Why freight over regionals???

[KLB]

Originally Posted by John Herreshoff

I think what Kelvin is asking is whether it's like Airnet's SIC Program where THEY pay YOU

Exactly! I got all of my certificates and ratings up to MEI. I ain't paying anything else. I asked because it sounded a little suspicious to me.

Might I add that I'm only 285hrs from 135mins.

[mtsu_av8er]

Do you guys know if this SIC program is PFT or pay for hours. http://www.centralairsouthwest.com/sic_info.html

You're paying for it, without a doubt.

[mtsu_av8er]

Originally Posted by KLB

Might I add that I'm only 285hrs from 135mins.

Do it to it, Brotha!

[Adam2006]

Give back my threaddddddd. I'm very interested in flying freight, as I perfer the back side of the clock, and it appears to be beneficial as far as creating some hardcore flying skills...but that aside.....I'm most interested in where I will be after that.(my resume, and next job potential) Thanks again all, and keep em' coming.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by Adam2006

Give back my threaddddddd. I'm very interested in flying freight, as I perfer the back side of the clock, and it appears to be beneficial as far as creating some hardcore flying skills...but that aside.....I'm most interested in where I will be after that.(my resume, and next job potential) Thanks again all, and keep em' coming.

Sorry about that Adam

It is a toss up. If you can live in base for a regional I would suggest that route. You are going to develop the same skills and decision making as you will flying freight. However, as most have mentioned, there are a ton of people out there with part 121 jet/turboprop SIC time. If you goal is something like FedEx, UPS, (I don't mention UAL, Delta, etc because it is going to be a very long time before they even think of hiring, and even then there are going to be so many CRJ/ERJ/Dash8 captains out there, that those slots will fill quickly, IMHO) then go the Airnet, Ameriflight, etc route. You will get to that turbine PIC time fairly quick. The only problem is, as I see it, most of the bases for these types of companies seem to be in more expensive areas, relative to the pay you will be making. Where with regionals, at least you have the option of commuting from a more affordable area.

I would think the biggest things for you to consider would be QOL, and upgrade time. Pay is pretty much going to be even between regional FO and cargo piston Captain.

Hope this helps, sorry for the hijack(s)

[hank1292]

Here is my experience on the freight side. I stuck with instructing until I had 1800 TT and 1000 ME. From there I went to Ameristar. Hauling freight in Falcons and Lears. After 13 months I was offered upgrade to captain with 2 type ratings. I turned down the upgrade, finish my contract and am hired at Flexjet. I start class on the Lear 60 next thursday. This is where I wanted to end up.

Flying freight has some benifits and some downfalls.

Most of the guys that come to Ameristar come from piston freight gigs. There are some of us that came from instructing. A few from the regionals and a few others from other jet freight operators. The mins are high to get in the door because they are hiring folks that should upgrade in 18 months. They can't cut you loose as PIC in a Lear 24 with 2000TT. I need to say that upgrade is not for sure. It is based on ability as well as experience and senority. There are guys that have been in the right seat here for 4 years and others that were high time that upgrade in 6 months. You have to be able to walk the walk.

From Ameristar where do you go? That is the question I guess. Nobody wants to stay at an on demand freight job for any longer than they have to. In the past 18 months guys and gals have gone to;

Polar
Southwest
Gemini
Omni
Jet Blue
Continental
Flexjet
Flight Options
Citation Shares
Net Jets
and various others

That is not to bad considering the market.

No one I know would consider going to a regional from here. It would be a considered a step down and a cut in pay.

Freight is not for everyone though. The schedule sucks. We spend a lot of time on call and we fly at all hours. You generally know what days you are on and which you are off. Other than that it is sit around and wait for the pager. (like right now) There are very few nice overnights unless you count Detroit, Laredo or Gary, IN. but hey it pays the bills.

Oh yea. Shorts and tennis shoes are the uniform of choice. Got to love that.

[Red5xwingdriver]

When I eventually get my commercial and cfi multis (with instrument of course) plus multi-time, I would LUV to try freightdoggin'. Then again, I would have loved the experience of bringing a tomcat back to a carrier at night ! I wonder though, if going from instructing to a place like airnet is still considered a sideways move, considering the fact that multi-engine time is so hard to come by in some places (like here in the northeast).

[Stone Cold]

Going from CFI'ing to flying 135 is not a sideways move, according to anybody and everybody I've ever talked to.

