pros vs. cons of the Swiss and/or RWL programs

[T56Maniac]

I'm trying to do some homework on the Swiss and the RWL programs as a flight instructor. What are the pros and cons? Sounds like better pay with lots of x-c time I seriously want to get out of the local kvrb area.

[Crockrocket94]

Are you instructing at FSA currently?


Cons are the contract id assume.

Pros are x-country and IFR.

[georgetg]

I don't know much about the SWISS training program but here's my advice:

As a Flight Instructor you will be exposed to all types of shady operators and questionable equipment. If you are working towards an airline career this is a huge risk.

Go with a company that has been in place for 10 years or more.
Too many of these companies get airline training contracts and fold within 2-3 years.

These three schools are the Gold standard:
ATCA (Lufthansa), IASCO (JAL) or IFTA (ANA)

They all fly Barons and Bonanzas.
They are clones of each other, down to the strange grammar in the manuals.

ATCA
IASCO
IFTA

Here's my impression of IFTA:

The training center belongs to All Nippon Airways (Japan) but they also provide training for EVA (Taiwan) on a contract basis.

This is a professional school, the training is hard, the money is good.
IFTA is one of the best aviation jobs in compensation and experience and is excellent preparation for an airline career.

They used to pay for the move (up to $2500) and put you up till training is done.

You will be working with senior 777 and 747 checkairman in teaching the new students.

You won't "build time quickly" but you will come out ahead financially "so you can afford your first regional" ;-)

The aircraft are maintained by a dedicated Beechcraft MX facility on site. You will not fly better maintained aircraft anywhere...even the airlines.

Flight benefits on a handful of airlines.
Oh and the cafeteria rawks, Sushi on Wednesdays.

Cheers
George

[bLizZuE]

Speaking on the Swiss program-

Pros: Intelligent, motivated, hard working students. Extremely rewarding flying, IE; cross country, lots of IFR experience, and long cross country trips(New Orleans, Pensacola, Key West). More pay. Don't work weekends normally, it is rare. I don't have to schedule myself. Everything is just better from the flying aspect. A very solid and FUN SOP and syllabus to teach.

Cons: You can list the contract I guess, but if you get into the program early(earliest is 200 dual given, 500 total) it's not a big deal. If you want ATP minimums, it's hard NOT to get them in the year. Paperwork. You don't make your own schedule(sometimes a pro) time off is harder to come by. Not as flexible as a regular 141 instructor(we do have 2 weeks minimum between classes, classes range from 6-8 weeks). Less multi flying than 141 instructors.

As a pilot, teaching in this program has been an invaluable experience. It has exposed me to situations I never would have encountered in the practice area.

When you first start with the program you do about 15 hours with a A330/340 FO who is what we call the TRS- training supervisor. These guys have anywhere from 5-10 thousand hours and loads of experiences and hints to share. I learned more in those 15 hours of flying than I did in the first 200 hours of flight instruction.

You are required to take a "check ride" with a representative of the SWISS FAA(FOCA). Very relaxed and really another opportunity to learn something new. They want to make sure you're safe. It's not another CFI check ride. This ride gives you a JAA member state authorization to instruct a JAA syllabus outside of the JAA state. Only valid at FSA for the swiss program.

Right now I've been with a crew of 3 students. That's it. I fly three a day, and get around 9-12 hours billable a day. Normally around 6-7 hours of logged flight time a day. Sometimes with smaller classes you will only have 2 students, but right now we are very scarce on instructors. So almost everyone is with 3 per day.

I have been an employee of FSA since 4/16/07, and an active instructor since 5/2/07. My original contract date was July something. It's now September. I plan on leaving in September.

1100TT, 473XC, 278ME

[T56Maniac]

Thanks blizzue for the post. The Swiss program sounds great....I'm ready to take my experience/training to the next level. How is the pay and are there any "benefits" by signing Swiss.....vs....RWL? Is there anything that you would recommend for me to study up on before going into the program?

Thanx for your help,

[bLizZuE]

Pay is good for two reasons, you get more, and you will bill more. Unlike 141 instruction where you have multiple students a day at all different times, you have all your students together as a crew normally. Which means your billable time pretty much runs from when you walk in the door, till you leave. Minus breaks and lunch and such.

Benefits, for sure. We don't have any frasca time. RWL spends 20 hours per student in the frasca....I think. I know they spend A LOT of time in there. We do all our time in the airplanes. Mainly Arrow/Seminole, sometimes Cadet/Arrow.

