Quest Diagnostics

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

This is Wheelsup...as Mike referred to...he was talking to all the freight guys (and gals if there are any here). He has always had a habit of saying the freight thing is unsafe...then he'll say but, but, but I was almost hired by a freight company and turned them down, so I know what I'm talking about and I'm really a friend of freight dawgs... That sums it up pretty well...

Is this unsafe?

KTEB 111226Z 02005KT 2SM R06/2400VP6000FT TSRA BR OVC008 05/03 A2977 RMK AO2 TSB20 CIG 006V011 PRESFR OCNL LTG IN VC CCCGICCA P0013

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

This is Wheelsup...as Mike referred to...he was talking to all the freight guys (and gals if there are any here). He has always had a habit of saying the freight thing is unsafe...then he'll say but, but, but I was almost hired by a freight company and turned them down, so I know what I'm talking about and I'm really a friend of freight dawgs... That sums it up pretty well...

If it helps you sleep at night to think that, so be it. You've continually ignored my posts to the contrary so I guess I should expect as much.

Corporate culture is what makes a company unsafe, not the type of flying done. Mike is right, it is possible that guys that were p/o'd with the company wrote those things. There are two sides to every story. Who knows. The original poster wanted info and he sure got it . This is why I stopped posting jobs, because of the %$#@ storm that followed. Next time I'll keep my info to myself .

[ljg]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Is this unsafe?

KTEB 111226Z 02005KT 2SM R06/2400VP6000FT TSRA BR OVC008 05/03 A2977 RMK AO2 TSB20 CIG 006V011 PRESFR OCNL LTG IN VC CCCGICCA P0013

That looks familiar.

It was definitely safe.
Like Mike says there are two sides to every story.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

If it helps you sleep at night to think that, so be it. You've continually ignored my posts to the contrary so I guess I should expect as much.

Corporate culture is what makes a company unsafe.

To the contrary of what? You saying in numerous posts you think freight is unsafe? For the longest time, you and I (and a few other freight dawgs helping) went round and round on if freight is unsafe. We all have experience doing it, and you "turned down a job" doing it. What have I ignored?

Taking what somebody says on the internet about a company as fact? Look at all the Airnet stuff out there...I know there is a lot of negative stuff out there, but I know for a fact that during my time, none of that stuff went on with me or any of my buddies...and hasn't started since I left to my understanding, but it's on the internet, so it must be true.

Unless we hear from somebody that actually flies for the company, then I take anonymous posts off different web sites as what they are...anonymous bashings. The actual pilots I talked to in PNE a couple of years ago had nothing bad to say about the company, and one of them was a former Airnet guy. I'll take that until I hear differently. Who has foot in mouth disease???

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by ljg

That looks familiar.

It was definitely safe.
Like Mike says there are two sides to every story.

Yeah - I beat it out.

My SIC was sweatin' it a little, but it was a pretty weak system.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

To the contrary of what? You saying in numerous posts you think freight is unsafe...What have I ignored?

Actually if you look at pure statistics, Part 135 operators have a higher incidence of accidents vs. 121. Obviously we know why that is - they operate in a much more demanding and changing environment. Feel free to search for my username and the keyword "unsafe"...you won't find anything saying freight in general is unsafe. That being said, there are certain types of flying that are riskier than others, but risk ≠ unsafe until you cross a certain threshold and shouldn't be factored into saying freight is unsafe, when it is in fact even safer than driving on a day to day basis.

Here are some of my anti-freight posts:

"Freight pilots are respected in the industry and I know of a charter operator in florida that won't hire anyone without 135 freight experience...or go to a 135 outfit with turbines like ameriflight with the 1900's and merlins or Airnet with those lears..."

"If you have 135.243(c) mins, apply and go to a freight company that has twins such as Airnet, Flight Express, Central Air Southwest, etc. etc. "

"Get the multi in at a legal, safety minded, busy, career school. If you can't do that, go fly freight."

Yept, I sure think all freight is unsafe . After all I must be recommending people go there so they can get out of the gene pool.

In case you didn't catch it, the above sentence was sarcasm. We have our difference in opinion on career paths, let's drop this whole "wheelsup says freight is unsafe" crap. You and I both know a flight is only as safe as the pilot up front flying is. That being said, there are certainly corporate entities that have a culture of unsafeness (is that a word? I don't really know) attached to them which I think is what we all mean when we say a particular company is unsafe. Some are 121 carriers, unfortunately, as they carry innocent people in them not just pilots who call the shots.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Mike is right, it is possible that guys that were p/o'd with the company wrote those things. There are two sides to every story. Who knows.

And that is what I was referring to...there's no telling what the motivation of the anonymous poster was, or if he was anonymous on those boards...we don't know.

