hand. I have done both. There is a heck of a lot more to 121 than requesting a push.

Lets do averages here. Yes SOME people make it to majors from the 135 world. The quality of life at 121 is much better. You have more days off and the pay argument isn't reality. You make more money with more days off at a regional.

[Boris Badenov]

The quality of life at 121 is much better. You have more days off and the pay argument isn't reality.

Someone should tell that to my W2. And my girlfriend. I sleep in my bed every night (OK, day). I work four (week) days (ok, ok...NIGHTS) per week. I make substantially more money than anyone I know who went to a regional (Yeah, hi, all you ex-FLXers, I guess I'm buying next time). I'm putting Multi TPIC time in the logbook at 80 hours per month. I never get screamed at by anyone because I'm not only the only pilot present, I'm the only employee present. I make the decisions, I fly the plane, I get the job done. I've yet to be questioned on any decision by a beancounter with his nose in a ledger sheet and his finger all the way up his rear. The guys I work for have all done what I'm doing. They back me up unless I do something stupid, which I do less often than those who know me might imagine. When I put the plane to sleep at 7am, I am done. No one calls, no one threatens, no one has a "differing interpretation" of what I should or shouldn't be doing. My checks arrive on time and with the correct number of zeroes at the end, every time. I've personally met the owner of my company. I even like and admire him (and everyone else I work with, to a man...how many regional guys can say that?)

Sure, I also have to deal with Scary Weather (!) and stuff that's broken. Sure, I have to be on my A-Game when things go south, there's a load of rubber dog-doo that needs to be yesterday, and there are tornadoes all across the route of flight. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Sure, one day (hopefully!) I'm going to wind up slinging gear for some crusty bastard who thinks I do everything wrong so that I can earn the Big Money. I like to think that at least when that happens, I'll have the "heavy is the head which wears the crown" experience to know that I ought to shut up and do things his way. Of course, your mileage may vary, but for mine, you can't beat flying 250 to the marker with a few "unofficial MELs" for getting your feet (and your pants) really wet.

Whatever. The upshot is: there are a lot of people for whom the QOL matrix lies in favor of doing freight. It's not like regional guys don't have their own crosses to bear. I'm sure that if you threw me in a 121 cockpit tomorrow, I'd be a hopeless disaster. That said, I don't think my shortcomings would have to do with flying an airplane. Which, for me, is what the whole thing was supposed to be about to start with.

[Clocks]

More money, TPIC, and anything else...flying night cargo single pilot just never really interested me. I'm not opposed to it, I don't dislike people that do it, but it just doesn't hold any intrigue for me. It would be like being a network administrator, or firefighter, or lawyer (all things I've never done that also don't interest me). The extremely tiny amount of time I have in the 121 world is exactly what I expected and what I was looking for.

I would do single pilot night cargo in an instant if I needed to for whatever reason. But 121 is why I'm in this profession.

[WalterSobchak]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

Someone should tell that to my W2. And my girlfriend. I sleep in my bed every night (OK, day). I work four (week) days (ok, ok...NIGHTS) per week. I make substantially more money than anyone I know who went to a regional (Yeah, hi, all you ex-FLXers, I guess I'm buying next time). I'm putting Multi TPIC time in the logbook at 80 hours per month. I never get screamed at by anyone because I'm not only the only pilot present, I'm the only employee present. I make the decisions, I fly the plane, I get the job done. I've yet to be questioned on any decision by a beancounter with his nose in a ledger sheet and his finger all the way up his rear. The guys I work for have all done what I'm doing. They back me up unless I do something stupid, which I do less often than those who know me might imagine. When I put the plane to sleep at 7am, I am done. No one calls, no one threatens, no one has a "differing interpretation" of what I should or shouldn't be doing. My checks arrive on time and with the correct number of zeroes at the end, every time. I've personally met the owner of my company. I even like and admire him (and everyone else I work with, to a man...how many regional guys can say that?)

