Direct Track dead?

[DE727UPS]

"I can't even count on both hands how many people I know that did the program, and now don't have a job"

Well, there ya go Cherokee. Assuming Blizzue has all his fingers, you're down to 95%.

[Captain_Bob]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Assuming Blizzue has all his fingers...

You do make me smile sometimes Don!

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

This talk of 'no one has paid 22.5k and not gotten the job' is ########.

I can't even count on both hands how many people I know that did the program, and now don't have a job.

Can you explain, please don't just stop short.


What do you know about these people?


Are you referring to ASA students that didn't get class dates (Badco and one other guy) ?

That leaves TSA, PNCL, XJT, and Eagle.

TSA did layoff people, but they were all called back, and TSA started interviewing again.

XJT and Eagle all have had classes running in the past few months. PNCL's first group of pilots is going through the program, and they have class dates.


Maybe I missed something.



So, as an honest question, can you please provide more input as to what you know ?

[Stone Cold]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

How are those FSA guys gonna get to 600 total without their CFI's? Maybe direct track, as in hired at ASA at 250 with no need to waste time as a CFI, are dead....

The ad also said CFI, CFII, MEI preferred, I believe. Does anybody know if this is for an Jan class date, or are they ramping up ops?

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Can you explain, please don't just stop short.


What do you know about these people?


Are you referring to ASA students that didn't get class dates (Badco and one other guy) ?

That leaves TSA, PNCL, XJT, and Eagle.

TSA did layoff people, but they were all called back, and TSA started interviewing again.

XJT and Eagle all have had classes running in the past few months. PNCL's first group of pilots is going through the program, and they have class dates.


Maybe I missed something.



So, as an honest question, can you please provide more input as to what you know ?

No I can't name specifics, because it's nobody's business. I know that they completed the program as specified, went off to wherever to start, and were not offered a position. After selling a house, selling their belongings, moving their life, they get there. No job. Great.

Some that did get hired, only to get furloughed the NEXT WEEK. Some that interviewed, and were just plainly turned down. Another who completed the entire program, arrived, and was told he didn't have enough multi time, and to come back when he had more. Interesting tidbit considering you paid 25k.

All this isn't even considering the guys who are given class dates to start the direct track, and then delayed a month. Then another month. Then another. Then another. How about you complete the program, pass your check ride here, and wait a year and a half for a class date.

In my humble opinion, the direct track is a complete, total, encompassing waste of money. You might as well set your money on fire.

[DE727UPS]

"In my humble opinion, the direct track is a complete, total, encompassing waste of money. You might as well set your money on fire"

Where's Clr4ILS, the FSA apologist, when you need him?

Looks like he's got a new target now, Blizzue, better watch out. You officially are now on the FSA managements bad list. Welcome to the club....

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by bLizZuE

No I can't name specifics, because it's nobody's business.

I'm not asking for names and DOBs. I was only asking about how certain people and their experiences panned out at Direct Track.

I know that they completed the program as specified, went off to wherever to start, and were not offered a position. After selling a house, selling their belongings, moving their life, they get there. No job. Great.

You're "offered" a position before Direct Track, no? Maybe you mean they weren't offered a class date, like Badco's case.

Some that did get hired, only to get furloughed the NEXT WEEK.

Not ASA, not Eagle, not PNCL, and not XJT. That leaves TSA. TSA did furlough, but now they recalled everyone. Longest furlough was a couple months. Furloughs isn't something FSA can control.

Some that interviewed, and were just plainly turned down.

That's fine. Not everyone is made to make the cut. At least you interviewed before the $22.5k

Another who completed the entire program, arrived, and was told he didn't have enough multi time, and to come back when he had more. Interesting tidbit considering you paid 25k.

I inquired about this one. Turns out, it was an Eagle guy. During the 2nd and final interview, after phase IV, he "failed" the sim portion at DFW. Whatever the reason was, they said, well, just get 50 more ME time and then you'll get a class date. Not totally hosed, even though he failed the sim during the Eagle DFW (2nd interview).

All this isn't even considering the guys who are given class dates to start the direct track, and then delayed a month. Then another month. Then another. Then another. How about you complete the program, pass your check ride here, and wait a year and a half for a class date.

Certain class dates can be cancelled. Some, like XJT and Eagle, have had no problems. (Especially Eagle)! They get the next available class date.

The one you're talking about is ASA, and yeah, that didn't work out for two people, Badco and one other guy.

In my humble opinion, the direct track is a complete, total, encompassing waste of money. You might as well set your money on fire.

Sounds more like someone utterly pi*sed at FSA. I assume you went there and/or something didn't work out for you ?


I ask you, are you an ex-Direct Track or an ex-FSA person?

I did talk to FSA and upfront, I asked them for contact info of ex-Direct Trackers flying for a regional. They gave me a list of about 10 people. I'll get in touch and ask them about their experience. I bet it will vary greatly from the he!!hole that you are describing.

