Airnet hiring into choice base..

[mikecweb]

Will ASA/Express Jet/Air Whiskey/Delta or ANYONE let you ride in the cockpit to "see what it's like". New SICs go through extensive backround checks and the company has employed them. I really wouldn't suggest telling captains they they are abusing their power of PIC.
Familys riding on our system definetly made living away from home alot easier for lots of employees.
Also we do offer a free ride to Columbus if your coming to interview.

[Stone Cold]

Oh boy, this might get interesting...I'll refrain from now, since I have no dog in the fight...getting a bag of popcorn...

I will say I totally agree with mnixon 100%.

[averyrm]

The dumbest thing is that it's the TSA that decided my mom is a bigger risk in the cockpit than an interviewee.

They're all for enforcing safety when it's inconvient, but so long as it only screws over people, not companies' bottom line.

[butt]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Will ASA/Express Jet/Air Whiskey/Delta or ANYONE let you ride in the cockpit to "see what it's like". New SICs go through extensive backround checks and the company has employed them.

ASA/Express Jet/Air Whiskey/Delta are airlines which fly planes with many passengers who are already paranoid when it comes to people being in the cockpit. Before 9/11, just about anyone who wanted to come up front could as long as they had the captains permission (or at least thats how people who have been around since before 9/11 describe it.)

I really wouldn't suggest telling captains they they are abusing their power of PIC.

This is sort of a pet peeve of mine. The "I'm the PIC and I decide this is UNSAFE" card should not be played unless it's absolutly necessary. As a CFI, I fly with many different people regularly. It boggles my mind to think someone would refuse to fly with someone new because they perceive that person to be "unsafe".

There was a thread a while back where some airline guy was refusing to let non-union pilots jumpseat with him (or something like that; I don't remember the details). He played that "unsafe" card there as well. If you don't want to do it for political reasons, then just come out and say it, but don't ####yfoot around the real issue by bringing safety into it.

All us pilots out there know that when it comes to safety, management always listens. Lets not turn their ears away by diluting our concern with ######## like this.

Familys riding on our system definitely made living away from home a lot easier for lots of employees.
Also we do offer a free ride to Columbus if your coming to interview.

I agree it could make it easier on families. But letting a family member ride is not the same as a prospective employee. Those are two different reasons.

Oh boy, this might get interesting...I'll refrain from now, since I have no dog in the fight...getting a bag of popcorn...

This is another pet peeve of mine. Why is it that every time someone comes in with a differing opinion, they are viewed as a fight instigator? I'm just voicing an opinion. If you don't like it, then, whatever...

Originally Posted by averyrm

The dumbest thing is that it's the TSA that decided my mom is a bigger risk in the cockpit than an interviewee.

They're all for enforcing safety when it's inconvient, but so long as it only screws over people, not companies' bottom line.

Thats pretty short-sighted, don't you think?

[mikecweb]

You wanna know a pet peeve of mine...when someone asks a question and then the answer they get (this time from 3 current employees and 1 former) doesn't jive with what they like they belittle and keep the censoring script busy because they didn't get the answer they wanted.
Fly at night by yourself 5 days a week 12 hours a night and then be told by a dispatcher that you have a random pilot that wants to see what flying cargo is about. I think a few questions and some discretion needs to be used. If your a prospective employee submit an application and get an interview. This isn't a carnival. These are guys trying to make a living not ride operators.

[butt]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

You wanna know a pet peeve of mine...when someone asks a question and then the answer they get (this time from 3 current employees and 1 former) doesn't jive with what they like they belittle and keep the censoring script busy because they didn't get the answer they wanted.

Who says I'm belittling anyone?

Fly at night by yourself 5 days a week 12 hours a night and then be told by a dispatcher that you have a random pilot that wants to see what flying cargo is about.

I do. As a CFI you have to fly with "random" new people all the time. I may not enjoy it (I actually enjoy going with new people), but I think it's wrong to play the unsafe card. I don't like doing lazy-8's, but I'm not going to use the excuse that I'm not doing them because I feel they're unsafe.

I think a few questions and some discretion needs to be used. If your a prospective employee submit an application and get an interview. This isn't a carnival. These are guys trying to make a living not ride operators.

Carrying around prospective employees is a ride carnival, but carrying around your family members is not?

Let me get this straight. I'm under the impression this whole issue is about Airnet allowing prospective pilots ride along once, maybe twice. If people are using this service to fly all over the place multiple times a week, then I agree it's wrong. But what is so wrong with letting a wannabe hitch along so see if night cargo is his thing?

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by butt

Carrying around prospective employees is a ride carnival, but carrying around your family members is not?