[Dugie8]

Originally Posted by hank1292

Here is my experience on the freight side. I stuck with instructing until I had 1800 TT and 1000 ME. From there I went to Ameristar. Hauling freight in Falcons and Lears. After 13 months I was offered upgrade to captain with 2 type ratings. I turned down the upgrade, finish my contract and am hired at Flexjet. I start class on the Lear 60 next thursday. This is where I wanted to end up.

Flying freight has some benifits and some downfalls.

Most of the guys that come to Ameristar come from piston freight gigs. There are some of us that came from instructing. A few from the regionals and a few others from other jet freight operators. The mins are high to get in the door because they are hiring folks that should upgrade in 18 months. They can't cut you loose as PIC in a Lear 24 with 2000TT. I need to say that upgrade is not for sure. It is based on ability as well as experience and senority. There are guys that have been in the right seat here for 4 years and others that were high time that upgrade in 6 months. You have to be able to walk the walk.

From Ameristar where do you go? That is the question I guess. Nobody wants to stay at an on demand freight job for any longer than they have to. In the past 18 months guys and gals have gone to;

Polar
Southwest
Gemini
Omni
Jet Blue
Continental
Flexjet
Flight Options
Citation Shares
Net Jets
and various others

That is not to bad considering the market.

No one I know would consider going to a regional from here. It would be a considered a step down and a cut in pay.

Freight is not for everyone though. The schedule sucks. We spend a lot of time on call and we fly at all hours. You generally know what days you are on and which you are off. Other than that it is sit around and wait for the pager. (like right now) There are very few nice overnights unless you count Detroit, Laredo or Gary, IN. but hey it pays the bills.

Oh yea. Shorts and tennis shoes are the uniform of choice. Got to love that.

That right there is worth at least 15K a year lower pay, for me!

[Texasspilot]

You mean getting to a good company quick...and doing some real flying along they way isn't worth it? Or.......do you mean taking part in the decline of...ahh screw it.

woof.

[Adam2006]

I gotta give it up to you freight dogs, you are a very informative and helpful bunch. Thank you.

[jonnyb]

Originally Posted by txpilot

Where do I start...ahh never mind, I'll piss people off and write a book on it. We'll just say so I can look in the mirror. This is for me only, YMMV. And, no I will not be going to a regional after this...I will get out of flying first. We have had some people come here (Airnet) and then go to the mini majors but I've never understood that one.

Oh well, good luck.

I knew I liked you for a reason. Good man.

[wheelsup]

Originally Posted by Dugie8

That right there is worth at least 15K a year lower pay, for me!

Word...I hate wearing a tie.

If only I could get away with flip flops...

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by txpilot

See this thread: http://www.jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26319 and Alchemy's post on it to see why not to go to a regional. I feel bad for all the regional guys/gals. It's sad to see this industry go where it's going.

CaptChris, the SIC's in the regionals fly regularly, but SIC time is just not as valuable as it once was considering how many mini majors are furloughing, losing people to attrition, etc. There are a ton of CRJ/ERJ SIC's looking to get out of where they are.

Just my observations, don't take personally. Any regional guys want to chime in with why go to regionals over freight??? Equal opportunity, and all.

For every regional jet out there , someone is logging SIC and someone is logging PIC.

[Alchemy]

Honestly I would be wary of chasing an upgrade no matter where you go. Your path to the left seat of a turbine powered aircraft will probably have more to do with luck than planning.

I was hoping to upgrade at Expressjet within 3 years of being hired but it looks like that is not going to happen. In the meantime at least I can make about $40k/yr as a senior FO and have decent QOL, commuting from the city where I want to live and working the front side of the clock. My job right now in the regionals isn't the worst thing in the world, as long as I can avoid thinking about the future and the complete and utter lack of job security in this sector of aviation. The flying itself is still great, already in just doing it a year and a half I've seen some interesting things and some challenging situations. It's also nice not to have your integrity challenged every day at work because of questionable aircraft maintenance or dispatch practices. At least at my employer, every t is crossed and every i is dotted. Makes the job easy.

On the downside, the experience I'm getting right now is pretty worthless in the logbook. 1500 hours of RJ SIC time and counting.....looks like I'll be racking up at least another 1500 hours or so in that column before I change seats, be it due to an upgrade or a furlough.

