FSA vs ATP?

[bLizZuE]

Don't get me wrong, I completely recommend Flight Safety and the training they provide. However, my experience as an instructor with almost 1000 hours doesn't include anything with high performance or TAA or glass! So think about that type of experience, and how you can get it. Perhaps I'm just bitter lol.

[psosa272]

Well I start instrumet training on monday! I decided on the FBO out of North Jersey.

Thanks for the advice!

They seemed to really have a great program up there. No requirement (though it is an option) of giving them tens of thousands of dollars up front before you can start. You can break the rating down to one at a time and pay that way. Their fleet is all brand new and all glass. I never had the chance to sit in a cirrus before and I must say it was amazing! To top it off, I got a brief introduction to the twinstar and the g1000. Pretty cool airplane.

Maintinance is obviously a huge concern with them. They were flying to a nearby airport to replace a burned out bulb in one of their g1000 172's. It wasn't an airworthy item, and from what my experience was with the other school, didn't expect something like that to command any attention.

The problem was that this airport is about an hour and twenty minutes up the NJ turnpike. Its a drive. An instructor there offered a room in his house if I wanted to stay there every now and then. Also the president (as well as cfi) came out to talk for a bit. He was the one who decided to replace the entire fleet with new aircraft (which are always available....not overloaded with students and just the right amount of instructors). He asked how far I lived from the FBO where I got my private. He basically said that if I wanted to , I could an airplane home (weather permitting) and they would pay for the tie down. I could not believe this!

All in all, it was a great experience to sit down and plan the rest of my training with these guys. If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I will give you the info.

[rjordan85]

hello everyone,
I will be heading to AZ in the next couple of weeks to visit 3 different schools. 2 of which are ATP and FSA and the third is Regional Airline Academy. Anyone know anything about RAA? As of now i am leaning towards FSA bc of the fact they guarantee you a job as an instructor (with pretty good pay) please anyone have any opinions of which of these three schools you think would be best? Thanks in advance

[Ducky]

FSA is in AZ also?

[Fly Boi]

Where did you CFI?

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by Ducky

FSA is in AZ also?

Ah, no.

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by rjordan85

hello everyone,
I will be heading to AZ in the next couple of weeks to visit 3 different schools. 2 of which are ATP and FSA and the third is Regional Airline Academy. Anyone know anything about RAA? As of now i am leaning towards FSA bc of the fact they guarantee you a job as an instructor (with pretty good pay) please anyone have any opinions of which of these three schools you think would be best? Thanks in advance

If you're really going to AZ to visit, and you're not visiting pan-am you're making a mistake. If I were looking for a CFI job I wouldn't look any further than there.

[eclipse]

yeah, I would do the FBO route to if I had the same deal you have with the 100 multi and 250 total. Sounds great, especially with the other experience you have. ATP was great for me, but it isnt for everyone- and i dont know anyone who thinks it is. Go for it.

[SIUav8er]

Originally Posted by psosa272

Wow, what a funny time for this topic to be posted. I will try to be unbiased at this point but I think it will be hard.

I started the nation wide program in the fall of 2006 at my local fbo. I was to enroll in the career pilot program with ATP as soon as I was finished. But as we all know, weather never goes our way. Betwen instructors leaving and changing as they got hired into airlines, limited aircraft availibility, and other random events, it took me almost exactly a year to get my PPL.

ATP decied that because of the raise in tuition and the fact that it took me so long to finish that rating and my start date being switched several times, I owed them an additional ten thousand dollars. I bit the bullet and took out another loan.

Thats odd, i thought they guaranteed you a price once you start training?

Originally Posted by psosa272

I then proceeded to RIC for my 20 hr timebuild and intro to instruments in one of their 172's. Out of the 5 days I was there (after I paid airfare to fly there), I got a total of 2.4 flight hours. No instructors were available to fly with me, and this had been scheduled 2 weeks in advance! Frustrating to say the least. So an employee of ATP said it was no big deal (not the case in my opinion for the money I was spending), and that I could continue on without the hours. Not acceptable at all!

Yeah, that does suck. What they might do so you meet the time requirements is give you more seminole XC time. Ive seen that happen many times. its actually a better deal for you!