The original poster wanted info and he sure got it . This is why I stopped posting jobs, because of the %$#@ storm that followed. Next time I'll keep my info to myself .

Dude, don't take your ball and go home. My point was you have continually bagged on freight jobs, and don't always have all the info. I'll be the first one to say I don't have any info except what I was told by then-current employees almost 2 years ago. And, in person, if a job isn't all it's cracked up to be, usually a freight dawg will say something to another freight dawg, especially in person, in my experience.

[OldTownPilot]

http://amelia.db.erau.edu/reports/ntsb/aar/AAR80-05.pdf

One of the best "company pressures on pilots" accident reports out there. 1979 Downeast Air Twin otter at Rockland, ME, Scheduled 135 commuter airline. Granted its back in the late 70's so some of you will say "its not relevant anymore".

Some places are crappy places to work as far as pilot pressuring goes, some fly people some fly rubber-dog-crap. I don't work there, never met any of their pilots, so I'm not going to pass judgement on Quest. I just though that accident report fit in well with this discussion.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

My point was you have continually bagged on freight jobs,

You keep saying this but you NEVER post a link to a post of mine. I've never said flying freight, in general was unsafe. Sometimes pilots do unsafe things though, I've said that before, but that goes for any form of flying.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Yeah - I beat it out.

My SIC was sweatin' it a little, but it was a pretty weak system.

Wasn't too weak when we hit that stuf west of Boston this morning. We got turned inside out. Right on the arrival corridor of the GDM3 arrival. Luckily we gave the heads up and they sent the PAX guys that were behind us around it. The United jet just infront of us got a lightning strike in the same cell but failed to speak up until we got crap beat out of us.
Oh well.
TGIF.

[mikecweb]

Hey stone let him be a double talker.
We're the guys putting our foots in our mouths though.

[Stone Cold]

Wheels, do you want me to quote this thread? I think you can look at this one alone and see why we get this feeling from you...how about your very first post in this thread bagging on a freight job, with unsubstantiated info from FI, a buddy who left, but you never asked him why, and an anonymous post from another board..

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Hey stone let him be a double talker.
We're the guys putting our foots in our mouths though.

Yes, I'm done, again. Wheels, I know (well, I hope anyways) you have the right intentions, but they really are received the wrong way, especially when it comes to these freight threads.

Never mind...I see you've already referred to it...

[mikecweb]

Footage into mouthage;

It's not that it doesn't count, but they are a rarity. Pretty much anyone can work their way into a job at airnet, amf, or any regional. To work your way into a job posted above is like me comparing life at a major. You are pointing to the creame of the crop and we are working just an average job.

[wheelsup]

So you're saying I continually bash on freight jobs by pointing out the one and only thread I have ever used the words "freight" and "unsafe" in the same post? Go ahead, search, it's true.

As for anonymous info from another board, I DIDN'T EVEN POST THAT.

Even if I did bash Quest, which I did not, one post wouldn't construe "continually bashing" or at least not in the real world. Seriously man what is your beef, spill it.

[mikecweb]

Ahhh one more

Originally Posted by wheelsup

Texaspilot, look up Quest Diagnostics. If you need a fax # let me know. ~$60k to start doing what you're doing now (M-F night freight). You'd start most likely in their pistons, then fly the TBM/PC12. They've got a few king airs and a hawker as well. Last I heard they were moving to the VLJ scene. They LOVE airnet guys. Although you'd have to move to Reading, PA or outside Atlanta it would probably be the last move you would make. They'll be around for a while. I never could get in, I tried like heck but no 135 time killed the shot I had.

You've come so far and sacrificed so much, why give it up? That would be a shame. Don't let other peoples' problems drag you down, man!

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Ahhh one more

Texaspilot, look up Quest Diagnostics. If you need a fax # let me know. ~$60k to start doing what you're doing now (M-F night freight). You'd start most likely in their pistons, then fly the TBM/PC12. They've got a few king airs and a hawker as well. Last I heard they were moving to the VLJ scene. They LOVE airnet guys. Although you'd have to move to Reading, PA or outside Atlanta it would probably be the last move you would make. They'll be around for a while. I never could get in, I tried like heck but no 135 time killed the shot I had.

You've come so far and sacrificed so much, why give it up? That would be a shame. Don't let other peoples' problems drag you down, man!

Riiiiiiight because I totally put down freight...um how????? Since you guys are attacking me I might as well fight back...mike what was your score on the SAT's reading comprehension? I was helping a guy out WHO WAS LOOKING FOR A JOB.

Don't worry, I will NOT make that mistake ever again.