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

You're "offered" a position before Direct Track, no? Maybe you mean they weren't offered a class date, like Badco's case.

No I mean, they didn't get the job.

That's fine. Not everyone is made to make the cut. At least you interviewed before the $22.5k

No it was after they paid.

I inquired about this one. Turns out, it was an Eagle guy. During the 2nd and final interview, after phase IV, he "failed" the sim portion at DFW. Whatever the reason was, they said, well, just get 50 more ME time and then you'll get a class date. Not totally hosed, even though he failed the sim during the Eagle DFW (2nd interview).

Not totally hosed? Are you freaking kidding me? A little optimistic aren't you.

Certain class dates can be cancelled. Some, like XJT and Eagle, have had no problems. (Especially Eagle)! They get the next available class date.

Yea nothing like sitting around for nearly a year doing nothing. Sounds pretty awesome to me.

Sounds more like someone utterly pi*sed at FSA. I assume you went there and/or something didn't work out for you ?


I ask you, are you an ex-Direct Track or an ex-FSA person?

No I'm not pissed at FSA at all. I like it here for the most part. I didn't do direct track, and I don't intend to. I tell everyone that comes on campus not to even consider it.

I have seen all these people pay their money, and get shafted. Yes, many have gone through without a hitch and are doing very well at their positions. That's great, and I'm glad it worked out for them.

Personally, 22 grand isn't something I feel like gambling with to MAYBE get a job. I think I'll earn mine the old fashioned way.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.


XJT, PNCL, ASA (back when it was running), and TSA... all interview you upfront before you pay $22.5k.

IF you are hired, then you get a conditional letter of employment.

Then you pay 22.5k and do the phase III and IV training.


Once that's done, you get assigned a class date when one is available, and when they can fit you in.


So when you say:

No I mean, they didn't get the job.

Are you saying they never got the COE, or are you saying they never got offered a class date?

My understanding is, and the selling point of Direct Track, is that you get the COE before you pay 22.5k. So that means you are hired.

Once you pay 22.5k and do the training, my understanding is that you are supposed to be assigned a class date.

So are you saying that some guys were delayed in getting class dates?

'Cause that's a little different then saying they didnt get a job after they paid 22.5k

Even Badco said ASA called him to update his flight times and such, so they clearly are interested in Badco, just as soon as they start classes again.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That's fine. Not everyone is made to make the cut. At least you interviewed before the $22.5k

No it was after they paid.

Eagle is the only one that has you interview again after phase IV. The other 4 (XJT, PNCL, TSA, ASA (when that was running) ) only interview you upfront before you pay $22.5k. That's my understanding.

[Flysher]

Heres something people do not always consider, and forgive me if I am wrong but why the heck would someone be in a huge hurry to pay 22 large and get right into a jet at eagle, only to spend YEARS before they could upgrade and get the real quality time?

[DE727UPS]

"why the heck would someone be in a huge hurry to pay 22 large and get right into a jet at eagle, only to spend YEARS before they could upgrade and get the real quality time?"

Good question. That's beyond the scope of what FSA cares about, I would think.

[bLizZuE]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.


XJT, PNCL, ASA (back when it was running), and TSA... all interview you upfront before you pay $22.5k.

IF you are hired, then you get a conditional letter of employment.

Then you pay 22.5k and do the phase III and IV training.


Once that's done, you get assigned a class date when one is available, and when they can fit you in.


So when you say:




Are you saying they never got the COE, or are you saying they never got offered a class date?

My understanding is, and the selling point of Direct Track, is that you get the COE before you pay 22.5k. So that means you are hired.

Once you pay 22.5k and do the training, my understanding is that you are supposed to be assigned a class date.

So are you saying that some guys were delayed in getting class dates?

'Cause that's a little different then saying they didnt get a job after they paid 22.5k

Even Badco said ASA called him to update his flight times and such, so they clearly are interested in Badco, just as soon as they start classes again.

I didn't think it was that complicated. I don't know much about the program. I know that people pay, complete the program, and don't have jobs. That's pretty much all I need to know to label it as a joke.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by jfleisher

Heres something people do not always consider, and forgive me if I am wrong but why the heck would someone be in a huge hurry to pay 22 large and get right into a jet at eagle, only to spend YEARS before they could upgrade and get the real quality time?

If all you care about is getting 121 PIC time AS FAST AS YOU CAN, then head on over to Mesa. If you get the Dash 8 or Beech 1900, you'll upgrade at 1500TT / ATP minimums, and then you can get your "real quality time." You won't have much QOL, but hey, it's the "real quality time" you wanted right ?

How does that sound?





It's NOT just about chasing the fastest upgrade time!. Eagle works for some people, despite the long upgrades. Some people live in base. Others enjoy their seniority. It's all about QOL.


