Is FSA for me...

[Knight909]

Hi.
I’ve read the various posts on this forum, and some on the other forums as well…all that the day allowed me! Occurs that getting some insight or feedback from the folks here might just be of great help….so here goes.
Am a prospective international student, from India, with a South African PPL and TTL time in the high 90’s…all flying done in SA with a little over half the TTL as PIC. The situation in my country regards opportunities for pilots is not…let’s just say, not normal! Having had a background in aviation (AME in a previous life…, before the events in the US changed all our lives forever!), I realize that 200hrs of flying in circles in a piston engined wonder, are hardly sufficient to allow one the ability to handle a large twin engined jet, albeit from the right hand side! In my AME days, had the opportunity to work on some wide bodies here (A300/310, B747-200 to 400), and have sat gazing at the maze of ‘equipment’ in the cockpit on many a day. Suffice to say, I’ve seen enough to know that ( strictly speaking for myself ), I’d hardly be able to sit upright, in the cockpit of an RJ (let alone anything bigger), with a spanking new 200hrs CPL/IF ticket, somewhere close by…
Having arrived to that conclusion, am very keen to take on instructing and more than building time, actually learn the skill of flying. I think a greater (read greatest) part of your learning comes from teaching,…what you think you’ve learnt!
Great conclusion! Now here’s the problem…the PIC requirement in my country for an Instructor’s rating, is a good 100hrs over the PIC requirement to man the RHS of …say a very large wide bodied A/c!! Funny eh…you bet!
NOW what do I do??!!
Happened to chance upon JC…and FSA. The idea of being able to instruct and put to use what you’ve learnt straight off, sounds very appealing. I caught this bug when I helped a couple of PPL colleagues in SA, walking circuits. The time building aspect of instructing is there as a motivation, no doubt, but just being able to fly (and not have to pay for it!) and teach others to fly too, is why I thought I’d ask around here a bit…
I’ve researched enough to know that FSA does provide international students with the opportunity to instruct after completion of the CFI ratings, albeit just for 1 year (based on a visa requirement). Also, read somewhere that to enroll for such a program you should not have anything more than a PPL and that too not over 100hrs. I fit the bill on that count, but just wondering about 2 things:

• How much (a rough estimate) lesser will it really cost me than the 0-CFI/CFII/MEI course with my current flying experience (97 TTL; 49 PIC ; 48 Dual incldng 10hrs IF)? The cost is a concern..it always is when it’s your own…!
• How much of a realistic opportunity do I have of being able to instruct after spending all that dough, considering (A) I’m an international student, though with the permit/visa to be able to work after completion of training (B) I’ve already gotten almost half the hours towards the CPL, OUTSIDE of FSA ..or even the USA for that matter…

There’s that something back there that says, “just get your ticket, and get that coveted right seat! Haven’t you been burnt once already with the AME thing getting nowhere!” Now I know there’s a little devil in all of us, but sometimes it just confuses the hell out of you… Which one is it!!
I do hope I’ll be able to get some feedback from you folks here…but I’ve got to mention, having read the posts all day today, I’ve already learnt quite a bit. Thank you already.

Cheers…

[launchpad]

If you have a PPL, I would use that to convert to an FAA PPL. That will save you approximately 10,000$ from the cost of the entire course. Your chances of instructing are very good. There seems to be a shortage of instructors there right now. As long as you are a good pilot with decent teaching skills (which you will learn in your CFI training), then you should be fine. When I instructed at FSA, there were 4 foreign students who were working there under a student visa.

My suggestion would be to call them and explain your situation. They'll probably connect you to the director of training. He has quite a bit of experience with your situation and can explain exactly what you need to do to finish your training and become an instructor there...
edit:...with your experience, the conversion of the PPL should be a paperwork exercise. However, you may need to take a few flights and finish some cross country or night flying time before you can hold an unrestricted FAA PPL...

good luck

[SuperStarFlyer]

I agree with launchpad, the best thing to do is call the school and they can give you the information you need. 1.800.800.1411
Best of luck!

[Knight909]

Thanks for your replies.
I've completed a contact form on their website. Just looking forward to hearing from them.
Have read somewhere here that they do allow you to go for the IF on the SE rather than the seminole...is it, however,possible to take out the twin completely from the course right upro CFI? Just wondering if it been done before...
Basically, i do not plan on going towards the twins at all...atleast until I've gotten suitable number of hours (couple hundred?) instructing with the CFI. Dunno if it's a possibility...
Am I asking for too much?
Appreciate it...

[bLizZuE]

You could do it, but they will make you do it part 61 as far as I know.

[soonerpilot06]

I don't see why it wouldn't be a problem. The CIME course is FSA's baby and they promote it. I just completed my CFI at FSA and am currently working on CFII. I did my other ratings elsewhere where I completed private, instrument, and commercial in a single engine plane. Afterwards, I got my commercial multi. For me it is easier and cheaper to get mult after commercial single, however, I don't have as much multi experience as some of these students here. By the time I took my multi checkride, I was just getting comfortable with the plane.

