Floaters

[Queboat]

Originally Posted by Citationkid

Is getting thoes boxes there that much quicker really worth risking your life?

all freight dogs should ask themselves this questions.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Oh no. If you aren't currently living in Columbus you'll definetly need a crash pad. You won't fly all 8 days. You can probably chance it for a few weeks but eventually you'll need to spend a few nights in Columbus.

Interesting. I thought the idea of "floating" was that you show up at your base and go somewhere away from the base for 8 days. Was that just a marketing tactic used by recruiting?

As for training...don't worry, I'm studying pretty hard for it. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but at the same time, if I get assigned a 5 day run in Omaha...passing training isn't really going to matter. I think that's something the company could do better with new hires.

-mini

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Citationkid

So flying through tstroms is all part of the job? Is getting thoes boxes there that much quicker really worth risking your life?

Don't go there.
Really. Don't.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by minitour

Interesting. I thought the idea of "floating" was that you show up at your base and go somewhere away from the base for 8 days. Was that just a marketing tactic used by recruiting?

As for training...don't worry, I'm studying pretty hard for it. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but at the same time, if I get assigned a 5 day run in Omaha...passing training isn't really going to matter. I think that's something the company could do better with new hires.

-mini

It's been a long day so this may be a little rough but deal... Seriously what happens if you have to cover a run out of LCK? Where do you think you'll stay? Second the amount of choices you'll have if you pass training is ten times the amount most of us had. Trying waiting for 3 months and then getting assigned someplace you dread. What do you want them to do? It's an outstation based airline. And things could be alot worse then getting assigned a 5 day run out of training. Seriously your b*itching is getting tiring and you haven't even touched an airplane yet.

[Citationkid]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Don't go there.
Really. Don't.

Ha! Yes sir, I am so very, very sorry. The question was not directed at you anyway, unless you consider flying through thunderstorms all a part of the job. Be it hauling boxes, executives or the general public.

I have a lot of respect for freight pilots. You guys have a very tough job made worse by long/bad hours for little money in relatively poorly equipped airplanes. What I do not respect is the attitude I see from a few pilots (and not only freight pilots!) that they have to get the job done no mater what. Hopefully you agree with me on that.

Alex.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by Citationkid

Ha! Yes sir, I am so very, very sorry. The question was not directed at you anyway, unless you consider flying through thunderstorms all a part of the job. Be it hauling boxes, executives or the general public.

I have a lot of respect for freight pilots. You guys have a very tough job made worse by long/bad hours for little money in relatively poorly equipped airplanes. What I do not respect is the attitude I see from a few pilots (and not only freight pilots!) that they have to get the job done no mater what. Hopefully you agree with me on that.

Alex.

I do consider it part of my job to fly through thunderstorms.
Do you have any idea how much money I make, how poorly equipped my plane is and how bad my hours are?
A plane doesn't have to have all glass to be well equipped. Sadly with the way your young career is shaping up you'll probably never fly a /W jet.
Oh wells. Don't pass judgement on things you haven't experienced and on people you don't know.
Just slow up on the sterotypes. You'd be surprised how nice freight flying is compared to regionals.

[Citationkid]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I do consider it part of my job to fly through thunderstorms.

That sucks. Many great pilots have been lost to mother nature, and many more will. I really do hope you are not one of them. I have known you for a long time, ever since your Jr year at Riddle, you may not respect me, but I do respect you.

Do you have any idea how much money I make, how poorly equipped my plane is and how bad my hours are?

You are taking things very personal tonight. I did not direct any of that to you. Is it not a well known fact that most freight pilots fly odd hours, in what even they say are megarly equipped planes? Maybe it is just a sterotype that I have taken too literally. But according to APC, you make around 30K a year, probally a little more. To me, that is not a lot for flying a jet.

A plane doesn't have to have all glass to be well equipped. Sadly with the way your young career is shaping up you'll probably never fly a /W jet.

