AirNet question?

[Maximillian_Jenius]

A guy I know on another site, recently got hired with Airnet, he wanted to know if they have a PHX operation.

He'd be maybe moving form San Diego.

[mikecweb]

Yes.
They have a Caravan.

[Maximillian_Jenius]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Yes.
They have a Caravan.

Lol, thanks. Apparently I mis read his question. He knew that they were here in PHX, as he interviewed with them here, lol!

He was deciding if he took the job where he would want to be based, as he wants to stay on the west coast.

And he was wondering if PHX would be too hot, lol!

Thanks for answering the question though Mike.

My bad...

[mikecweb]

I can tell you from experience that if I'm flying the 'van I wanna be where it's hotter then hell.

Sidebar...
I just realized that most of the Airnet guys past and present on this site are/were 'van drivers. Stonecold and Mnixon probably have more time in it then many of us have tt. I flew it for 400 hours. Flysher and Smiley flew it. Pmurphey and ackeight are flying it now.
Avery you qualified in the Caravan?
ljg loses sleep everynight because he misses riding with me in the greatest plane ever made. He's in the 'hole though so he might get his chance.
And then there is Ian. He hasn't flown it but he is still a freight puppy so he may get his chance.

Did I miss anyone???

Alot of caravan experience on this board in case any of you are going to start flying it. Especially now that the icing season is starting.

[averyrm]

I unloaded a van once, that's a close as I got to it.

[Ian J]

I'd love to fly the Van!

And freight puppy, huh? Oh, you must be talking about back in March 2002 when I was haulin' mortars and 50 cal ammo into the Sharikot Valley. Yup. I was quite new then.

(Okay, I know what you mean. )

[EatSleepFly]

I don't know, I cut my freight dog teeth in the 'Van too (~600 hrs), and flying it in PHX sounds like pure hell to me. Think of a bug under a magnifying glass.

Then again, I never had any really bad icing encounters in it.

If I ever win big in the lotto, I will have an amphibious Caravan.

[butt]

Why is the caravan so bad with icing? Is it just poorly designed de-/anti-icing equipment? I can't imagine an airplane having icing problems due to the design of the airframe, especially something as ordinary as the caravan.

[mnixon]

Originally Posted by butt

Why is the caravan so bad with icing? Is it just poorly designed de-/anti-icing equipment? I can't imagine an airplane having icing problems due to the design of the airframe, especially something as ordinary as the caravan.

underpowered, fat wing, a lot of unprotected surfaces.

[ackeight]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

ljg loses sleep everynight because he misses riding with me in the greatest plane ever made

That is debatable mike.

[Zephyr]

Two 'vans based at PHX now, one out to Flagstaff and the other out to Lake Havasu. I ferried the plane out there and floated the Havasu run last week. It was pretty cool, not sure if I'd be a big fan of being stuck on it permanently. Fly out in the morning, wait 10 hours, fly back in the evening, then repeat 5 days a week, only 2.5 hours of flight time per day. Pretty scenery though

~Z

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by mnixon

underpowered, fat wing, a lot of unprotected surfaces.

I've heard this before - and before I ever found JC, I remember reading someone's blog about a 'Van driver that was killed up in the NW due to icing.

Can Cessna not improve the icing situation, or is it simply a matter of pilot skills?

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by killbilly

I've heard this before - and before I ever found JC, I remember reading someone's blog about a 'Van driver that was killed up in the NW due to icing.

Can Cessna not improve the icing situation, or is it simply a matter of pilot skills?

It's more like experienced pilots thinking they know what the airplane can do and getting taught a lesson if you read the accident reports on it. I'll add more to this later. And, if the loads are big ones, I would take cold over heat and short(er) runways any day (or night).

[mnixon]

Originally Posted by killbilly

I've heard this before - and before I ever found JC, I remember reading someone's blog about a 'Van driver that was killed up in the NW due to icing.

Can Cessna not improve the icing situation, or is it simply a matter of pilot skills?

And I repeat, underpowered, fat wing, a lot of unprotected surfaces.

The only pilot skill needed to not get yourself killed in icing in a caravan is to get the phook out of it as soon as you get in it. People fly into the stuff thinking it's a jet or hell, even a baron. It just can't do it. You gotta get out of it. The one good thing about the van in the winter, is that if your clean wing still you can climb for days. One night I was anywhere from 15,000 down to 4000 to get out of the ice. Did I burn a lot more fuel than usual, oh yea, did it take longer than usual, oh yea, did I die, nope. You got guys cutting their teeth on icing situations in a big ole fat airplane which likes to accrue ice where you can't see it. Just because your wing looks decent, don't mean your ok. You might have a couple thousand pounds of ice on the airplane that you can't see. To all the van drivers on here who are new to ice this winter. Don't mess around in the stuff thinking your billy bada$$. If you get into it, get right back out.