I think you don't understand families used to ride the system here as if it were a non-rev benefit on an airline. They used it just like a xjet spouse would - to get where they're going.

It could screw with people because when someone is on reserve and away from home for 8 straight days - I'm sure it was nice that their spouse could catch a free ride to see the other.

Also, on another note, it's the job of a CFI to fly with random people - it is the job of an airnet pilot to fly freight. We can fly company personal and reciprocal jumpseaters. I assume we can fly interviewees because they are on "company business."

[murphfly]

Let me get this straight. I'm under the impression this whole issue is about Airnet allowing prospective pilots ride along once, maybe twice. If people are using this service to fly all over the place multiple times a week, then I agree it's wrong. But what is so wrong with letting a wannabe hitch along so see if night cargo is his thing?

Just apply and when you come for an interview you can see what flying cargo is like. Then if they call you back with a job offer, you can make the decision on whether or not you want to work here. Why would you need a "ride-a-long" flight to decide if you wanted to do this or not? There are plenty of resources out there to find out what this job is like.

[mnixon]

Sure it's political, so I'll say it. I think it's crap that the TSA enforce rules only when they see fit. If it doesn't help them, they're not interested. I trust my mom to ride because I know she's not an axe murderer. I trust everyone else that I don't know as far as I can throw them. If you want a ride, I hope your light!

[butt]

Originally Posted by murphfly

Just apply and when you come for an interview you can see what flying cargo is like. Then if they call you back with a job offer, you can make the decision on whether or not you want to work here. Why would you need a "ride-a-long" flight to decide if you wanted to do this or not? There are plenty of resources out there to find out what this job is like.

Its to create buzz and excitement. To an outsider, its fun to ride along and see everything first hand. It gets you excited and makes you want to come back for more. Kind of like an intro flight, or a college campus visit.

I think a ride along is a great recruitment tool. Especially for a company like Airnet who is losing a lot of potential pilots to the regionals.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Will ASA/Express Jet/Air Whiskey/Delta or ANYONE let you ride in the cockpit to "see what it's like".

RegionsAir did before they hired me. No jumpseat in the Jetstream of course, but seat 1B serves the same purpose.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by butt

Who says I'm belittling anyone?



I do. As a CFI you have to fly with "random" new people all the time. I may not enjoy it (I actually enjoy going with new people), but I think it's wrong to play the unsafe card. I don't like doing lazy-8's, but I'm not going to use the excuse that I'm not doing them because I feel they're unsafe.



Carrying around prospective employees is a ride carnival, but carrying around your family members is not?

Let me get this straight. I'm under the impression this whole issue is about Airnet allowing prospective pilots ride along once, maybe twice. If people are using this service to fly all over the place multiple times a week, then I agree it's wrong. But what is so wrong with letting a wannabe hitch along so see if night cargo is his thing?

I believe you said my friend and coworker was "****yfooting" around and telling them they aren't using their PIC authority in the correct way. That's pretty damn bold of you to determine another pilots PIC authority.
The last thing us starcheckers wanna do is turn away potential pilots but on that same token we need to look out for ourselves as much as possible and not give away the farm just because the industry is short on pilots.
Do what Pmurph suggested. If you're dead set on going for a ride don't for a second consider it a right at all, it's is most definetly a privilege.

[butt]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

I believe you said my friend and coworker was "****yfooting" around and telling them they aren't using their PIC authority in the correct way. That's pretty damn bold of you to determine another pilots PIC authority.

My issue was with him implying it is a safety hazard to haul a prospective employee around on a ride-along.

I have no problem with someone having political opinions relating to ride-alongs. I personally feel it is a good idea, but regardless, I think it's an abuse of the PIC authority by playing the sacred "safety card" to make a political expression.

If you want to make a statement, then ball-up and make it. Don't hide behind a made up safety concern.

Its like a cop using his lights and sirens to get through heavy traffic in time to watch a football game on TV.

The last thing us starcheckers wanna do is turn away potential pilots but on that same token we need to look out for ourselves as much as possible and not give away the farm just because the industry is short on pilots.
Do what Pmurph suggested. If you're dead set on going for a ride don't for a second consider it a right at all, it's is most definitely a privilege.

I honestly don't see how these two issues are related. Taking prospective employers on a ride along is a completely different "operation", than letting family ride along whenever they please. Many large corporations have budgets for paying for things like sports tickets, dinners at expensive restaurants, and such all for people who are prospective employees. None of the people who are already employed get any of these benefits, yet no-one complains. How is this any different?

