AirNet: safety vs. on-time

[RyosukeFC]

When flying freight there's obviously a huge burden to get things to their destination on time. AirNet seems to have a high reliability for that. But at the same time they have a great safety record.

Have any of you had to make a tough decision when it came to safety vs. getting to the destination on time? Does it happen often? What does the corporate culture tell you and do you agree with it?

[jtrain609]

I can tell you at Ameriflight you'll get fired if you get caught breaking a reg or an operating procedure to get the freight there a few seconds sooner. We want our guys to operate safely and efficently, and we understand that it means that the freight will NOT always get there, and sometimes it doesn't get there on time.

[Beers]

Originally Posted by RyosukeFC

Have any of you had to make a tough decision when it came to safety vs. getting to the destination on time?

That should be an oxymoron of sorts. A decision on safety versus on time should not be tough. Only after the safety aspect is taken care of will I worry about on time performance.

[RyosukeFC]

I think that's how it should be... safety first. I guess i was trying to ask: how often do you have to divert because of bad weather, and when you do what (if any) consequences would you face?

[jtrain609]

If you have to divert, you have to divert. The company can't force you to duck under minimums. If they do, then call the FAA and they'll get shut down real fast.

Neither Airnet nor Ameriflight will ever make, or recommend that a pilot do that.

[mikecweb]

Originally Posted by RyosukeFC

I think that's how it should be... safety first. I guess i was trying to ask: how often do you have to divert because of bad weather, and when you do what (if any) consequences would you face?

Bad weather is a very relative expression.
What one person says is bad another person may thing is a cake walk.
If you have to divert because it is not legal to continue then you are expected to divert. If the situation doesn't give you the warm and fuzzies but is still legal then you are expected to arrive at your destination on-time in a safe manner.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by RyosukeFC

I think that's how it should be... safety first. I guess i was trying to ask: how often do you have to divert because of bad weather, and when you do what (if any) consequences would you face?

I was chatting with a Wiggins Air pilot and I thought it was just "go for it, get it there" type deal. Well, come to find out, they are even more strict (FedEx branded feeder) on your comprosmise of safety in a flight. One guy can go while one stays behind, both can go, both don't have to go and dispact wont be a problem for you. I was told if there is any doubt safetyy would be compromised, don't make the flight. But, that is Wiggins policy.

but, Airnow......

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by RyosukeFC

I guess i was trying to ask: how often do you have to divert because of bad weather, and when you do what (if any) consequences would you face?

Great question. Just as my Airnet counterpart said, safety is relative. My good friend Jtrain has been flying out west with Ameriflight. Well, let's just say that most West Coasters will freak out at the first flash of lightening or boom of thunder.

However, if you fly freight down in the Southeastern U.S. for a while, you learn just how close you can get to a storm, just how to read the radar, and how to tell just how much you can tango with a nasty line.

EatSleepFly flew quite a bit of freight up north. So, while I've dealt with a great deal of ice in Tennessee, he's probably got a much better understanding of icing, how to get out of it, and how much is too much.

In my time with FLX since April of last year, I've cancelled one day of flying. Our dispatchers (i.e. flight followers - they have NO legal authority) gave me crap, and transferred me to the D.O., hoping that he'd force my hand. His answer? "If you don't think it's safe to fly, don't fly". That was the end of it.

Also, one night last fall/winter (I don't know the seasons very well . . . I'm from California! , I tried to work my way through a line between Atlanta and Nashville, and ended up turning around and landing back in Atlanta.

Like Mikecweb said, if it's safe and legal, you're expected to do it. If you're in an airplane equipped for flight into known icing and there's icing conditions, you're expected to man up and go. Now, if the anti/de-icing equipment on your plane can't keep up with the rate of accumulation, then it's not legal. Otherwise, you have no excuse.

Thunderstorms in the area? That's not a reason not to go. A line of thunderstorms? That's not a reason not to go. A solid line of severe storms with tops at FL450, no holes, tornadoes, hail, etc? Well, maybe you'd better wait it out.

All of that being said, the whine factor tends to be pretty low among the freight guys and girls. We learn what the limits of the pilot and the machine are, and we walk it, staying just on the safe and legal side.

Either that, or you die.

[TFaudree_ERAU]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

In my time with FLX since April of last year, I've cancelled one day of flying. Our dispatchers (i.e. flight followers - they have NO legal authority) gave me crap, and transferred me to the D.O., hoping that he'd force my hand. His answer? "If you don't think it's safe to fly, don't fly". That was the end of it.

Us boys down in Tampa just tell dispatch to shove it (in a very figurative sense of the term). The D.O. is sound asleep during the hours we're flying down here.

[pilot4500]

Originally Posted by n57flyguy

I was chatting with a Wiggins Air pilot and I thought it was just "go for it, get it there" type deal. Well, come to find out, they are even more strict (FedEx branded feeder) on your comprosmise of safety in a flight. One guy can go while one stays behind, both can go, both don't have to go and dispact wont be a problem for you. I was told if there is any doubt safetyy would be compromised, don't make the flight. But, that is Wiggins policy.

but, Airnow......

Stay as far away as you can from Airnow!

[FlySmiley]

At Airnet you will learn how to operate efficiently. When you first start training, the operational pace that you are expected to keep on the line may seem a bit overwhelming, but eventually you grasp how to get everything done on time and legally.

Your judgement will never be questioned with regards to safety, unless you do something unsafe. When I first started flying the line I did some flights that took me outside of my comfort zone, but since it was legal and doable I went. My first experience inside of a thunderstorm was on the line by myself. My first experience with severe icing was on the line by myself. My first experience landing in a 30+kt crosswind in blowing snow on an extremely icy runway was on the line by myself. My first experience with freezing rain was on the line by myself.. You get the picture. I had a lot of experience coming in.. or so I thought. The point is your comfort zone is not necessarily what is legal and in reality safe. In most cases even if it does not seem like a "good idea" to go, it is probably managable. As you gain experience on the line, you learn what you do not want to repeat.

To date with Airnet, I have had one flight cancelled for weather. The airport was closed due to freezing rain and the government deciding that nobody should fly. I have learned that nine times out of ten it is not as bad as it looks. A little common sense and knowing the limitations of your aircraft will keep you safe. To be quite honest, we spend so much time dealing with bad weather that you just get used to it.

To answer your question though, you will not be pressured to fly if you feel it would not be safe. The company would rather delay, have another pilot do it, drive it by truck, etc.. than have an accident to deal with and another pilot to recruit. That being said.. if your "personal minimums" are 500 and 1, and you cancel any flight that is lower than that your judgement may be questioned.

[n57flyguy]

Originally Posted by pilot4500

Stay as far away as you can from Airnow!

I know!

[jtrain609]

Hey hey hey, I DID spend a year in Texas dodging thunderstorms. I can get up with the get down!

[MSUDAWG]

Don't be late, PENETRATE!!

haha sorry, I heard that one recently and thought it was pretty funny...Disclaimer: I WOULDNT RECOMMEND IT

[pilot4500]

If you penetrate a storm cell once, you probably won't want to do it again.