Enlighten Me Please

[cignaguy]

Hey Freight Dawgs-

The more I read the postings of the Freight Dawgs out there, the more appealing this route of employment becomes to me. That being said, I was wondering if some of you could provide some helpful information as far as qualifications, etc. For instance, the following questions come to mind about the freight gig:

Can you provide a list of companies I should consider researching when looking at freight for employment?

Did most of you instruct prior to flying freight?

Do most of the employers offer benefits in addition to pay? For example, health insurance?

What can I do to prepare for a freight job? At what point can I begin applying to freight jobs? 1,000 hours minimum?

I'll tell you a bit about myself so you can make some recommendations about how I should prepare for a freight job. I only have about 70 TT right now. I am in the "Learning Approaches" phase of my instrument training in a 141 environment, so I hope to get my IR by mid-December. After that, I plan on finding someone to split time with (in the Atlanta area) to fly IFR cross-countries and accumulating the hours to be eligible for the Commercial rating. All of this will happen very quickly, as I am doing this full-time, at least 5 days per week. I am a 29 year old career changer, with B.S. degree in Finance. At what point should I begin applying?

The idea of instructing does not really appeal to me, although I know I would probably benefit greatly from doing it. I think it is just the thought of trying to teach someone to fly that makes me a bit uneasy, and perhaps that is a function of me still doing my own training and not having the confidence I need to instruct. So maybe I will be more comfortable with it in another 100-150 hours or so? Did you all have the same types of feelings about instructing? Are there other routes to gain the experiences? I would be perfectly content with making about $18-20K/year to begin with.

Thanks a ton for any and all information you can provide. I have done a ton of searches on this information, and have read some great information, but I might just not be searching for the correct keywords to get some of the information. If you just want to give me a link to another posting, that would be much appreciated as well!

Matt

[mtsu_av8er]

[quote=cignaguy;728370]Hey Freight Dawgs-

Excellent questions, Cigna!

Can you provide a list of companies I should consider researching when looking at freight for employment?

Three Companies that I would definitely consider (there's no way I can name every part 135 outfit, so I won't even try): Flight Express, Airnet, and Ameriflight.

I'm a bit biased toward Flight Express for a number of reasons. First off, this is where I worked. Our pay surpassed all of the others. We had pretty cheap benefits, great bases, and awesome people. Everybody on the line hauled freight (Well, not Kashi Boy . . . ) We hired no "training captains", SIC's, clerks, jerks, or candlestick makers. We did hire VFR-only guys from time to time when pilots started becoming scarce, but that's as low as it got.

The downside to FLX is that you're never going to get any turbine time. We just didn't have any, and the company had no desire to get them. So, if that's what you're looking for, you're not going to find it there.

Airnet is an awesome company. The advantage is that they have jets! So, if you want to get some jet time on the resume, AND fly freight . . . well, you can eventually find a way to do it there! I won't speak about the negatives there because, well - I've never worked there a day in my life! However, I've known lots of people there and I'll simply say that I considered going there instead of FLX. Good folks up there.


Ameriflight is a HUGE company with a predominantly West-Coast presence. The have lots and lots of turbine aircraft, and a variety of bases. There's a long-time member here on the board that's flown the line there, in a variety of aircraft, for some years now. I'll let him speak on them . . . I'm just too far detached from the West Coast to even begin.

Did most of you instruct prior to flying freight?

Sure did. For a couple of years, as a matter of fact.

Do most of the employers offer benefits in addition to pay? For example, health insurance?

Any reputable employer will offer benefits, to include insurance.

What can I do to prepare for a freight job?

Get used to flying alone, at night, in real instrument conditions. Get proficient in the soup. I mean really proficient. Be comfortable flying approaches to minimums. ILS, VOR, and NDB approaches.

At what point can I begin applying to freight jobs? 1,000 hours minimum?

As a general rule, 1200 hours total time, 100 night, 500 cross country.

You CAN be hired at FLX as a VFR-only guy if you're close . . . like 750'ish or so. They only hire those when they're really hurting, though.

The idea of instructing does not really appeal to me, although I know I would probably benefit greatly from doing it. I think it is just the thought of trying to teach someone to fly that makes me a bit uneasy, and perhaps that is a function of me still doing my own training and not having the confidence I need to instruct. So maybe I will be more comfortable with it in another 100-150 hours or so?

