Regional vs Cargo route to Major

[Okie_Pilot]

Ok. Say my first year and half, two years in college, I manage to get my CFI certificate and start instructing my last two years or so in college. When I visited the flight line of OSU, and talked to an instructor, I asked him about how many hours he instructed in a week. He responded with "We instruct/fly about 20 hours a week." Ok, that comes out to 80/month, 960/year. Since I would be going to college full time and all that, let's just say that I take it a little easier, or don't have that many students, and only instruct 15 hours/week, or a little over 600/year.

Hypothetically, in two years time, one would have 1200 hours, hopefully some multi thrown in there too, once I got my MEI rating too.

Long term goal. Majors, FedEx, ABXAir, etc. etc.

With 1200 hours, CFII/MEI, do you think I could get hired on by a regional? A better regional that is, not Mesa, or some other "Commercial certificate and your hired" companies.

What I'm trying to say is. Whether it be a pax Major, or FedEx, ABXAir, UPS. Would they look very differently on if I came from a Regional, or say a FedEx feeder like Mountain Air Cargo? Mountain Air Cargo has Caravans, Shorts, and ATR42/72's. We all know the overall "general" requirements for the regionals. Mountain Air Cargo's requirement for a FO is:
1000 hours total time
500 PIC
100 Multi-engine
(or equivalent –will discuss) Commercial license with Multi-engine & Instrument ratings
Current 1st Class Medical
U.S. work authorization required

They don't list a FO for the Caravan, since I'm assuming that would be single pilot operation anyways. If my long time goal would be to go to FedEx, or a Major, would it make a big difference if I came from a regional or a feeder like MAC?

I wish I had more time to add to this, but I have to go right now. All of your opinions and thoughts are appreciated.


--Okie_Pilot

[E6BAV8R]

Sorry I dont have an answer to the question, but which OSU are you talking about? Just wondering

[Flyboy 4]

I wish I had the answer to this too. I have been browsing small frieght companies web pages as well. I will be watching this thread for answers. Hope you don't mind me piggy backin on your thread.

[Trip7]

Either way will get you where you want to go. Comes down to which kind of flying you enjoy.

[Doug Taylor]

Turbine multi-engine PIC is king. Notice I didn't differentiate "jet" from "turboprop".

There are guys from pretty much all walks of aviation that I've flown with.

Naturally, airlines love military pilots. But I've also flown with, or know, many pilots at my airlines that came straight over from turboprop regionals (me), jet regionals, single-pilot operations like Ameriflight and lots of corporate flight departments.

[n57flyguy]

1,200 hours CFI/MEI should be enough to go regional, they are just hiring like crazy. And of course if you are competent enough....

DT, are there really a lot that come from corporate?

[Doug Taylor]

Came, yes, but I've only met a corporate guy or two from the second new hire class that I ran into during 76 school.

[OldTownPilot]

There is a guy that had zero multi turbine time when he was hired by CAL about a year ago. All his multi was in a piston twin and his turbine in a Caravan.

Plenty of guys at CAL from Ameriflight, Airnet, the fracs and corprate.

[Okie_Pilot]

Flyboy4, everybody's welcome to ask questions pertaining to this, I might learn about something I didn't think about. This is the best site you can come to if you need advice or help.

I was trying to look at it from the Major side. If the regular Majors would look at flying the ATR42/72 or Shorts, or even Caravan as well as compared to a CRJ/ERJ etc. etc.

Say I flew the ATR42/72, or any multi-engine turbine, for Mountain Air Cargo, a large feeder for FedEx. Since I would have experience flying cargo at night, would FedEx look at this experience to be more "valuable" than say a guy coming from a regional?

I'm trying to see if this would be a more favorable route to take if I was planning to go the cargo route, or if it would be a not so good route if I was trying to get to a regular Major airline.

Mountain Air Cargo looks like a pretty good company to work for. No pilot layoff's in the company's 30 year operation. All first year FO's starting at $25,000 sounds pretty good compared to some of the starting regional salaries we've all heard about. Then the first year for the Caravan captain is at $32,800. The site this is on, also says a $27/day per diem. Does this sound normal? Per diem like that would only sound like international travel or something.

Thank you for your opinions and advice. As you read above, I'm not the only one looking for a little advice on this topic.


E6BAV8R, OKLAHOMA STATE UNIVERSITY!!


--Okie_Pilot

[wheelsup]

You might want to do some in depth research of Mountain Air Cargo and it's hiring and upgrade practices. The last I heard upgrade, left seat into the bigger turbines was around 5 years although that could change I suppose.

Going from the Van to the ATR takes a long time (according to a source on FI.com the last person to do it was at MAC for 6 years on the Van before he was able to move over). No matter what anyone will tell you turbine PIC is turbine PIC but I wouldn't pin my hopes on Delta interviewing you because of all your Biggie Sized C172 time. Multi turbine time is king, not single.

The per diem is for floaters only I believe, unless they've changed that recently too.

[mikecweb]

Depending on your flexibility with bases you might wanna take a look at Airnet or Ameriflight. At Airnet you can fly piston multis or Caravans right out of training and upgrade to the lear is a little over a year. There is alot of movement in the company right now. Guys are getting nervous that the regional hiring boom is going to slow down so they wanna get out and get a number before it's too late.
It's more then just the route that will take you to a major the quickest however. Flying freight vs. regionals are two completely different animals. As much as we might poke fun at each other neither is better then the other, they just demand different things out of the pilots. Flying on the backside of the clock in old airplanes freaks some people out. Flying anything with 50 people it the back freaks some people out too.
I love flying freight. If I could, I would do it for the rest of my career. I just get a sense of accomplishment when all that stuff back there makes it's connection or destination on time, even though the conditions weren't ideal and required alot of my planning and execution with no one there to give me guidance. If grandama Jean and the drunk guy sitting two rows in front of her, who has been complaining the whole time, miss their connection I really could careless. It's just a personal preference however.
You can get to a Major from flying freight. Just realize however, if you haven't flown with any passengers before are you you really ready to flying with 100+ in the back? There is alot of customer relations involved with flying people. I have never seen my customer flying freight. All we see is the cargo. Good luck and feel free to PM me any other questions about Airnet.
Oh and wheels don't call it a biggie sized 172.