[murphfly]

Originally Posted by butt

I honestly don't see how these two issues are related. Taking prospective employers on a ride along is a completely different "operation", than letting family ride along whenever they please. Many large corporations have budgets for paying for things like sports tickets, dinners at expensive restaurants, and such all for people who are prospective employees. None of the people who are already employed get any of these benefits, yet no-one complains. How is this any different?

It's different b/c our families USED to be able to ride the system. Then the TSA put a stop to that b/c they said it was a safety concern. But when the company wants to put "observers" on the flights so they can see what our jobs are like, the TSA OKs it. The employees' families still can't ride though, but anyone off the street can...do you see where this causes a problem? I just don't think you are quite understanding where we're coming from. It's quite a sore subject. But like I said earlier just apply and get the interview. I took a guy to an interview and he got a ride in the Baron and the Lear. That got him really excited about the job and now he's in Initial training. IMO, that's how it should work out.

[mikecweb]

This where I give up, shake my head, and say good luck.

[mnixon]

Originally Posted by butt

My issue was with him implying it is a safety hazard to haul a prospective employee around on a ride-along.

I have no problem with someone having political opinions relating to ride-alongs. I personally feel it is a good idea, but regardless, I think it's an abuse of the PIC authority by playing the sacred "safety card" to make a political expression.

If you want to make a statement, then ball-up and make it. Don't hide behind a made up safety concern.

Its like a cop using his lights and sirens to get through heavy traffic in time to watch a football game on TV.



I honestly don't see how these two issues are related. Taking prospective employers on a ride along is a completely different "operation", than letting family ride along whenever they please. Many large corporations have budgets for paying for things like sports tickets, dinners at expensive restaurants, and such all for people who are prospective employees. None of the people who are already employed get any of these benefits, yet no-one complains. How is this any different?

See my above post where I "ball'd up" and told you it was political.

It boils down to this, I don't like carrying people, period and end of story. That's why I fly cargo. That was a joke. What isn't a joke is the fact is that Airnet and the TSA feel comfy putting some random dude or dudette in the front of my airplane with a full set of controls in front of them. Why? Because they have a commercial certificate. I don't know about you, but try that with UAL. "Excuse me Captain, I'm thinking about applying here, so I'd like to sit in the right seat here for the flight. I promise I won't touch anything." That'd go over well.

AirNet may not be a first class international air carrier, but were an air carrier nonetheless. Whats to stop some nutjob from requesting a ride and flipping out midflight, karate chop me ninja style and crash us. Or, lets say were flying through some nasty wx and the guy flips out and grabs controls. Then we have the issue of a bloody corpse next to me. Cleaning bills add up after a while ya know? You feelin me now there butt? Try to understand it from our perspective and you'll gain some insight into the situation.

The family thing is purely political, whereas my authority as PIC is not. Are we clear?

[Brand X]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

You wanna know a pet peeve of mine...when someone asks a question and then the answer they get (this time from 3 current employees and 1 former) doesn't jive with what they like they belittle and keep the censoring script busy because they didn't get the answer they wanted.
Fly at night by yourself 5 days a week 12 hours a night and then be told by a dispatcher that you have a random pilot that wants to see what flying cargo is about. I think a few questions and some discretion needs to be used. If your a prospective employee submit an application and get an interview. This isn't a carnival. These are guys trying to make a living not ride operators.

Can I ride along on my old run?

[Brand X]

Originally Posted by mnixon

See my above post where I "ball'd up" and told you it was political.

It boils down to this, I don't like carrying people, period and end of story. That's why I fly cargo. That was a joke. What isn't a joke is the fact is that Airnet and the TSA feel comfy putting some random dude or dudette in the front of my airplane with a full set of controls in front of them. Why? Because they have a commercial certificate. I don't know about you, but try that with UAL. "Excuse me Captain, I'm thinking about applying here, so I'd like to sit in the right seat here for the flight. I promise I won't touch anything." That'd go over well.

AirNet may not be a first class international air carrier, but were an air carrier nonetheless. Whats to stop some nutjob from requesting a ride and flipping out midflight, karate chop me ninja style and crash us. Or, lets say were flying through some nasty wx and the guy flips out and grabs controls. Then we have the issue of a bloody corpse next to me. Cleaning bills add up after a while ya know? You feelin me now there butt? Try to understand it from our perspective and you'll gain some insight into the situation.

The family thing is purely political, whereas my authority as PIC is not. Are we clear?