After you're trained as a flight instructor, you'll still feel weird about it. Then you'll start doing it, having a ball, and life will be good!



Let me know if I can help you at all!

[Ian J]

Lloyd pretty much nailed it.

I'll add the following:

- Flight Express starts you in a 210 (single engine). It takes some time to move to a multi (Lloyd can tell you better how long that takes).

- Airnet hires SICs into the props. However, you'll need to meet 135 mins to be a PIC. I started a thread about low-time SICs in this forum, but in short, I personally don't recommend SICing with anything less than 1000 hours.

To prepare, do exactly what Lloyd said. To add, concentrate on getting point to point cross country time (you'll need 500 hours), night time (need 100 hours) and instrument time (need 75 hours, 50 in actual).

Good luck with your training!

[mikecweb]

I'll mop up a little.
I'm a Lear SIC at Airnet.
Airnet technically has no minimums right now. As with everyone in this industry, we are very desperate for pilots. They are bringing guys to class with 300-500 hours believe it or not. What this gives you is a ticket to the right seat of a baron until you have 1200 hours. As Ian said not exactly the most exciting way to spend 7-8 months of your life.
Airnet is also in a state of flux right now. We are losing business because still a majority of our cargo is bank checks. Checks are now being processed electronically and more so each day. Something is going to have to give here in the next couple of years and no one is 100% sure what is going to take place. I'll tell you this, alot of guys here think the sky is falling and are running like we'll be out of business tomorrow. I personally don't believe this to be the case. We own too many airplanes and have too good of a route structure to just disappear tomorrow. Airnet will not look the same in two years I can assure you that.

This is what I'd do. Go through your training at whatever pace you see fit. Buy as little amount flight time as you can and then start flight instructing. When I was at your position in training I never fathomed I would be teaching people to fly. I personally didn't have a choice. No one was hiring and it was the only option to build time. I ended up loving it. Made friends and memories that I'll keep with me forever. I also learned A TON about flying. Each and every day I would learn something new.
You need a bag of tricks in this flying biz. Guys going to the airlines with 2-300 hours have a very small bag with very little substance in there. You flight instructor for a 1,000 hours and you have a pretty big bag to bring to the table. Something you'll need when you're by yourself in the soup at night in icing chasing a deadline. After flight instructing for a year or two take a look at the industry and see where you will fit best. Don't chase senority from the begining. If you do you'll never stop and you'll look back at your career and your life and think, where the heck did everything go and how did I end up here.
Seriously enjoy the ride.

[jtrain609]

I used to be an Ameriflight training captain, so I'll tell you a little bit about it.

Ameriflight hires sub 1200 hour pilots to teach line pilots how to fly their Chieftain. You go through all the part 135 training, have to pass a part 135 IFR PIC checkride and then your part 135 training captain ride. I got hired at 650 hours and left after about 9 months with 800 hours. I didn't fly much, but when I was there we were not hiring much so that kinda falls in line.

If you have maybe 900 hours or so, your CFI/II/MEI and you want to live in the Los Angeles area, then I'd highly recommend the route. Personally? I hated LA, loved the flying, but was ready to move outta LA and get on with flying more.

As far as flying for Ameriflight as a line pilot, KLB should chime in here. He was in the class after me, used to be a Chieftain driver and now he's a Beech 99 driver. He'll be in the EMB-120 and the Metroliner soon. If you want quick turbine time, can handle the lifestyle and dig the bases at Ameriflight (and are probably willing to move from base to base), it can be a good place.

[Queboat]

I agre with all of the above. Southern Sea and Air is a vfr cargo company that will hire you at 500 based out of southern louisiana. Never worked there but my co-pilot on this rotation did. He got hired with 500 on the dot, they run checks in 206s & 210s. A few others that aren't talked about as much becaus ethey are smaller. South Aero & Aero Charter in ABQ. ACT in denver, they fly MU-2s. Martinair in Texas, they fly Caravans.

Some personel advice. do not repeat that you will be happy with such low pay, you'll lose respect from many, if not all pilots. infact you should be upset with pay that low.

[cignaguy]

Thanks for all of the responses! This is very helpful information and something I can use as a guide if I want to fly freight in the future.

How do you get 500 hours X-country? I think I have maybe 15 hours right now?? Hehe. I will build about 100 hours of it when I am timebuilding for my commercial. Would I build the rest by instructing? Just seems that X-country flying is such a small portion of the PPL and IR, relatively speaking.

