Considering FSA

[Spbeyond]

Hey all.
I am concidering going to FSA. Here is what is up, I am currently at Utah State University its a great school but the "traditional" university 4 year thing is just not working for me. I think if I say here I will either go crazy or get kicked out because of my ever lowering GPA. Its just not me. I was looking at flight schools and I keep coming back to FSA. I hear they are the most expensive but give the best education. I really think that is what I want. Also I know that you can do online classes to get your degree. This is all very appealing.

My questions.

How much debt does the adverage FSA student have before he leaves?

Can you do the online courses after or do you have to do them at the same time you are flight training?

What is quality of life like in Vero Beach? I have traveled all over the world but never to Florida and I have never lived anywhere but Utah. So I think that will be a "growing Experience" in itself.

[DE727UPS]

"I hear they are the most expensive but give the best education"

I would agree with the former, the latter is debatable. If you want/need a place heavy on ground schools and structure, then I'd agree that FSA is strong in that catagory. Is it worth the money or even necessary for success? I certainly don't think so but you can do a search for more, lest this turn into a flamefest with our resident FSA proponents. If you get a CFI job there, you'll be well prepared to move on in your career.

In any case, don't be sucked in by the marketing or the website, go visit the place before you commit.

I would think, with the heavy burden of FSA ground courses, you'd not have time to do the online degree.

[Spbeyond]

What flight school would you reccommend?

[DE727UPS]

It depends on where you want to live. Many local schools can get the job done for less than FSA and you'll end up in the same place. Some of the academy type schools I like because I know people have been successful with them are:

Mazzei www.flymfs.com
Skymates www.skymates.com
White Air www.flywhiteair.com

ATP has locations all over the country. I don't recommend the 90 day program as I think it's packs too much into a short time.

All that said, I'd try to stick with a local school for the first part of your training and then look to one of the larger ones for multi and CFI, as smaller schools don't usually do as well with those.

Where are you from?

[Spbeyond]

I live in Logan, Utah. It is pretty rediculous here to try and get flight training. The local FBO currently has one CFI and he is getting older and might need to retire. I went up with him once and half the flight he was just moaning and telling me about his prostate. (not kidding)

[DE727UPS]

Yeah, you need a bigger place than that. I'm not too familiar with the area. Maybe somebody else will chime in. Maybe I should start a flight school...

[Spbeyond]

I am definatly going to visit FSA or any other school before I make a commitment. I didn't want to mention this for fear of being called spoiled and people hating me or something but 3/4 of the cost will be payed for. That probably changes my options a bit. Thanks

[DE727UPS]

Naw dude, you're just lucky. More power to ya.

I'm sorry this site leaves you worried about such things...

[USMCmech]

I went to FSA for everything after my Private Pilot certificate. I have no regrets about the school or my training there.

However, You still have to make the effort to study. Otherwise, it won't matter how good the school is.

[Spbeyond]

I have no problems with working hard on something I care about. I have never scored below a A- in any of my Physics of flight, Ground school, Aviation related classes before.

[badco99]

I did all of my training at FSA and felt I got what I paid for. Average debt for PPL through your Comm ME is probably around $50,000. Figure another $10-15k to get your single engine add and CFI.

I know FSA has an agreement with Embry Riddle for online courses, don't know much about it though. As long as you manage your time I don't think you'd have too much trouble doing online courses and ground school. Don't forget ground school only lasts a couple weeks, and you can let your instructor know when you can and can't fly. Something to think about though, when I was in college I was told, "you're here to get out of here." I think some people forget that and training that should take 8-10 months starts to take over a year or more. I couldn't believe it when I heard instructors say their students didn't want to fly on a beautiful day perfect for it. Point is remember why you are there.

Anyway, UPS is right go and visit a few schools before you make a decision. Don't get sucked in, and when they mention "Direct Track" say "NOT INTERESTED."