Sure, I also have to deal with Scary Weather (!) and stuff that's broken. Sure, I have to be on my A-Game when things go south, there's a load of rubber dog-doo that needs to be yesterday, and there are tornadoes all across the route of flight. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Sure, one day (hopefully!) I'm going to wind up slinging gear for some crusty bastard who thinks I do everything wrong so that I can earn the Big Money. I like to think that at least when that happens, I'll have the "heavy is the head which wears the crown" experience to know that I ought to shut up and do things his way. Of course, your mileage may vary, but for mine, you can't beat flying 250 to the marker with a few "unofficial MELs" for getting your feet (and your pants) really wet.

Whatever. The upshot is: there are a lot of people for whom the QOL matrix lies in favor of doing freight. It's not like regional guys don't have their own crosses to bear. I'm sure that if you threw me in a 121 cockpit tomorrow, I'd be a hopeless disaster. That said, I don't think my shortcomings would have to do with flying an airplane. Which, for me, is what the whole thing was supposed to be about to start with.

How long have you been doing it? What part of the country(world) do you operate in?

I realized unofficial MEL's aren't going to keep you alive for ever. Flying GA aircraft way past their useful lives with minimal checks because of cargo only operations aren't a way to live for the next 25-30 years. Certainly valuable experience, but when that scary weather isn't scary any more and things only break last leg on friday it's time to move on. It's easier to cut corners and make that a life style, but it's not the way the job I want operates so why practice that way of thinking?

As far as making it to the next level some 135 guys make it. Most of those are from 2 pilot outfits. I hardly consider Allegiant a major with their payscale for the MD 80.

[E_Dawg]

I've done both 135 and 121. I believe 121 is by far and away better and can't believe the legal req's for 121 are less than that for 135. Nor can I understand why anyone would prefer 135 over 121 seeing that you can get to 121 sooner and have a MUCH, MUCH better qol and bennies. This is from a single guy who wouldn't trade my lifestyle for anything even if it meant more pic. In one year at a regional I've had more days off than a career at a 135 carrier and have traveled to places in the world I've only googled in the past.

Before I catch a bunch of crap from the pro 135 guys, here's my disclaimer: this is MY belief after having done BOTH. Subject to personal preference.

[Queboat]

I made 40k as a first year co pilot flying cargo in a Falcon20 & Lear24, plus about 11k in perdiem. went on vacation twice in that year, both for 2 weeks straight. NONE of my freinds that work for regionals can claim any of this. I'd work for a regional but it seems like the same type(entry level) of job but for less pay. I work 20 days a month and get airlined(ticket is paid for by the company) home, no ######### jumpseating. I'd like to work less but I am also looking to build my PIC jet time(upgraded in a year) so i dont really mind for now. Most guys I worked with went on to jetblue swa CAL omni, gemini, atlas, netjets & flexjet. I wouldnt mind working at a few of those places.

[ljg]

Originally Posted by WalterSobchak

How long have you been doing it? What part of the country(world) do you operate in?

I realized unofficial MEL's aren't going to keep you alive for ever. Flying GA aircraft way past their useful lives with minimal checks because of cargo only operations aren't a way to live for the next 25-30 years. Certainly valuable experience, but when that scary weather isn't scary any more and things only break last leg on friday it's time to move on. It's easier to cut corners and make that a life style, but it's not the way the job I want operates so why practice that way of thinking?

As far as making it to the next level some 135 guys make it. Most of those are from 2 pilot outfits. I hardly consider Allegiant a major with their payscale for the MD 80.

The "Scary WX/Stuff that's Broken" argument holds no water coming from 121. Every time I freight in the "scary Wx", there are quite alot of RJ's and a few mainlines are out there dogging it out with me to get in. Happens every time. For stuff that's broken, when it's broken at my company they fix it, no matter where or when it breaks. And, from working in a 121 SOC I was the guy that took a laundry list of MEL's every night on the last leg from tired, irritated CA's.

I hate the notion that freight pilots are "cowboys, especially when our 121 counterparts are flying in the exact same conditions/WX and get labeled "professionals" for doing so.