This was a message from your local PTA. The more you know!

[killbilly]

Originally Posted by mnixon

You might have a couple thousand pounds of ice on the airplane that you can't see. To all the van drivers on here who are new to ice this winter. Don't mess around in the stuff thinking your billy bada$$. If you get into it, get right back out.

Icing is the boogeyman which keeps me up at night.

If you can't see the ice, then the first indication you have of icing is the alt/airspeed loss, right? Is it too late at that point?

[murphfly]

I was out having some beers with this guy that flies the 'Van and he told a story about a couple of guys that survived a crash into Lake Erie in the winter by clinging to a Caravan filled with bubblewrap (which is what they were hauling). They clung to the vert stab while the plane floated for hours until rescuers arrived.

[FlySmiley]

The van is great plane except in hot weather and cold weather. Even departing midway max gross in the summer can be an interesting experience. On the bright side, for W&B, you'll lose at least 20lbs in sweat by the time you are cleared for takeoff (although I'm sure is just soaks into the seat anyway...)

They really need to just put a bigger rudder on it for the torque and let us use the full rated power of that pt6 rather than just the 675hp.

Like the others say, get out of the icing NOW. The only plus is the heater works well (bleed air).

Problem with the ice is that you'll only get about half of your airspeed back after you blow the boots, so say you lose 20kts, you'll only get 10 of that back. Lather, rinse, repeat, and before you know it you're at the minimum icing speed in a descent hoping there is an airport nearby.

[RPJ]

Originally Posted by mnixon

And I repeat, underpowered, fat wing, a lot of unprotected surfaces.

The only pilot skill needed to not get yourself killed in icing in a caravan is to get the phook out of it as soon as you get in it. People fly into the stuff thinking it's a jet or hell, even a baron.

Does the Baron do well in known icing?

[Aviator_Bakeek]

Texas Turbines makes conversions for the 'Van. Its roughly $500,000, but I have personally seen the increase in performance and can testify that it blows the PT-6 out of the sky. The upgrade utilizes the Garret -10 or -12 (if I remember correctly).

I would love to fly the 'Van for Airnet, or any aircraft for the company.

[Berkut]

I bet the TPE-331 is a great engine in the Caravan. Lots of power, spools quick.
Plus, you get to brag to the other freight dogs about how your Caravan has an APU.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by killbilly

Icing is the boogeyman which keeps me up at night.

If you can't see the ice, then the first indication you have of icing is the alt/airspeed loss, right? Is it too late at that point?

It's never too late. Always have plans A, B, C, D, and E in the Van and you'll do fine. Usually you'll see the ice (there's a wing light that is pretty good). If you're asleep, the next indication is the prop shedding ice. It'll wake you up really quickly. Finally, and about the same time, you'll notice your airspeed dropping off. Request immediate climb. Remeber, you can always go back down if it's worse. You can almost never go back up!

I'm like Mnixon and have been all over the sky from 16,000 to 3000 to get out of it. In case it hasn't sunk in for those new to the Van, if you're in ice, get out of it.

Just a little story from one of those accidents. From what I remember, the guy in question (RIP) had 2300ish hours in the Van. He was flying in MN. I even talked to the line guys about this one since it was kinda relevant to where I was. So, story time:

Guy comes in on a very cold night. He had diverted from some place else I believe as MSP was not his normal stop. He comes in and gets fuel. The line guys say they had to chip ice off the top of the wings to get to the fuel caps. They said it was 1/4"-1/2" of ice. They ask him repeatedly if he wanted to get deiced, and he declined. They were all just shaking their heads.

The guy gets a last chance when the shift manager asked him once more if he would feel better about getting deiced as he had quite a bit on the top of the wings. Once again, he declined, stating he had seen worse. The NTSB report has all the comms on this flight. It was somebody that thought they could do more than they could with this airplane.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...02FA093&rpt=fa

That's a typical Van accident. The folklore that goes with the Van tends to keep the new guys out of trouble. It is a very unforgiving airplane if you let it stay in icing.

[Ian J]

According to the report it appears the pilot had at one point smoked some MJ...

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Ian J

According to the report it appears the pilot had at one point smoked some MJ...

I had never read that part before...interesting.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by RPJ

Does the Baron do well in known icing?

Barons approved for known icing do pretty good, but it's still not something to play around with.

[mnixon]

Who hasn't? If it was recently while he was in a career of flying, bad boy, but who hasn't in college?