I just hope by the time I build the hours that everyone is still needing pilots and I don't miss the boat. I am hoping to knock out the IR by mid-December, and then I assume the timebuilding for the Commercial will go by very quickly.

MTSU: are you from the Nashville area? I went to college in Chattanooga and lived/worked in Nashville for 1.5 years afterwards, probably my favorite place I have ever lived!

Thanks again, everyone!

[OldTownPilot]

The 500 x/c only has to be "point to point" i.e. flying to another airport. NOT 50 nm that is used during training to get your license.

[gomntwins]

There are a ton of other smaller freight operators out there worth looking into. If you're not interested in getting into a turbine you get go straight into a multi at places like Airmax airlines. I think their starting pay is around 45k. They fly 310's. Aerocharter.... their pay moved somewhere into the 40's... they fly 310's and 402's I believe. I personally wouldn't take a job in a single flying freight unless you've got a good reason to-- probably the best reason would be domicile location. That's just my opinion/personal preference though.

If you want to start in a multi piston and make it into a turbine there are some other smaller, good options, that are not ameriflight (I personally am not a fan of their pay scales). Some good company's to look at would be Suburban air freight out of Omaha. I know their pay is good. Their first year 1900 pilots are making mid 50's. I believe they start you in the caravan, then 99, then 1900. Alpine air is another option... if you don't mind going anywhere they've got some routes that no pilots really want to fly and they pay very good for those. They fly 99's and 1900's mostly. Encore air cargo is another good option. Relatively small company with 20 planes/30 pilots. Half 402's and half metroliners. Good pay, good management, and a good job. starting pay is 7-8k more than ameriflight.

There are a ton of other places out there.... some with a good reputation, some not. Chances are, if you find a place you're interested in, somebody on this website will know at least something about it. Just gotta do some research.

It seems to me the more well known the place, the worse the pay. Also, if you can't upgade to turbines at the company your initial pay will be much better (it's hard to get people interested in solely piston time).

[pressclick]

Originally Posted by gomntwins

There are a ton of other places out there....

What's the best way to find out about these places? The big names get tossed around on here all the time, but finding contacts/research information for the smaller companies isn't as easy.

[gomntwins]

Originally Posted by pressclick

What's the best way to find out about these places? The big names get tossed around on here all the time, but finding contacts/research information for the smaller companies isn't as easy.

Well... there are a few ways. The largest database is provided by the faa... here's the link:

http://av-info.faa.gov/OpCert.asp

Search by type of flying (135), and probably the location you're interested in. The bad thing is, there are a ton of 135 operators that have 1-2 airplanes on their certificates that may, or may not be, what you're interested in. Also, 135 is not solely freight-- so you'll end up having to weed through the charter stuff, and a lot of websites, to come up with what you want. This is a great option if you want a freight job/charter job in a certain location.

Other options: Pick somebody's brain on here for different freight operator's they're familiar with. Ask me a question on the east coast and I'm not gonna have a clue. You want to know about the midwest, and I may be able to help (where I'm currently flying), or Arizona... where I was prior to SD.

Another option: Take a look at hiring websites, ex. climbto350.com. You'll find a fair number of freight operators on there that are hiring. A fair number of small as well as large operators are posting on there (and many other websites) looking for pilots.

Those are a few options, I'm sure there are a ton of different ways to find what you want. Good luck!

[ctab5060X]

Martinaire out of Addison, TX has been mentioned...mostly Caravans, so you will get turbine time right off the bat. Hearing they might be starting and SIC program to help get pilots in under the 1200TT min.

Another small operator to mention is Central Air Southwest out of Kansas City. Nothing really special, but every pilot there flies the Aero Commander, so you would be in a twin from day one. No turbines to upgrade to though, although this might be changing.

Originally Posted by pressclick

What's the best way to find out about these places? The big names get tossed around on here all the time, but finding contacts/research information for the smaller companies isn't as easy.

One of the best way to find out about the smaller companies is to simply ask here. While some of us might not work at these smaller carriers, it is possible we still might know some useful information about the company.