In that case, what would a poorly equipped Learjet have in it? In my opinion, any aircraft that is reguarly flown hard IFR should be /G to be considered well equipped. I personally do not think it is sad that I will never fly a /W jet. Honestly I'd be happy never flying a jet.

Don't pass judgement on things you haven't experienced and on people you don't know.

I never once in this thread passed any judgement on any person or anything I have not experienced. I have quite a bit of weather flying, although I have never flown directly through a thunderstorm. I spend most of my time in the summer avoiding them!

Just slow up on the sterotypes. You'd be surprised how nice freight flying is compared to regionals.

I never compared it to the regionals. I am not a fan of flying for the regionals either.

Good night,

Alex.

[mikecweb]

Sorry Alex.
I don't mean to jump on you. It's just frustrating when people label us. And whether you ment to or not I took it that way. I won't slap my paycheck up her but it isn't 30k a year. I think if you had some more time in hard IFR with planes that don't have moving maps you'd see that those really aren't needed. The reason I brought up regionals is I want to point out that there are MANY other flying oppurtunities out there besides part 121 regional flying, as you know very well.

Good night,
Mike

[ljg]

Originally Posted by minitour

Interesting. I thought the idea of "floating" was that you show up at your base and go somewhere away from the base for 8 days. Was that just a marketing tactic used by recruiting?

As for training...don't worry, I'm studying pretty hard for it. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but at the same time, if I get assigned a 5 day run in Omaha...passing training isn't really going to matter. I think that's something the company could do better with new hires.

-mini

Can you clarify, 'cause I'm a little 'slow? Are you saying outright that once you complete IPTP (and then possibly SIC), that you're going to refuse a run assignment if you don't like it? Are you SERIOUS? You're seriously saying that publicly? Dude...really?

Tell me what you were really saying, because that kind of attitude is crappy. A lot of people ahead of you made huge sacrifices to fly for Airnet because they really wanted to be here. I hope you do, but my interpretation from reading your posts is that you're here because you're here. Question #1 during initial 2-minute phone interview: "Are you willing to relocate?" Please don't bring that kind of mentality out on the line. You will be swallowed up. Hope I'm wrong about what you mean.

Secondly, Washka is not a used car salesman. His department has to find qualified people to fill classes, but ask the man a direct question and you'll get a direct answer. If you had any unanswered questions prior to coming into training, that's your fault mini. There's lots of guys on JC who would help you out too. Don't be ignorant and then blame the company.

...Back to studying'

[ljg]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Damn good advice, there.

To add to that - if that scenario happens to you, you can always change it. Plenty of runs open these days.

Speaking of open runs - I notice a lot of Priority Air guys covering runs for us. Anyone know anything about that company?

Priority guys told me they have a 45 minute timeframe from customer callup to aircraft airborne. They are based just outside of Akron, OH. You obviously know they have Caravans and 310's, I don't know if they have anything else. The 142 priority guy said he made decent money, flew to many different places, and had some sort of training agreement. He had 1500 hours of van time and not much multi. I also was under the impression that they fly alot more than we do (91 legs out of and back to OH frequently). Does anybody else have any info on Priority?

[ackeight]

I think they have a couple conquests too. I wish we had those or something similar here too.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by ljg

Priority guys told me they have a 45 minute timeframe from customer callup to aircraft airborne. They are based just outside of Akron, OH. You obviously know they have Caravans and 310's, I don't know if they have anything else. The 142 priority guy said he made decent money, flew to many different places, and had some sort of training agreement. He had 1500 hours of van time and not much multi. I also was under the impression that they fly alot more than we do (91 legs out of and back to OH frequently). Does anybody else have any info on Priority?

I believe EatSleepFly flew for them....

[Citationkid]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Sorry Alex.
I don't mean to jump on you. It's just frustrating when people label us. And whether you ment to or not I took it that way. I won't slap my paycheck up her but it isn't 30k a year. I think if you had some more time in hard IFR with planes that don't have moving maps you'd see that those really aren't needed. The reason I brought up regionals is I want to point out that there are MANY other flying oppurtunities out there besides part 121 regional flying, as you know very well.