I heard that about Airnet. They force you guys to fly through thunderstorms and fly in known icing conditions.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by murphfly

It's different b/c our families USED to be able to ride the system. Then the TSA put a stop to that b/c they said it was a safety concern. But when the company wants to put "observers" on the flights so they can see what our jobs are like, the TSA OKs it. The employees' families still can't ride though, but anyone off the street can...do you see where this causes a problem? I just don't think you are quite understanding where we're coming from. It's quite a sore subject. But like I said earlier just apply and get the interview. I took a guy to an interview and he got a ride in the Baron and the Lear. That got him really excited about the job and now he's in Initial training. IMO, that's how it should work out.

I flew on 3 different Chieftains and a Lear on the way to and from my interview. Gave me a great perspective of the company, and allowed me to quiz 5 different pilots.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Brand X

Can I ride along on my old run?

If it's even still there, you probably could. What's the status of agreements with y'all for jumpseaters? Not even sure you'd know, but last I heard, they were working on it (a year ago now)...

[Brand X]

Originally Posted by Stone Cold

If it's even still there, you probably could. What's the status of agreements with y'all for jumpseaters? Not even sure you'd know, but last I heard, they were working on it (a year ago now)...

Used to fly 131 BFI-DSM-MDW-DEN-PDX-BFI. 602 STP-DSM-CMH-STP.
231 DEN-DSM-OMA-DEN. 232 DEN-DSM-CMH-DEN. 233 DEN-PHX-DEN.

[falconvalley]

Originally Posted by Brand X

I heard that about Airnet. They force you guys to fly through thunderstorms and fly in known icing conditions.

[mnixon]

Originally Posted by Brand X

I heard that about Airnet. They force you guys to fly through thunderstorms and fly in known icing conditions.

If thats what you took away from that message, well, wow.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by mnixon

If thats what you took away from that message, well, wow.

Uh, I am pretty sure he was being sarcastic...he's former USC. His (former) routes here:

Originally Posted by Brand X

Used to fly 131 BFI-DSM-MDW-DEN-PDX-BFI. 602 STP-DSM-CMH-STP.
231 DEN-DSM-OMA-DEN. 232 DEN-DSM-CMH-DEN. 233 DEN-PHX-DEN.

[butt]

Originally Posted by murphfly

It's different b/c our families USED to be able to ride the system. Then the TSA put a stop to that b/c they said it was a safety concern. But when the company wants to put "observers" on the flights so they can see what our jobs are like, the TSA OKs it. The employees' families still can't ride though, but anyone off the street can...do you see where this causes a problem?

Look at it from the TSA's point of view. Who do you think they would rather have in the cockpit? Someone who has at least 250 hours in some kind of plane, as well as a passed checkride by a DPE to commercial standards, or your aunt Sally? To you, aunt Sally is more trustworthy, but not to the TSA. They see aunt Sally as the one "off the street".

You might say "It's my cockpit, I don't care what the TSA thinks, it's all my decision". Sadly, 9/11 changed all that. Theres not much you can do about it. I guess you can stage protests against the TSA, but refusing observer rides is just screwing over your company.

That got him really excited about the job and now he's in Initial training. IMO, that's how it should work out.

Then what do you have against these types of flights?

See my above post where I "ball'd up" and told you it was political.

OK great. You're refusing these flights because you don't fell it's right, not because of any safety concern. Right? Thats all right with me. You can refuse a passenger for any reason you like, thats all within the scope of PIC. Just don't make it into a safety issue. The person sitting in there riding along is not going to freak out and karate chop your face off. You know that. By claiming something like this is going to happen, you are abusing your power of PIC. You're playing the safety card because you know it will win, wheras playing the "I don't feel like it" card (which you admit is how you feel about this), you'll lose. This is dishonest and unethical.

It boils down to this, I don't like carrying people, period and end of story. That's why I fly cargo. That was a joke.

What was a joke?

What isn't a joke is the fact is that Airnet and the TSA feel comfy putting some random dude or dudette in the front of my airplane with a full set of controls in front of them. Why? Because they have a commercial certificate.

The TSA is putting them there? No, your company is putting them there.

I don't know about you, but try that with UAL. "Excuse me Captain, I'm thinking about applying here, so I'd like to sit in the right seat here for the flight. I promise I won't touch anything." That'd go over well.

This used to happen all the time before 9/11. It did go over well.

AirNet may not be a first class international air carrier, but were an air carrier nonetheless. Whats to stop some nutjob from requesting a ride and flipping out midflight, karate chop me ninja style and crash us. Or, lets say were flying through some nasty wx and the guy flips out and grabs controls. Then we have the issue of a bloody corpse next to me. Cleaning bills add up after a while ya know? You feelin me now there butt? Try to understand it from our perspective and you'll gain some insight into the situation.

Are you joking here? Because it looks to me that you're playing the safety card again.

The family thing is purely political, whereas my authority as PIC is not. Are we clear?

not really