[pilot4500]

Another company that is worth mentioning is Ram Air Freight. They are based out of Raleigh, NC and have several bases throughout the southeastern US. Every pilot starts out in the Piper Lance, and moves up to one of the twins usually withing 6 months. You can upgrade sooner if you are willing to move anywhere. We fly Piper Lances, Cessna 402's, Piper Senecas, and Beechcraft Barons.

The pay isn't the best, but it is a good way to get multi time and then move onto bigger and better things.

[EatSleepFly]

Priority Air Charter (callsign "Priority Air") and Castle Aviation ("Castle"), both in NE Ohio, are a couple of smaller ones that are pretty good as well. I flew for Priority for a short time, but always heard good things about Castle. Both fly mainly Caravans, although Priority has a PC-12 and a C-310 as well. They sold the F406. Castle has a couple other things too, I believe, and also has a couple of scheduled runs, unlike Priority. They also do some pax charter in some kind of Citation, last I heard.

Priority is strictly on demand auto parts type stuff. On call all the time, general crappy lifestyle. Home a lot, but you just never know when the pager is going to start beeping. If you can't deal with living in the middle of basically nowhere, tied to a pager 24/6, then don't bother applying. It's hard work. Very few overnights. The owners are decent, maintenance is good, the airplanes are very well-equipped, and you'll probably fly a lot. Basic 135 IFR PIC requirements are the mins. Don't expect much, if any, multi time. Pay is above average. Pretty good little outfit, overall. PM me with any specific questions.

Hope that helps...

[Boris Badenov]

I worked at FLX, with Lloyd. although of course I was way senior to him and didn't put "Flight Team" on my resume.

It was a good job. Like him, I don't have any experience with the other companies, so I can only repeat what I've been told by pilots I've met in the lovely sleeprooms of the midwest. FLX pay seems to be highest, at least if you get a long duty day run. Max time run is low 40s for a first year pilot. You start in a 210. Right now upgrades to the Baron are extremely quick (for FLX) Something on the order of 4-6 months average. If you're willing to move maybe less. Maintenance is very good at CPS. I spent some time TDY in Florida and while the planes weren't by any means dangerous, they seemed a little less well cared for. Engines always kept running, though. No turbines, no contract. It will certainly qualify you to go someone and burn kerosene. I was there two years and now fly an MU-2 for Air 1st. Lloyd, overachiever that he is, is cruising the Flight Levels.

The following is JUST WHAT I'VE HEARD and is not meant to by exhaustive, authoritative, etc.

Airnet: Lots of flying, good equipment, low pay, good upgrade potential.

CASW: Lots of flying, ok equipment, middle range pay, no upgrade (but you start in a twin). Contract.

Ram: quick upgrade to twin, questionable pay&maintenance.

Ameriflight: Lot of outstation sitting (less flying), decent equipment, middle to low pay, good upgrade potential, start in a twin.

FLX: Lot of outstation sitting (less flying), lots of day routes, not much equipment but what's there works, good pay, 4-6 months to a twin, good maintenance, no turbine upgrade, no contract.

Good luck.

[ctab5060X]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

CASW: Lots of flying, ok equipment, middle range pay, no upgrade (but you start in a twin). Contract.

Considering there may be some here that meet 135 mins and are just lurking, here is some further info on CASW and Martinaire:

CASW:
The contract, for all practical purposes, has been done away with. Now, they only ask that you stay at least six months. If you do not have your ATP and want it, CASW will provide the airplane at no cost for your checkride after 6 months of employment.

Probation has been cut from $1500 for 6 months to $1700 for 3 months. After three months it is regular pay (route specific) and you are eligible for health benefits.

Basic avionics, i.e. no autopilot, no HSI, no radar. Airplanes are currently equipped with stormscopes and VFR GPSs, although IFR GPSs might be added as radios break/fail. Aircraft are very well maintained.

All aircraft are equipped with TKS for ice protection. From personal experience, this is one of the best things going for the CASW Commander's. It handles ice so much better than boots on the same airframe. For more info see here.

Martinaire:
One year training contract required. You are on probation the entire first year. Pay for first year is about 2K per month, plus per diems and extra money you can earn on the side. Health benefits available after 90 days of employment.

Good avionics. All Caravans are HSI, autopilot, and radar equipped. Most are not GPS equipped, but they do not discourage having a handheld unit. The entire fleet is very well maintained.

Most routes are UPS or DHL feeder routes, so you will spend the night in your UPS or DHL gateway city.