Here is a better look at how my training was organized.

Private ASEL part 61
Time building part 141
Instrument Airplane part 141
Commercial ASEL part 141
Commercial AMEL part 141
CFI ASEL part 141 (At FlightSafety)

Here is how FSA organizes their training. All part 141.

Private ASEL
Time build
Private AMEL
Instrument Airplane
Commercial AMEL
Commercial ASEL (optional)
CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP (optional)

Basically FSA throws in that private multi so you can log the time while working on instrument in the seminole.

I finished my program with only 10 hours of multi. FSA students finish with 55. In my opinion, that extra 45 hours of multi doesn't help you unless you 1) Have money to rent multi-engine airplanes and plan to build time that way or 2) Are planning on enrolling in the AATP program. I believe the easiest way to build multi time is through MEI.

My .02

[Knight909]

FSA students finish with 55. In my opinion, that extra 45 hours of multi doesn't help you unless you 1) Have money to rent multi-engine airplanes and plan to build time that way or 2) Are planning on enrolling in the AATP program. I believe the easiest way to build multi time is through MEI.

My thought exactly Soonerpilot06. As mentioned in my earlier post,I would rather get my twin rating even after doing my CFI on SEL and maybe a couple hundred instructing on SEL.I wonder if that much flexibility will be allowed.
As you did i would rather get my CommSEL at an FBO probably, but it's a different deal for int'l students regards getting approp visas and instructing(or, in other words working after you complete training) which is only possible with a Ji visa .So it doesn't really work out that way.

I noticed in your training you went thru Private SEL with a part61, followed by timebuilding,IF and Com SEL with a part141...is that doable at FSA..?

You could do it, but they will make you do it part 61 as far as I know.

bLizZuE,your inputs on that would be much appreciated too.

Thanks again.

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Knight909

Thanks for your replies.
I've completed a contact form on their website. Just looking forward to hearing from them.
Have read somewhere here that they do allow you to go for the IF on the SE rather than the seminole...is it, however,possible to take out the twin completely from the course right upro CFI? Just wondering if it been done before...
Basically, i do not plan on going towards the twins at all...atleast until I've gotten suitable number of hours (couple hundred?) instructing with the CFI. Dunno if it's a possibility...
Am I asking for too much?
Appreciate it...

Yes, they do have what's called a CISE part 141 program that goes through the same steps, but you just work in the warriors and arrows instead of the seminole. As far as I know, you should still be able to instruct there on a student visa if you're going to be leaving after a year, without getting the multi-engine rating.

I had a student from africa that did just that. He did the entire CISE program and got all his single engine ratings. He then went back and flew caravans for his father's company.

If you plan on going back to south africa and don't expect to fly multi engine airplanes, then the single engine program is perfect for you. Make sure you ask about it when you talk to them because 99% of students there are doing the CIME multi engine program.

After you finish the commercial program, you can do your CFI and CFII just as you would after the other program. If you do need to get your multi engine rating, I believe they have a 10 hour course which takes about 2 weeks and adds on the multi-engine rating to your commercial certificate.

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Knight909

I noticed in your training you went thru Private SEL with a part61, followed by timebuilding,IF and Com SEL with a part141...is that doable at FSA..?
bLizZuE,your inputs on that would be much appreciated too.

Thanks again.

If you are able to convert your south african license to an unrestricted FAA license, you'll be following essentially the same path. You'll do some time building in the single engine, followed by your instrument rating. After that you'll work on your commercial certificate which includes more time building in the program. All of that will be accomplished under a part 141 program. You can consider your existing experience part 61.

[soonerpilot06]

Originally Posted by Knight909

I noticed in your training you went thru Private SEL with a part61, followed by timebuilding,IF and Com SEL with a part141...is that doable at FSA..?

I would highly recommend doing as much as you can part 141. I was a teenager when I got my private from a local FBO. Because of high school, it took me over a year and 80 hours to get my private. Also, I busted the checkride the first time and got a pink slip (You don't get pink slips if you go part 141.). After HS I went to a University that offered a bachelors degree and the ratings part 141.

I honestly think FlightSafety will acommodate any student within reason. It's not just a flight school with a cookie cutter training program.

[intern_mike]

My roommate's instructor is from Africa. Many of the students here are international. This place will set you up for success from day one. You get what you pay for, excellent training in a professional atmosphere.

[Knight909]

Huge thanks guys.
Helps put things in perspective far greater than when i started out.
Good to hear that FSA is open to a students needs rather than being a rigid/structured albeit professional outfit.