Good night,
Mike

Thanks man, and, for the record, I have a little bit of actual time in /A and /U airplanes. You just never see the photos of them, because I am too busy flying the plane to be taking photos! And I certainly agree with you on regional flying. I would probally get out of aviation before I flew a 40+ seat jet for 30k a year!

Alex.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by ljg

Hope I'm wrong about what you mean.

Yeah, you both (mikecweb) are...but my "bitching is tiring", so I'm done with it. Have at it...I'm sure someone from Airnet can make even that last sentence into something other than what it is. Remember guys, just read the text...don't interpret it. When I want you to think I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.

What AM I saying? I think the company could do a better job of letting you know what will most likely be available once you complete training. Am I willing to relocate? Yes. That's a simple question though and it warrants a simple response. It's not just me that feels this way. Ask most of the people in the new classes and you'll get the same responses...I'm just not afraid to say how I feel.

Is that clear enough without "bitching"?

-mini

[Ian J]

Hey, everyone would LOVE to know what their options are! No harm in that.

But say it's you in the ACP's office figuring this stuff out and pilot trainee mintour walks and and wants to know what his options are.

Well, who is going to quit and leave their runs by the time you are done with training?

What runs are going to open and close by the time you are done with training?

With the unknown resignations and the unknown closures/ openings, how are the pilots on the seniority list going to bid when these new bases open, or theirs closes?

Could they do better? Probably. But the system is very fluid and one little pebble disturbs the whole pond.

Seriously - how would you change the system to make it better?

I don't think you're bitching - I think that one, you are simply expressing your desire to know where you're going. Understandable - as long as you realize that it's probably not going to happen. And two, I think you simply don't understand the system. No worries there - I'm still figuring it out myself.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by minitour

Yeah, you both (mikecweb) are...but my "bitching is tiring", so I'm done with it. Have at it...I'm sure someone from Airnet can make even that last sentence into something other than what it is. Remember guys, just read the text...don't interpret it. When I want you to think I'm trying to say something, I'll say it.

What AM I saying? I think the company could do a better job of letting you know what will most likely be available once you complete training. Am I willing to relocate? Yes. That's a simple question though and it warrants a simple response. It's not just me that feels this way. Ask most of the people in the new classes and you'll get the same responses...I'm just not afraid to say how I feel.

Is that clear enough without "bitching"?

-mini

I answered that question. How could they do a better job? Do you want to be assigned a base prior to passing training? Would that be the solution? Do you want a list of bases currently open to give you an idea? What I told you was you are very lucky to even have a choice. There are something like 15 runs open right now. Back when almost everyone at Airnet on this board got hired we didn't have choices. We had to wait until our senority was high enough to go where we wanted to go.
Seriously, you've have had three people read your posts and apparently completely missed the point. I wanna help you out man I really do but you gotta give me something back rather then just saying I wrongly interpret what you say. I take about 5 hours of my free time everyday helping Airnet pilots. 95% of that you'll never see as a pilot here but trust me I'm here to help.

[Ian J]

And mini - I think ljg was asking about this specific part:

Originally Posted by minitour

As for training...don't worry, I'm studying pretty hard for it. I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but at the same time, if I get assigned a 5 day run in Omaha...passing training isn't really going to matter. I think that's something the company could do better with new hires.

-mini

What does that mean?

[minitour]

Originally Posted by Ian J

Seriously - how would you change the system to make it better?

If I had the answer to that, I'd never have to fly again .

Not sure how to do it...just opining that it can be done better.

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Seriously, you've have had three people read your posts and apparently completely missed the point. I wanna help you out man I really do but you gotta give me something back rather then just saying I wrongly interpret what you say. I take about 5 hours of my free time everyday helping Airnet pilots. 95% of that you'll never see as a pilot here but trust me I'm here to help.

That's great...I'm glad that you're trying to help. The world needs more of that.

What would you like back? You misinterpret my posts, make them into what you want them to be, attack me...then expect me to bow down?