[KLB]

Ameriflight has it's pro's and cons. You ask ten different people if they like working here and you'll get ten different answers. Overall, I have gripes here and there, but I enjoy my job.

Pro- There is the potential to make a lot of money here. If you don't mind being away from home, TDY is the way to go in my opinion.

Con-One of the only ways to get TDY is to based out of Burbank though.

Pro-You can get upgraded to the turbine equipment fairly quickly at some bases.

Con- Some bases you have no chance of ever upgrading (OAK). And I would seriously think twice about taking and outstation for a quick upgrade because you're stuck there until they find someone to replace.

Pro-Layovers are always in a crew apartment or a hotel. That means that theres no hanging around in the FBO all day.

Con-Somes of these places are not nices places to stay in. Most of the crew apartments have the bare minimum. Some of the hotels are just plain crappy.

Pro- We have pretty decent benefits...health, dental, 401k and etc...

Con- Management does some things that tick off the pilots sometimes...like hiring into turbine equipment or certain when there may be pilots who want to upgrade into equipment or transfer into another base.

[cignaguy]

Again, can't express my gratitude enough for all of the detailed information provided, got much more than I expected!

Since I will be in the Southeast (Atlanta), Ram Air looks like a good company to consider. I will also be flexible with regards to relocating to make things work.

Sounds like for now I just need to finish up the IR (hopefully wihtin the next month), split some time and build some hours, work on the commercial and CFI and instruct for quite awhile until I have the 135 minimums.

So, just to clarify, that 500 hours of X-country can be anytime you just go from one airport to another? Guess I need to make sure that I am being very detailed in my logbook, so that I can flip back through it when it comes time.

Also, when you start instructing, how do you stay on top of your instrument skills? Do you just split some time every once in awhile with someone to stay fresh? I want to make sure I keep my skills sharp once I get my IR, and not just put them on the backburner and forget them.

[gomntwins]

Originally Posted by cignaguy

So, just to clarify, that 500 hours of X-country can be anytime you just go from one airport to another? Guess I need to make sure that I am being very detailed in my logbook, so that I can flip back through it when it comes time.

Also, when you start instructing, how do you stay on top of your instrument skills? Do you just split some time every once in awhile with someone to stay fresh? I want to make sure I keep my skills sharp once I get my IR, and not just put them on the backburner and forget them.

Yes... it's 500 hours of point to point. The only time 50n.m. means anything is if it's required for a certificate or rating, like your PPL, Instrument, CPL, etc.

Pt. 2. I got lucky. Firstoff, unlucky in the sense that I was instructing in Arizona. The number of days a year where there was suitable IFR to fly in were so very few. Usually if the field went IFR it was due to a duststorm... not something I'm gonna fly in. I got lucky in the sense that I always had a simulator (actually a flight training device) at my disposal to practice approaches in. For currency I just talked one of the instructors I worked with into watching and signing me off (we were all really good friends, it never was too hard to do). For proficiency I shot at least 6 approaches every month- most of which noboy saw, and this I never logged. All free. (usually I did buy a beer for the instuctor that helped me... not too bad overall)

Instructing was a blast, I'd recommend it to anybody. But, I sure didn't have the money every month to rent... and when I did have enough money, it meant I was instructing a ton, and talking myself into renting an airplane to shoot approaches in my little free time wasn't going to happen.

[Boris Badenov]

However you can do it. An FTD is a good way. Slightly less good but perhaps easier is just get an old copy of FS and do it that way. It doesn't feel anything like an airplane, but the procedures are what you need to practice anyway.

And for XC time, I always just made sure that when I was instructing someone, we went to another airport. It needn't be a burden on your students as there are usually other airports very closeby. I rationalized it to myself as being useful for a student to operate "out of the comfort zone" as often as possible. Who knows, perhaps it's even true.

Incidently, w/r/t your logbook: I highly recommend getting a computerized logbook ASAP. I use logbook pro and love it. You'll thank me when some company wants you to write down your single engine fixed-gear night IFR time (or something equally ridiculous) someday. The only thing I regret is waiting until I had 1300 hours to copy over.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Boris Badenov

I worked at FLX, with Lloyd. although of course I was way senior to him and didn't put "Flight Team" on my resume.

If you're going to say it, make sure you get it right: Flight Team Captain!



Don't be jealous because my soft-field landings won awards!