And FYI for UPS, still nothing from ASA. Think they called a few times but they didn't leave a message. I read that they aren't planning any classes until early '07. Right now I'm still waiting for my background check to get updated so I can get back to the PD in VA, but otherwise I'm good to go. The way things are going I should register for NetworkJC since I may still be here by the end of the month.

[Spbeyond]

50K with housing and living costs? Not as bad as I was thinking if thats the case. I will definatly go visit before I buy. Flying across the contry emptys your wallet but I guess its worth it to be sure when you are talking about where you are going to spenk 50k

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by Spbeyond

Hey all.
I am concidering going to FSA. Here is what is up, I am currently at Utah State University its a great school but the "traditional" university 4 year thing is just not working for me. I think if I say here I will either go crazy or get kicked out because of my ever lowering GPA. Its just not me. I was looking at flight schools and I keep coming back to FSA. I hear they are the most expensive but give the best education. I really think that is what I want. Also I know that you can do online classes to get your degree. This is all very appealing.

My questions.

How much debt does the adverage FSA student have before he leaves?

Can you do the online courses after or do you have to do them at the same time you are flight training?

What is quality of life like in Vero Beach? I have traveled all over the world but never to Florida and I have never lived anywhere but Utah. So I think that will be a "growing Experience" in itself.

First things first..... Shop schools for quality of training, not price. I know guys that spent more than I did at FBO schools and recieved shotty training. Saving $5,000 at a mom and pop FBO may not save your life...

The amount you spend or save depends on how much you study and how prepared you are for each lesson.

Yes, you can do Riddle courses online or at the academy. I would recommend you complete the program first and then take classes while instructing.

Vero Beach is what you make of it. I myself hung out on the island as much as possible. The town on the mainland kind of bites. The island is where the wealthy live and it is maintained accordingly (grounds, parks, beach, restaurants etc.).

Call down and talk with Jackie in the marketing department. I believe they will help out financially with respect to your visit (airline, food, hotel)..1-800-800-1411

If you tour the school, it will sell itsself. The tour is informative but not pushy. They will tell you to tour at least 3 schools.

PM me with any questions...

ILS

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

It depends on where you want to live. Many local schools can get the job done for less than FSA and you'll end up in the same place.

Maybe......

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Mazzei www.flymfs.com
Skymates www.skymates.com
White Air www.flywhiteair.com

Oh boy...

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

ATP has locations all over the country. I don't recommend the 90 day program as I think it's packs too much into a short time.

Not a bad school... Correct about the 90 day program...

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

All that said, I'd try to stick with a local school for the first part of your training and then look to one of the larger ones for multi and CFI, as smaller schools don't usually do as well with those.

If you do, I wouldn't suggest going to FSA after an FBO school. you will struggle and in all reality, the instructor that gets you will be very frustrated trying to get you up to speed at the academy. FSA's program starts preparing you for their instructor program from your first flight as a pre-private. FSA's instructor program is one of the toughest and best...

ILS

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

I would think, with the heavy burden of FSA ground courses, you'd not have time to do the online degree.

The ground schools at FSA are approx. two to three weeks for each rating. they are some of the best ground schools I have seen and attended. I would suggest NOT flying while in ground school. Study your tail off. 80% of flying is in those books, the other 20% is on the stick.

The ground schools definatley are not a burden. They are very thorough and in depth. Now how can that be a burden?

C'mon Yoda....

ILS

[mpflies2]

Originally Posted by CLR4ILS

If you do, I wouldn't suggest going to FSA after an FBO school. you will struggle and in all reality, the instructor that gets you will be very frustrated trying to get you up to speed at the academy. FSA's program starts preparing you for thier instructor program from your first flight as a pre-private. FSA's instructor program is one of the toughest and the best...

ILS

Well.....yes and no, I went to FSA for CFI alone. I agree that it will cost you a good bit of extra money getting up to speed, howeevvverrr....though it did cost me extra money, I'm glad I went the route I did (FBO--->Aviation College--->FSA) I think I gained good experience from all aspects. What I will say however is that FSA is a great program, especially the CFI. Though I didn't do the zero to hero prog. with FSA, I wouldn't recommend against it if you have the money to spend on it.