There is absolutely no job security in the regionals right now, especially as a newhire. Something is going to budge within the next 5 years....massive consolidations w/ accompanying furloughs, 50 seat RJ's being parked, and with fuel approaching $100/barrel and so many airlines bleeding cash, the status quo will probably not be maintained. Hopefully better paying jobs will continue to open up at mainline/and or the LCC's so attrition can continue, but I'm not too optimistic about that either.


With all that said, if I do find myself on the recieiving end of a furlough notice, I will most likely pursue 135 freight rather than try another regional. At the time I was hired by Expressjet I was also trying to get a job at Airnet. I also have apps in at FlexJet and CitationShares. I have a good friend who flies caravans at night and he really enjoys that, I wouldn't mind doing that work either. I've enjoyed regional flying thus far but I have a feeling it's about to get a lot worse.

Honestly, if I were going to a regional right now, I'd probably look for a turboprop operator. The problem is, they all suck...at Gulfstream you pay for your job, at Colgan you have that annoying training contract which borders on PFT, Great Lakes pays poverty wages, Commutair isn't really hiring, and well....you get the point.

This career is not going to be easy unless you get extremely lucky or have some friends in high places. You will work hard only to be rewarded many times with paycuts and furloughs. That's the nature of this business, I think.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

For every regional jet out there , someone is logging SIC and someone is logging PIC.

Okay... Is this another Kingairism or whatever, or are you providing input to the discussion?

[Kingairer]

Many post keep comparing SIC RJ time to PIC baron (or similar)...However the SIC can be a temporary thing as people upgrade. So in a short time, perhaps, you could be logging PIC. That needs to be brought into the equation.

[Stone Cold]

So in a short time, perhaps, you could be logging PIC.

Or, in a very long time you could be logging PIC. I'm not saying Baron time is so much better than RJ SIC time...I actually consider them about the same...useless, except for adding to TT. Don't use you could upgrade very quickly for a mini major, though. How are the upgrades looking at Express Jet right now? They were the "regional to go to", according to some. American Eagle? Comair? It's all up in the air at each mini major as to how long upgrades are. It could be great for you, and it could be very painful to watch. Each MM could be good, depending on timing, and each one could be the worst decision you ever made.

Better make sure you're happy where you're at, as we've seen in the past.

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by jonnyb

I knew I liked you for a reason. Good man.

Just giving my point of view. Glad to hear there are others out there...

[Kingairer]

Originally Posted by txpilot

Or, in a very long time you could be logging PIC. I'm not saying Baron time is so much better than RJ SIC time...I actually consider them about the same...useless, except for adding to TT. Don't use you could upgrade very quickly for a mini major, though. How are the upgrades looking at Express Jet right now? They were the "regional to go to", according to some. American Eagle? Comair? It's all up in the air at each mini major as to how long upgrades are. It could be great for you, and it could be very painful to watch. Each MM could be good, depending on timing, and each one could be the worst decision you ever made.

Better make sure you're happy where you're at, as we've seen in the past.

Express Jet? I dont think theyve lost anything yet, infact, look for more paint swapping to continue. I would say industry wide, a 1 year upgrade is quick, 3 average, and 5 Long.

[Stone Cold]

Glad the Koolade tastes good! Yes, Express Jet is in the air, but I don't think the people on furlough from Mesaba, Comair, or the others out there would agree with your rosy picture of the Mini Majors.

[Kingairer]

Im not sure how im drinking Koolaide when im telling you the avg upgrade times, appox, at regionals out there.

[Stone Cold]

I'm just wondering if your "avg upgrade times, appox, at regionals out there" includes all the furloughees, Indy, and others out there, along with those who haven't upgraded in years...just curious. That's the Koolade I'm talking about. Yes, there's GLakes, who else upgrades in 1 year? Also, for those hired at 300-500 hours, etc., how quickly are they upgrading? Isn't the minimum upgrade time around 2500-3000TT? Just curious how you got your numbers...Scientific study, or pulling out your arse?

[E_Dawg]

Just an observation but txpilot, you almost sound defensive.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by Kingairer

Express Jet? I dont think theyve lost anything yet, infact, look for more paint swapping to continue. I would say industry wide, a 1 year upgrade is quick, 3 average, and 5 Long.

Newest Perm Bid just out... XJT Junior Capt going to Summer '04 hires.