AA has announced recalls, and that should get blowbacks moving. And, keep in mind Eagle did no hiring from Sept 2001 until 2004.

Most junior captain right now is a late '99 date of hire. Once the upgrades go through Sept 2001 hires, the next upgrade guy will be a 2004 hire, so that will bump upgrade down by a few years once that time comes.



But all that having been said, the thing about upgrade times is that they are largely out of your control... if Skywest has a 2 year upgrade right now, tomorrow when you get hired, that upgrade time could be 7 years.

[Flysher]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

If all you care about is getting 121 PIC time AS FAST AS YOU CAN, then head on over to Mesa. If you get the Dash 8 or Beech 1900, you'll upgrade at 1500TT / ATP minimums, and then you can get your "real quality time." You won't have much QOL, but hey, it's the "real quality time" you wanted right ?

How does that sound?





It's NOT just about chasing the fastest upgrade time!. Eagle works for some people, despite the long upgrades. Some people live in base. Others enjoy their seniority. It's all about QOL.


AA has announced recalls, and that should get blowbacks moving. And, keep in mind Eagle did no hiring from Sept 2001 until 2004.

Most junior captain right now is a late '99 date of hire. Once the upgrades go through Sept 2001 hires, the next upgrade guy will be a 2004 hire, so that will bump upgrade down by a few years once that time comes.



But all that having been said, the thing about upgrade times is that they are largely out of your control... if Skywest has a 2 year upgrade right now, tomorrow when you get hired, that upgrade time could be 7 years.

Easy there cherokee, I'm logging nothing but single pilot PIC 135 time right now and I could care a less if I EVER log a tenth of 121 time.

Secondly, it was just an opinion based on one perspective. I personally think its silly for someone to risk it all and take the super accelerated route only to slam to a halt for 5 years while you work towards that magic major airline. I think its much safer to find a route that will allow you to build PIC time earlier on (no NOT mesa), thus allowing you more options in case of furlough/job loss. A regional pilot hired at 400 hours may work for a regional as an SIC for a few years but then get fired, so whats he really have? maybe 350 PIC and about 2000-3000 SIC hours. Just doesnt seem safe to me.

I just feel that with the way the industry is right now you need to have "personal insurance" persay, which in my opinion is good quality time in the logbook that can take you a variety of places.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by jfleisher

Easy there cherokee, I'm logging nothing but single pilot PIC 135 time right now and I could care a less if I EVER log a tenth of 121 time.

Secondly, it was just an opinion based on one perspective. I personally think its silly for someone to risk it all and take the super accelerated route only to slam to a halt for 5 years while you work towards that magic major airline. I think its much safer to find a route that will allow you to build PIC time earlier on (no NOT mesa), thus allowing you more options in case of furlough/job loss. A regional pilot hired at 400 hours may work for a regional as an SIC for a few years but then get fired, so whats he really have? maybe 350 PIC and about 2000-3000 SIC hours. Just doesnt seem safe to me.

I just feel that with the way the industry is right now you need to have "personal insurance" persay, which in my opinion is good quality time in the logbook that can take you a variety of places.

Single engine Part 135 ops? I'm assuming night cargo? That lifestyle works great for some people, and if you're one of them, that is very good.


The bolded portion of your quote is true for ANY regional. My personal opinion is I'd rather take a risk at a place like Eagle, rather than fly single engine Part 135 all-nighters.


But to each his own.




Sorry for the tone of the previous post, I didn't mean to come off bad on you.

[Flysher]

Originally Posted by Cherokee_Cruiser

Single engine Part 135 ops? I'm assuming night cargo? That lifestyle works great for some people, and if you're one of them, that is very good.


The bolded portion of your quote is true for ANY regional. My personal opinion is I'd rather take a risk at a place like Eagle, rather than fly single engine Part 135 all-nighters.


But to each his own.






Sorry for the tone of the previous post, I didn't mean to come off bad on you.

No you didnt, I just wanted to clarify what I said so it wasnt misunderstood.

Night freights not all that dangerous, we even have 2 engines on two thirds of the planes that I fly

No hard feelings though, sorry if I came off as a jerk also.

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by jfleisher

No you didnt, I just wanted to clarify what I said so it wasnt misunderstood.

Night freights not all that dangerous, we even have 2 engines on two thirds of the planes that I fly

No, I didn't say anything about this from a safety or dangerous viewpoint. It's not that at all! I'd feel safe.


What I meant was the lifestyle itself. Checking in every time at around 6-9 pm, and then flying 9pm - 6 am give or take, and then going home at 6am-9am. I just couldn't see myself with that lifestyle for every day of flying duty.

That's what I meant.

No hard feelings though, sorry if I came off as a jerk also.

No hard feelings at all! And sorry if I came off bad, too.