You will struggle a bit at first, but it is doable, and I gained alot from my experience..........on the other hand my CFI cost me almost 14K with the catching up.

Miss those guys down there still at FSA, had some good times.

Hope this helps

MCPayne

[DE727UPS]

"80% of flying is in those books, the other 20% is on the stick"

You got that backwords, it's the other way around. Not surprised you see it that way, though. Is that what they teach at FSA?

[Spbeyond]

Call me spoiled but I dont care if it costs a little more if I get a better experience and I am a better pilot. Can anyone recommend what books they use so I can get familiar with them now so I am ahead of the curve? Thanks

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by Spbeyond

Call me spoiled but I dont care if it costs a little more if I get a better experience and I am a better pilot. Can anyone recommend what books they use so I can get familiar with them now so I am ahead of the curve? Thanks

Go to your local pilot store and take a look at any training books put out by the FAA. I think they also use the Jepessen training books at FSA......

I would say if you have the money and the desire, go there. It's a thorough and supportive environment.

There are arguments from all sides about becoming a better pilot. I would say that you won't necessarily become a better pilot from one route or another. The training environment at FSA is definitely intense. They aim to make you a professional and competent pilot, which is a goal that any good flight school should have. You will definitely experience more at FSA than any other flight school (i.e. aerobatic training, disorientation training, and ground schools).

What I would recommend is that you get your college degree first. I'm not saying you won't be able to get it online later, but I have seen many people struggle to get motivated to earn their degree after they have started their "career" training. Do some of your flying while you are in college, and then when the time comes, finish off the rest of your ratings at the flight school of your choice.


You might want to call them and ask about their connection with Riddle. As far as I know, there wasn't too much that could be counted towards your degree aside from your flight experience and the CRM courses.....

good luck

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"80% of flying is in those books, the other 20% is on the stick"

You got that backwords, it's the other way around. Not surprised you see it that way, though. Is that what they teach at FSA?

No, I do not have it backwArds.... Were not talking about that wonderful real world flying experience you speak of Yoda. Were talking about the training environment from zero time to job, and yes that is what they teach at schools like FSA and Riddle. These schools teach it the right way, the first time. Maybe that is why our pass rates and turn out of a safe proficient pilot are much higher than your FBO's....

It is so entertaining to watch you reply and actually say...... "is that what they teach you down at FSA?". Like your little FBO "Mazzie" can even compare to schools like FSA, Riddle, and UND with respect to quality of training.

So, what you are saying Yoda is that a student should study 20% of the time and and fly around not knowing what he is doing the other 80% of the time? Is that what they teach you at those fancy FBO's?

You have to learn it on the ground before you can apply it in the air........

Man, I love reading your posts in this forum....

ILS

[DE727UPS]

What I took from your statement is that stick and rudder skills are 20% of what makes a good pilot and book learnin' is 80%. I disagree but I'm not surprised that someone who supports direct track thinks that way. Direct track is all about ground schools and sims with minimal real life experience and background.

You'll forget most of what you learn in ground school as you don't use it everyday. That's the same for a PPL or a 767 Capt. I've seen both. The important part you retain is the part you use in the air, the stuff you use everyday, the important stuff. The things you learn in flight training you don't forget cause you use it all the time. Some of that's in ground school and some of it isn't. The important thing is to know where, when, and which book to look at, when something pops up.

Anyone who discouts stick and rudder over book learnin', at an 80/20 ratio, simply has it backwards.

By the way, I did one rating at Riddle and the rest at an FBO's. I'll admit that the Riddle program was marginally higher quality. What's important to note is the benefit of the marginally higher quality didn't come close to making up for the additional cost. When I recommend a flight school, I look at a balance between cost and quality. FSA, while it might be marginally better quality than some FBO's, has prohibitively higher costs. Trust me, even UPS looks at the cost/quality ratio in training.

The guy who started this thread said he was only having to pay 25% of the cost himself and I said more power to ya if you wanna go to FSA.

