Do you use a yoke mount GPS?

[BrianNC]

Do any of you freight dawgs with no GPS or radar in your planes use a yoke mount GPS with or without nexrad?

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by BrianNC

Do any of you freight dawgs with no GPS or radar in your planes use a yoke mount GPS with or without nexrad?

Wrong section for me to post in, but I tried on of those Yoke mounted GPS deals, and well. It was in the backseat by the end of the taxiway. I just can't deal with crap on the yoke.

[BrianNC]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

Wrong section for me to post in, but I tried on of those Yoke mounted GPS deals, and well. It was in the backseat by the end of the taxiway. I just can't deal with crap on the yoke.

I'm not a freight dawg, but I personally use one. It being on the yoke doesn't bother me at all.

The intent of the question really was to see if those that are flying in a lot of weather, etc., with minimum equipment use some things on their own to make up for it.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by BrianNC

I'm not a freight dawg, but I personally use one. It being on the yoke doesn't bother me at all.

The intent of the question really was to see if those that are flying in a lot of weather, etc., with minimum equipment use some things on their own to make up for it.

I am sure alot of them do, its great for Situational Awareness if nothing else.

Wait this is the Freight section....Hell no they don't use those, it gets in the way of their enormous ball sacks.

Man I am way to Coffee filled this morning. Beofe anyone jumps my ass. My CFI is a former Dawg himself, and I am damn lucky to have him as an instructor. I have much respect for you.

[Texasspilot]

A couple people at our company have those 396's???? I think. They're nice I guess but nothin you need. There was a guy who had on with the radar weather on it and learned to fly in florida using it to navigate around t-storms out there but when he got into the midwest and tried it he ended up with chunks out of the nose from the hailstorm he flew the plane through.

[EatSleepFly]

You can get in pretty big trouble with the FAA if they catch you using a handheld GPS under 135, especially IFR.

I'm sure a few people use them, but I hope that "hide GPS deep in flight bag" is part of their approach flow.

[jtrain609]

Even for situational awareness? I'd be hard pressed to be flying around in mountains without a GPS on board and no GPWS either.

[BrianNC]

Originally Posted by EatSleepFly

You can get in pretty big trouble with the FAA if they catch you using a handheld GPS under 135, especially IFR.

I'm sure a few people use them, but I hope that "hide GPS deep in flight bag" is part of their approach flow.

I thought even the FAA said a GPS is all right for situational awareness, even in IFR, as long as you are using it for situational awareness alone and not trying to to approaches with a non-IFR cetified GPS.

[desertdog71]

Originally Posted by desertdog71

I am sure alot of them do, its great for Situational Awareness if nothing else.

Yep, I wouldn't even begin to suggest it be used for anything other than just added information.

[EatSleepFly]

Originally Posted by BrianNC

I thought even the FAA said a GPS is all right for situational awareness, even in IFR, as long as you are using it for situational awareness alone and not trying to to approaches with a non-IFR cetified GPS.

It is, under Part 91.

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

Even for situational awareness? I'd be hard pressed to be flying around in mountains without a GPS on board and no GPWS either.

No GPWS, no GPS.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by Texasspilot

There was a guy who had on with the radar weather on it and learned to fly in florida using it to navigate around t-storms out there but when he got into the midwest and tried it he ended up with chunks out of the nose from the hailstorm he flew the plane through.

Some people have to learn the hard way. Florida thunderstorms are nasty. Midwest thunderstorms eat Florida Thunderstorms for lunch.

I know I learned the hard way . . .

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I'd be hard pressed to be flying around in mountains without a GPS on board and no GPWS either.

Oh, I'm gonna get you overto the dark side, and you'll be born again hard!

[wombat]

Originally Posted by EatSleepFly

You can get in pretty big trouble with the FAA if they catch you using a handheld GPS under 135, especially IFR.

I'm sure a few people use them, but I hope that "hide GPS deep in flight bag" is part of their approach flow.

i've never heard this before. where's that regulation?

[Trybysky]

I'd like to see where it says you can't use it too. I have always heard, "if" you happen to have one out and on, make sure it's as deep as you can get it in your bag prior to landing...however, i've never seen it in writing.......hmmm.

[EatSleepFly]

Originally Posted by Trybysky

I'd like to see where it says you can't use it too.

Not sure. I suppose Bob might know, but if someone called and asked him that, we'd hear him scream all the way up here. "NOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Seriously though, I heard it's in FAA Order 8400.10 (?) book (air carrier inspectors handbook, whatever number it is), which I can't seem to find online.

Although, another possibly more direct answer might be 135.144. Relevant part in bold...

Originally Posted by The Man

§ 135.144 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c). The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used.

I guess that alone would be why you technically can't use one even VFR. Well, unless your specific company approves of them, that is.

On top of that, the only other thing I can think of is any GPS for use under IFR has to be approved by aircraft type, and GPS make/model in the ops. specs.