I actually said it was the LAST MOVE HE'D EVER MAKE, in other words calling it a career job...aka a GOOD JOB. C'mon man, seriously, keep up.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Footage into mouthage;

It's not that it doesn't count, but they are a rarity. Pretty much anyone can work their way into a job at airnet, amf, or any regional. To work your way into a job posted above is like me comparing life at a major. You are pointing to the creame of the crop and we are working just an average job.

Please, enlighten me, in the context of the post, how exactly did I bash freight? Anyone?

[mikecweb]

Pointing out that you were telling us that we supposedly put our foots in our mouths when you highly recommend someone go there and then later bash it in the current thread. Maybe you should get your facts straight or just limit your posting to companies and flying that you know personally.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Pointing out that you were telling us that we supposedly put our foots in our mouths when you highly recommend someone go there and then later bash it in the current thread. Maybe you should get your facts straight or just limit your posting to companies and flying that you know personally.

Things change man, that was what, 2 years ago? A lot could have happened between the time I spent in RDG and the past little while. They weren't even thinking about Eclipses 2 years ago, and that was mentioned in the guys rant that another user posted.

That would be like saying 30 years ago someone recommended Eastern and someone pointing out 30 years later how stupid that was. You can only go on what the present situation is.

deleted...not even worth my time...

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by wheelsup

So you're saying I continually bash on freight jobs by pointing out the one and only thread I have ever used the words "freight" and "unsafe" in the same post? Go ahead, search, it's true.

Originally Posted by wheelsup March 17, 2006

They are a DA-20 (Falcon 20) and DC-9 Cargo and pax charter op. The newhires go into the DA-20. You are on a 20 MINUTE callout. Yes, you read that correctly. If you don't get to the airport within 20 minutes you DON'T GET PAID for that trip (even if you end up flying).

Originally Posted by wheelsup March 17, 2006

They do a lot of charter for the US auto industry (which is why they are based in detriot). He told me lots of stories about "bribes" and such down in mexico. Some of the stories were scary (like deathly scary from the places he was at). I guess you get used to it though. Imagine getting a call at 3AM, waking up, getting a shower, putting on clothes, shaving, brushing teeth, etc. and out the door in 15 minutes for the 5 minute drive to the airport. If you can do that, you could work there. I know I couldn't...

Originally Posted by wheelsup April 3 2006

He's a good guy too - although his stories about freight flying definately scare me...

Originally Posted by wheelsup April 3 2006

He went to great lengths to keep the tail numbers, his face, etc. off those videos for a reason LOL!

Of course, we have the infamous "...just to clarify, what I said was I wouldn't take less than $60k/yr to fly in an aircraft without a/c, etc." I couldn't find the original, but this is you talking about your quote. I think this is the one that rubbed a LOT of us wrong...

Originally Posted by wheelsup July 17, 2006

just because I wouldn't want to do your job, you don't have to get quippy!

And there's more out there...that was just a quick looksee.

As for anonymous info from another board, I DIDN'T EVEN POST THAT.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't saying you posted it, but that's where you came in with the foot in mouth comment. So, you were trying to use it to get your point across.

Even if I did bash Quest, which I did not, one post wouldn't construe "continually bashing" or at least not in the real world. Seriously man what is your beef, spill it.

I have no beef...I am just pointing out that you have had your beef with freight...

And, to be fair, I've had many bashes on regionals...anyways, enough of the back and forth...I've gotta run.

[wheelsup]

The only company I mentioned was USA Jet, and I stand by my statements because they came from a close personal friend who was employed there in 2005. That being said, like Mikecweb said, people do like to embellish, and it is quite probable my buddy did looking back now.

Saying I wouldn't fly a 210 around for <$60k/year rubbed you guys the wrong way? If more people thought like me maybe you'd be getting $60k/year for flying a 210 around! If this rubbed you I apologize.

[Jimmy_Norton]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Is this unsafe?

KTEB 111226Z 02005KT 2SM R06/2400VP6000FT TSRA BR OVC008 05/03 A2977 RMK AO2 TSB20 CIG 006V011 PRESFR OCNL LTG IN VC CCCGICCA P0013

Yes

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Norton

Yes

Why because it's not VFR?

[Jimmy_Norton]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Why because it's not VFR?

LOL.......yeah you got it.

I bet you are the same guy that goes thru the 2 mile gap between storms vs. flying an extra 5 min and going around the end of the line.

[ctab5060X]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Norton

Yes

How is this unsafe??

If I had a dollar for every time I landed or departed with TSRA in the METAR, I could easily retire...

Sounds like just another day at the office. Especially during the summer where I am based.

Just because it isn't 10 miles and clear doesn't mean that it isn't safe...