Originally Posted by launchpad

You'll do some time building in the single engine, followed by your instrument rating. After that you'll work on your commercial certificate which includes more time building in the program. All of that will be accomplished under a part 141 program. You can consider your existing experience part 61.

Yep, the 141 would be the way to go hereon....and CISE for that matter.
I think that I'd me more comfortable, instructing with a CFI CFII on SEL, prior to getting twin privileges and maybe then progressing to MEI. It's a kind of "graduating-to-the-next-step" thing....
So, if I'm correct, I should ask them for the CISE part 141 program.

Super!!
Getting the gist of what i want to do in less than 72hrs...is not what i thought I'd be able to achieve when i first posted....
Much appreciated.
Cheers...

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Knight909

Huge thanks guys.
Helps put things in perspective far greater than when i started out.
Good to hear that FSA is open to a students needs rather than being a rigid/structured albeit professional outfit.
Yep, the 141 would be the way to go hereon....and CISE for that matter.
I think that I'd me more comfortable, instructing with a CFI CFII on SEL, prior to getting twin privileges and maybe then progressing to MEI. It's a kind of "graduating-to-the-next-step" thing....
So, if I'm correct, I should ask them for the CISE part 141 program.

Super!!
Getting the gist of what i want to do in less than 72hrs...is not what i thought I'd be able to achieve when i first posted....
Much appreciated.
Cheers...

Yes, ask for the CISE part 141 program...they'll be able to give you the details. I would also ask what the requirements to apply for an instructor job there is. They may need you to have the multi engine ratings and MEI to work there........definitely find out before you commit yourself. Changing from one syllabus to another midstream is quite difficult and may end up costing you more money and time.

[747Heavy]

I'm from the UK, came to FSA last year with a JAA PPL, did FAA CPL/IR/ME in 7 months and now have nearly converted it all into a JAA fATPL.
No regrets whatsoever, FSA is a great school (probably the best in the world) and no matter what people say the FAA licence system is excellent, much more practical than the European and other licences around the world.
Plus I saved money by doing it this way round, and you come out with two licences!

[Crockrocket94]

Nice!

Its looking like it will be around 8 months to get from PPL, ME, INST, COMM M, COMM S. Then another 2-3 for CFIA. If you wanted a time guage, and I wasnt flying everyday, took lots of breaks like Thanksgiving, Christmas, Random trips to the North. It can be done in under 10 months for everything.

[Knight909]

Seems about 6-8months to CFI SEL starting from PPL, should be a reasonable timeframe then...
Still waiting to get a course outline from the school...

No regrets whatsoever, FSA is a great school (probably the best in the world) and no matter what people say the FAA licence system is excellent, much more practical than the European and other licences around the world.
Plus I saved money by doing it this way round, and you come out with two licences!

I agree the JAA system is a bit complicated, what with their fATPL system, and a timeframe to complete the hours in, and then separate IR requirements and check rides and the works!!Ours is no better but then i guess we're stuck to it...

cheers...

[747Heavy]

Knight 909, when you have to do 6 months of anal groundschool, followed by 14...yes 14 multichoice exams before you can start your IR and CPL, then I would rather go through the whole FAA system twice over!

[ananoman]

Originally Posted by Knight909

Have read somewhere here that they do allow you to go for the IF on the SE rather than the seminole...is it, however,possible to take out the twin completely from the course right upro CFI? Just wondering if it been done before...
Basically, i do not plan on going towards the twins at all...atleast until I've gotten suitable number of hours (couple hundred?) instructing with the CFI. Dunno if it's a possibility...
Am I asking for too much?
Appreciate it...

I would not recommend this.

It is possible to do your instrument training in a single and go on and get your commercial single engine rating first (at FSA, you usually do instrument in the twin and get the commercial multi first). If you do this, you will save money and it may make sense, but I would still get the commercial multi-engine rating. You will be much more limited, both in your knowledge and in your instructing opportunities at FSA if you tried to avoid the twin.

The way their program is set up, about half the dual is in the twin, so if you are a single-engine only instructor, you will be doing endless pre-privates and babysitting students in the time building phase. You will be doing very little instrument instruction, which is what you really need. Being competent flying on instruments, and being able to 'work the system' is what separates the 200hr right seat warmer from a professional pilot.

The way they usually do things is to hire instructors with their CFI and CFII, then give them pre-private students. You can also get students who are in their cross country and time building phase. For the cross country/time building phase, you get to do a few cross countries to make sure they are competent, and teach them commercial maneuvers.

After you get anywhere from 25-100 hours of dual given (this varies depending on how your students are doing and how desperate they are for multi-instructors), you get your MEI and start instructing in the twin as well. Besides getting multi-time, it is nice to be able to keep the same students you started with and take them all the way through the program. You also get a lot more instrument experience and cross country time in the twin, as almost no one does any instrument training in the single engine airplanes, except for some foreign contracts.