We do everything just a little differently, maneuvers and airspeeds are all just a little tweaked. IFR knowledge is a big component of our training. Just be prepared to drink from a fire hose All new checklists, all new procedures, all new callouts.

It's kind of like a bath of fire really...

[T56Maniac]

Sounds like something I need right now ( "bath-o-fire"), need something different. I'm getting tired of students who don't study and expect to obtain an endorsement for marginal PTS maneuvers.

Thanks blizzue for your inputs.

Anyone in the RWL program that could "chime" in would be greatly appreciated

[launchpad]

I instructed in the Swiss program for about 2 years when I was there. Everything Blizzue said is right on. From my experience, the Swiss and RWL instructors were all pretty happy because they had motivated students, a good schedule and lots of billable time.

One added benefit I found when I went to my current airline was the similarity. The Swiss "SOP" and everything they tell you to teach is designed for airline operations. All the flows, the profiles, etc. etc. are what you are going to be exposed to later in your career. I wouldn't say that you'll be a maverick in airline training, but the exposure will certainly help.

The Swiss program was extremely organized and regimented. The instructors are respected more, and are expected to do a little more work in terms of student evaluations and instructor meetings with the TRS and the chief pilot.

The students have a lot riding on their training in Florida, and are accordingly motivated. The students are also closely monitored, and weaknesses are found early, with everyone from the student to the chief pilot and TRS getting involved to either turn the student around, or send him home....much different than the 141 side of things.

When I was there, the RWL instructors had essentially the same experience with their students. I think you'll enjoy either program, but I'm biased, so I'd say head over to the Swiss side....you even get a funny looking tie to make you feel special

Slight hijack: Who's running the program these days and did they get rid of the Senecas???

[bLizZuE]

We fly the Seminoles now instead of the Senecas.

M Marks.

[launchpad]

cool...thanks

[T56Maniac]

Thanks guys...either program sounds great. I think that I can be more effective an instructor if I only have to concentrate on 2-3 students at a time....instead of 11 students in the 141 program. Feels like I'm being "ra$#%" The students are never happy because I can only get them on every other day and working 14hr days are getting old!

FSA needs to focus on getting more instructors before they sign new contracts. As of right now FSA is unable to "...meet or exceed the customers needs..."

Sorry, I think I "derailed" but its Friday......

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by T56Maniac

Sorry, I think I "derailed" but its Friday......

2 for 1 at the Patio (if it's still open)....then to the RiverSlime for shots.....then you weave and swerve your way home on the A-Line....ahhh the memories....

[Crockrocket94]

Patio Closed up

[soonerpilot06]

That sucks. I liked that place.

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Crockrocket94

Patio Closed up

that's a damned shame......are Bobbie's and Waldo's still open? I'm gonne need somewhere to water myself when I visit...

[Crockrocket94]

yeah both of those are still around, they have a few other places too.

City Tavern, Undertow, etc.

[Baronman]

The biggest leap in my aviation career as far skills/situational awareness/standardization etc was due to.......SWISS.

It was challenging; tight schedules, demanding students, demanding supervisors. The rewards will be you coming out a much sharper pilot, you'll log good time, you'll be paid for what you work and of course....I loved the air-conditioned Seneca!

I would highly suggest taking one of these jobs over the standard IP position. More work, more rewarding. Going to your next flying gig will seem easy after dealing with these guys.

Also you'll learn alot from the Swiss training captains that come over (yeah...technically they are FOs at Swiss). They have alot of insight and really relate flying light planes to larger equipment.

[T56Maniac]

Thanks for the post's guy's. Looks like I'm going Swiss....

[CAP_Flyer]

Sorry to ask a silly question, but what are the Swiss and FWL programs? I thought I had been keeping pretty on top of the FS program as I have every aspiration of going there after I get a couple of ratings up here, but this is the first I've seen of the 'Swiss' and the 'FWL' programs.

What are they?

[bLizZuE]

Swiss and RWL are contract programs we have here at the academy. They require some TT and dual given minimums higher than required for line instructing. I know Swiss is 500 TT and 200 dual, not sure about RWL.

The two programs are airline cadet programs basically. We train them sometimes from zero time to a certain point in preparation for their advanced training they'll do back in Europe.

[CAP_Flyer]

Ah! How cool! Sounds like a great thing to aspire to.

[West_Indian400]

Swiss and RWL are contract programs we have here at the academy. They require some TT and dual given minimums higher than required for line instructing. I know Swiss is 500 TT and 200 dual, not sure about RWL.

Oh, so you dont have the option of going into those programs straight out of standardization?

[bLizZuE]

As long as you meet the TT and dual requirements.