[Okie_Pilot]

Ouch, 5 years upgrade time from Caravan to Multi. I've looked at AirNet for awhile and it seems like a really good operation. Multi-time in the Baron, and a short upgrade time to the Lear. Mikecweb, what is the average upgrade time from Learjet FO, to Captain?

I was smiling about the Mountain Air Cargo, since it's a feeder for FedEx, and they were flying the larger ATR42/72's and the pay seemed pretty good compared to others, but sheesh, why would I want to spend over 5 years flying a Caravan, then also the time sitting as FO in the ATR, when I could already of been sitting in a Lear for the past 3?

Another concern I was wondering about was. How much does it matter to the Majors if it was 2500 hours sitting in a Lear, or 2500 hours sitting in a RJ? Or is it all the same since they have to train you for the aircraft you'll be flying anyways?

If I already had 1200tt when I got out of college, I wouldn't want to spend another 3 or more flying cargo to apply for the same regional I could of gotten a job at, right out of college. I'm talking about either going from college to a regional then to major, or college to cargo then to major.


Thanks for all the help guys.


--Okie_Pilot

[KLB]

Turbine is turbine as far as the majors are concerned.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

Came, yes, but I've only met a corporate guy or two from the second new hire class that I ran into during 76 school.

Ah, okay, It seems right now, I have got NO idea where I want to go, but it might be worth it to just try it out (sorta sounds naive).

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by mikecweb

Oh and wheels don't call it a biggie sized 172.

Hey if it makes you feel any better you can call the RJ a "Barbie Jet" .

[JayAre]

Originally Posted by KLB

Turbine is turbine as far as the majors are concerned.

That depends. I have heard of three AMF pilots interview with SWA Than I heard some from PHX interviewed with other majors and got the thanks but no thanks come back when you have 121 crew time.

But I agree with you thats why Im staying, and going the cargo route.

[TheOneMarine]

JayAre, or anyone for that matter, what if you start and continue to fly and aircraft like a Shorts 360 or lear that requires a 2 man crew, would they still want it to be 121 time? Hope someone can clear this up.

[Beers]

Originally Posted by TheOneMarine

JayAre, or anyone for that matter, what if you start and continue to fly and aircraft like a Shorts 360 or lear that requires a 2 man crew, would they still want it to be 121 time? Hope someone can clear this up.

In the past there were some airlines that did specify a number of hours of 121 time as one of the requirements. I think AirTran was one of them. For the majority it does not seem to matter as long as you have crew time, multi-turbine time, and multi-turbine PIC.

The major advantage of going to a regional over cargo if your career is a major is the fact you will be flying with many different people who are headed the same direction as you. Captains you will fly with will move on to a company you want to be at and can give you some help and/or a letter of recommendation to help with getting and passing the interview. You will not get as many of those connections in cargo, however cargo may provide you a wider variety of connections in different segments of the industry.

[TheOneMarine]

Originally Posted by Beers

In the past there were some airlines that did specify a number of hours of 121 time as one of the requirements. I think AirTran was one of them. For the majority it does not seem to matter as long as you have crew time, multi-turbine time, and multi-turbine PIC.

The major advantage of going to a regional over cargo if your career is a major is the fact you will be flying with many different people who are headed the same direction as you. Captains you will fly with will move on to a company you want to be at and can give you some help and/or a letter of recommendation to help with getting and passing the interview. You will not get as many of those connections in cargo, however cargo may provide you a wider variety of connections in different segments of the industry.

Yea, makes sense. But the only airline I would want honestly is SWA. Other than that all I really want is to go corporate or big cargo like FedEx, UPS, etc. Just not my cup of tea dealing with all those random people. Would much rather have a steady customer base

[KLB]

Man where have you been? Has your ole lady popped yet.

Originally Posted by JayAre

That depends. I have heard of three AMF pilots interview with SWA Than I heard some from PHX interviewed with other majors and got the thanks but no thanks come back when you have 121 crew time.

But I agree with you thats why Im staying, and going the cargo route.

[jtrain609]

Rumor has it she did.

[KLB]

Originally Posted by JayAre

That depends. I have heard of three AMF pilots interview with SWA Than I heard some from PHX interviewed with other majors and got the thanks but no thanks come back when you have 121 crew time.

I agree with that. If SWA didn't want to atleast take a look at the guys, they wouldn't have invited them to the interview. The truth is that they have so many applicants to pick and chose from. It's really good that we have so many people atleast being invited to interview when we're only a group of about 200 pilots.

Imagine how many pilots with the 121 experience that get the thanks but no thanks.

[jtrain609]

I've heard Southwest interviews just to interview, and will only hire a quarter of the folks they interview.

[KLB]

Thats not what they said in the open house that I went to last year. They said that if they called you in they were looking to hire you. They could have just been BS'ing though. Like I said, they have so many people wanting to be there....you have to be virtually perfect.

[JayAre]

Originally Posted by KLB

Man where have you been? Has your ole lady popped yet.

Thead Jack
Dude check out the family life section youll see my post

U finished the 99 yet?


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ugh