Although as long as it was being used for situational awareness only, I think the only things stopping it would be 135.144 above, and company policy. And perhaps whatever is hidden in that inspector's handbook, if anything.

I don't even have one, and of course I have never ever ever seen anyone use one. BUT, I think if they did just for situational awareness, they'd probably better remember to hide it before landing, lest they taxi up to their parking spot someday where a couple of visiting FAA guys see it sitting on the glareshield. That would ruin someone's day, I'm sure.

[mtsu_av8er]

§ 135.144 Portable electronic devices.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c). The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used.

Hmmm . . . need we hide the IPODS, CD players, timers, etc?

[wombat]

Originally Posted by mtsu_av8er

[/b][/i]Hmmm . . . need we hide the IPODS, CD players, timers, etc?

no IPOD?? that's required equipment!

they've never said anything about my GPS when i've been ramp checked. wouldn't my ANR headsets be considered a portable electronic device too?

[EatSleepFly]

I'm not the FAA, knock yourselves out. You can use whatever your company says you can use. I'm sure calculators, timers, and headsets would fall into that category. I merely took an educated guess at which "written rule" people are thinking of when they say handheld GPS's aren't allowed.

Also, an Ipod would probably fall under "portable voice recorder," which is on the list of exceptions.

[bluelake]

Originally Posted by EatSleepFly

I'm not the FAA, knock yourselves out. You can use whatever your company says you can use. I'm sure calculators, timers, and headsets would fall into that category. I merely took an educated guess at which "written rule" people are thinking of when they say handheld GPS's aren't allowed.

Also, an Ipod would probably fall under "portable voice recorder," which is on the list of exceptions.

I know my 135 freight "part 119 certificate holder" deemed 'em safe enough to hand them out to us if we did not have our own to use.

As to the yoke mount? I used one I think like once or twice. It seems as if my co-workers who were outstationed and hence had one airplane would mount it on the yoke and it would remain there until they had to swap planes for a phase inspection. For ME, I was based at company HQ. I flew a different plane each day or so, so i got sick of the extra hardware and after a while just got used to setting it on the right seat. We ARE talking single pilot here

One more note. Seems as if lots of folks mention the situational value of having the handheld, and that is no doubt true. If you are flying a consistent freight route, after a while the handheld provides diminishing returns in terms of situational A, because... well uh, you pretty much ALWAYS know where you are. What I DID end up using it for towards the twilight of my DOG flying was to just calculate ETA. You see, we were encouraged to cruise at climb power if we thought we were gonna be late. Problem was that you would cruise at climb power (and pretty much BLOW the company's profit margin on the run) only to land NOT late sometimes. So, I would fire up ol' Lowrance Airmap500, hit ETA to Mather, and if I was on time I would cruise at normal. If my ETA put me late? I would bump up the power.

This is long winded, but I thought I would add it because for all the uses of the handheld, in the end, I pretty much just used it as an "economics" tool.

Missing the 402C!
Bluelake

[falconvalley]

If it's not approved equipment or on the certificate you can't use it for navigation, but no one can stop you from getting it out of your bag and turning it on and using it as an overlay for situational awareness. Any inspector that tries to pull that electronic interference bs thinks that they're on to something more.

[Hootie]

What is GPS? And how does it relate to flying freight in a pos?

[azvandriver]

You can use whatever you want 135, as long as the DO or "certificate holder" authorizes it. You can even carry a gun.

I used a handheld hiking gps for 135 vfr for about 2 days. Then I learned to fly towad the big mountain on the horizon, and that my ground speed was the same wether I had an electronic speedometer or not. Though, sometimes when avoiding thunderstorms I wish it wasn't in my flight bag in the cargo compartment.

[surreal1221]

So what I'm gathering from this is that it is essentially illegal to use a PDA with Anywheremap and AnywhereWX installed on it, attached to a GPS antenna?

www.anywheremap.com

The pilot's that try to say tools like the above are for their primary navigation need to be shot. It's a SA aid, bottom line.

[AirArney]

I fly single pilot 135 and was recently ramped by the Feds... Guy was EXTREMELY thorough. I had my 396 on the yoke. He thought the 396 was great, had read about it, and wanted to see how it worked. Showed him all the functions, XM radio and WX, he was impressed with the A/C specific weight and balance data that is storable.

He never once mentioned anything about unauthorized electronic devices.

Just my experience, we all know these Inspectors vary from place to place

ARN

[themctm]

OF COURSE! I love my Lowrance 600c. Does everything that one could need.
I fly single pilot 135 night freight (which I love) and controllers, while I'm filed /U(seless) give me direct without asking and then the onboard mountable GPS comes in great handiness. Lets all be realistic. I've seen KingAires, Lears, Citations with nothing more than a handheld and they go direct everywhere. If you can-do, if you have problems then use your VORS, which you should be using to back yourself up at all times anyways.