Originally Posted by psosa272

I came back to Trenton where I would do the remainder of my training. I started November 26th with my multi engine training and here we are on Feb. 9th and I still don't have the rating. I made myself available 5 days a week for this program when all they ask for is 8 days a month!

yet another reason not to do the 10 month program.. sory to hear about the delays, but welcome to aviation.

Originally Posted by psosa272

I put in several calls to ATP dispatch, some met with a rude attitude on the other end, and some calls never returned. I also called school president Koziarski and never recieved calls back. I was only told that we could not get a newer or better functioning airplane at Trenton. As a student who has a total debt of over 63 thousand dollars, I should think they would do their best to accomodate me. They didn't even want to help.

Well, some of the seminoles arent pretty, and they get used very hard. MX issues are bound to come up, Im sure the instructor wouldnt have been flying it if it wasnt safe or legal though!

Originally Posted by psosa272

Don't believe their advertising hype about new and pristine aircraft fleet because it is false, at least in my experience over the past year. As a side note, on the timebuild in Richmond, we had to turn around in flight because the left fuel pump failed. Great maintinence.

You timebuild in a Cessna 172. Unless it was an S/SP model (fuel injected) THERE IS NO FUEL PUMP! Even on the fuel injected models, you run the boost pump on engine start...should not have caused you to "turn around and land"

[psosa272]

Originally Posted by SIUav8er

Thats odd, i thought they guaranteed you a price once you start training?



Yeah, that does suck. What they might do so you meet the time requirements is give you more seminole XC time. Ive seen that happen many times. its actually a better deal for you!

yet another reason not to do the 10 month program.. sory to hear about the delays, but welcome to aviation.


Well, some of the seminoles arent pretty, and they get used very hard. MX issues are bound to come up, Im sure the instructor wouldnt have been flying it if it wasnt safe or legal though!




You timebuild in a Cessna 172. Unless it was an S/SP model (fuel injected) THERE IS NO FUEL PUMP! Even on the fuel injected models, you run the boost pump on engine start...should not have caused you to "turn around and land"

1. Its funny I thought they guaranteed a price too, until I was notified that I would need to take out an additional loan as the tuition was increased. Its beyond me...

2. I would have been glad to take the extra seminole time if offered but the point is, I wasted a week from work as well as a lot of money to only come away with 2.4 hrs due to poor planning on their part.

3. I was never advised against doing the 10 month program. As a student, regardless of "how it works" I am paying the same tuition as everyone else and I expect the same treatment ....period. Its not an airline where I am being paid or have to deal with delays because it is my job. Its a program that is going to put me in debt for a long time to come. I expect a better program.

4. The instructor was the one that decided to either come down early or to not fly at all. That is when we could get the plane off the ground. As I explained there were times when we couldn't fly at all. Trust me, I understand maintinence issues. I do. Its just that there were more times grounded than not, as well as the rude response I got when I inquired very politely about it. Not the reaction I expect for the tuition I was paying.

5. Correction...No fuel pump, and it was not an SP model. Sorry for the confusion. However I must say that the fuel simply did not feed from the left tank, and it was the INSTRUCTOR'S call to turn around and come home. He seemed very nervous about the situation, which in turn did not inspire confidence in me.

Just thought I would clear this up.

[psosa272]

Also I have not put any updates on here for those who were curious how the FBO route went.

I must say I continue to be impressed every day that I am there. In my first week, I flew more than I did in 3 mos with ATP ( and it had nothing to do with the weather).

The instruction is done by people who have chosen this as their career. My instructor worked for Eagle for a couple of years but had a family. He then decided to make instructing his full time job and you can definitly see the difference between him, and someone who is trying to do it and get the hell out. That pretty much seems to be everyone's story at this place.

The aircraft at this location are in pristine condition. The oldest they have is a 79 piper arrow that has been refurbished with new interior, engine, and Garmin 530 with traffic.

I am currently doing my training in an SR-20. We do a couple hrs of ground followed by a few in the air pretty much every day, as they have given me 4-5 days a week with this instructor.

At this rate, they are giving me a timeline of about 5 mos to get up to my cfi's. I am very happy with that.

The "FBO Route" may not be for everyone but it definitly fits for me.