What would you like back from me?

-mini

[mikecweb]

In other words if someone misinterprets your post make a correction and try to word it differently.
I'm really not trying to make them into what I want them to say. I'm not that bored. I would like to help you out.
Ian pretty much summed it up. There really isn't a better way of doing things. Runs and bases change here alot. It's just the nature of the company. Can you think of another place that has this many bases?
Saying that things could be better but you don't have any solution is pretty much a waste of time isn't? How do you know it could be better?

[minitour]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

In other words if someone misinterprets your post make a correction and try to word it differently.

I've already been down that road. You responded with...

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I'm not really up for word games.

Originally Posted by mikecweb

How do you know it could be better?

I had a nice long reply typed up for this, but at the risk of it sounding like "bitching", and I know you hate that, I'll just say this...

It is just my opinion that the people in charge could at least let us know what is going on. I don't think we needed to be promised bases at the interview (though at least 3 of us were) to get us here. If we didn't want to be here, we wouldn't have applied. Well, again, I hate speaking for other people so I'll only say that I wouldn't have applied if I didn't want to be here. I've got other options...some good, some not so good, some flying, some not flying.

My opinion is simply that keeping us in the dark and telling us "don't worry about it", isn't a solution. Some of us have leases to sign...or not. Houses to sell...or not. Wives to find new jobs...or not.

It's just a little frustrating. That doesn't mean I think the company is in any way "evil" or any variation of it. Just that I think there's a better way to do it. If they'd like to hire me in to re-design the structure, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it. But for now, my job is to pass training...and that's all I'm going to work on.

"Clear as mud?" - The DPE that did my CFI ride.

-mini

[averyrm]

The only thing you can plan for is the worst. What's the worst base you can go to? plan to live there.

With the way airnet's bidding system and run structure works, I could tell you "You'll most likely go to ____" but there's a 50% chance I'll be wrong. Then you'll be bitching about "Oh, they told me I'll go here but now I have to go there..."

Make it through training (including transition) first, then worry about it. - We tell you that because that's the truth.

[averyrm]

PS I upgraded to PIC two weeks before I got married. Did I want to know where I was living after that, yeah! Did I understand that due to the nature of the job there was no possible way to know? Yeah!

It's only as frustrating as you make it.

[FlySmiley]

Originally Posted by minitour

All it takes is a few engine failures in singles,

-mini

Good thing it is possibly the most reliable engine ever built.

Originally Posted by minitour

a complete vacuum pump failure,

-mini

Good thing it doesn't use a traditional vacuum pump.

Originally Posted by minitour

alternator over voltage and an alternator failure,

-mini

Good thing the alternator is only a standby source of power.

Originally Posted by minitour

AI failure...

-mini

Good thing there are two of them, with independent power sources.

Originally Posted by minitour

I've got my reasons to be suspicious of singles.

-mini

Good thing this is not the shady 172-P you rent from your local FBO. This is a well designed aircraft with fantastic maintenance to boot.

Originally Posted by minitour

Add to it a plane that has a history of being a falling snow-cone in ice...I think my concerns are well warranted.

-mini

Good thing you don't have to be a falling snow cone (read: Pilot error) Fly smart!


Listen to these guys... they know what they are talking about. FWIW, I was one of the guys sitting around for a LONG time waiting for a run just to get awarded one of the two bases that I did not want to go to. A word of advice and not to sound harsh, but: It is what it is.. deal with it.

[minitour]

Originally Posted by FlySmiley

Good thing it is possibly the most reliable engine ever built.

Then I must be the unluckiest person on Earth to have had one fail...

Good thing I was on the ground.

-mini

[ackeight]

Originally Posted by minitour

Then I must be the unluckiest person on Earth to have had one fail...

Good thing I was on the ground.

-mini

Everything will fail eventually if it's man made. Even in the worse case scenario in the caravan you have a good chance of making it out as you follow your training. It's a fairly reduntant aircraft with the exception of 1 engine.