ILS, you can knock the other schools until your blue in the face but it doesn't help your credibility. I'd like to see you take this argument outside the FSA fourm. Now THAT would be fun to watch. Nobody comes here but FSA guys and people asking about FSA.

By the way. I'm going to start a timebuilding program with my new Geronimo. It's got an IFR approach approved GPS and an autopilot with altitude hold. Do the FSA twins have that? I'm a B757/767 Capt for a major airline, CFI since 1980, and have over 10,000 hours. Do FSA CFI's have that? For what I'll be doing, I think I can do better than FSA in a lot of ways. And there won't be any of this two guys logging PIC at the same time. Does FSA do that?

[bLizZuE]

If I had to do my training all over again, I would likely go somewhere else.

[DE727UPS]

Why? I think you've said it before but for the sake of Spbeyond. Lord knows I have to keep saying things over and over...

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

What I took from your statement is that stick and rudder skills are 20% of what makes a good pilot and book learnin' is 80%. I disagree but I'm not surprised that someone who supports direct track thinks that way. Direct track is all about ground schools and sims with minimal real life experience and background.

The foundation is key when starting out and that comes mostly from the books until you reach MEI....

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

You'll forget most of what you learn in ground school as you don't use it everyday. That's the same for a PPL or a 767 Capt. I've seen both. The important part you retain is the part you use in the air, the stuff you use everyday, the important stuff. The things you learn in flight training you don't forget cause you use it all the time. Some of that's in ground school and some of it isn't. The important thing is to know where, when, and which book to look at, when something pops up.

I will agree, ONCE you have gotten past your instructor ratings.

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Anyone who discouts stick and rudder over book learnin', at an 80/20 ratio, simply has it backwards.

Disagree.. but at least you spelled backwards correctly this time... Just about anyone can fly a plane. Knowing what to do after you are airborn comes from your studies (books on systems, approach plates, instrument procedures etc. etc. etc...).

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

By the way, I did one rating at Riddle and the rest at an FBO's. I'll admit that the Riddle program was marginally higher quality. What's important to note is the benefit of the marginally higher quality didn't come close to making up for the additional cost. When I recommend a flight school, I look at a balance between cost and quality. FSA, while it might be marginally better quality than some FBO's, has prohibitively higher costs. Trust me, even UPS looks at the cost/quality ratio in training.

Marginally better huh? I think you forget that I too have completed ratings at FBO's. I have flown out of at least 20 different ones in their A/C. The training doesn't come close. Not even a little bit....

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

The guy who started this thread said he was only having to pay 25% of the cost himself and I said more power to ya if you wanna go to FSA.

And I hope he does. He may be flying our families around someday...

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

ILS, you can knock the other schools until your blue in the face but it doesn't help your credibility. I'd like to see you take this argument outside the FSA fourm. Now THAT would be fun to watch. Nobody comes here but FSA guys and people asking about FSA.

How does you knockin FSA help your credibility? Oh yeah, thats right, you fly for a major. I give credit when and where it is due. We have had this discussion in other forums. Been there done that..

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

By the way. I'm going to start a timebuilding program with my new Geronimo. It's got an IFR approach approved GPS and an autopilot with altitude hold. Do the FSA twins have that? I'm a B757/767 Capt for a major airline, CFI since 1980, and have over 10,000 hours. Do FSA CFI's have that? For what I'll be doing, I think I can do better than FSA in a lot of ways. And there won't be any of this two guys logging PIC at the same time. Does FSA do that?

Wow.... You have time for that. Maybe we'll get a break here on JC...

1.) Students hand fly the approaches at FSA. The Baby Sitter is disengaged...

2.) 7000 hours of auto pilot time is not neccesary. Makes no difference. Look at FSA's, Riddles, and UND's pass rate and then show us the pass rate at your local FBO's. You can call the FSDO for the data...

3.) Flight Safety guys do not share the PIC time. We do not use safety pilot programs like Ariben...

[Spbeyond]

Guys I really didn't want to start an argument.