Hired by TSA

[Baronman]

I saw on the academy web site that quite a few Flight Safety pilots have been hired at TSA in 2006. I also had heard that TSA had furloughed a bunch of people. Are the FSA'ers among this group?

Secondly, are they going to TransStates Airlines or the other one under the TransStates Holdings name....You know...the one that starts with G and rhymes with Blow....?

[DE727UPS]

This is another good reason not to do direct track.

[#1FMS]

I was just looking into this very topic...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=29430 (Any TransStates pilots know...)

Direct Track is the fastest way to debt ($22,500 @ FlightSafety + books, etc.)

I'm so glad I got my CFI instead...Thanks in part to DE727

[aloft]

Saw the thread title and first sentence and thought to myself..."man, $80k worth of flight training and the best they can get is a job as a passenger screener???"

[Snow]

Originally Posted by #1FMS

I was just looking into this very topic...

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=29430 (Any TransStates pilots know...)

Direct Track is the fastest way to debt ($22,500 @ FlightSafety + books, etc.)

I'm so glad I got my CFI instead...Thanks in part to DE727

I've been getting only 20-30hrs a month CFIing while my pals who went direct track while I was working on my CFI have over 1000hrs in a RJ already. I agree CFI is the way to go for me, but I'd be lieing if I said I wasn't a bit envious. Although I've been getting paid better and have since flown higher and faster than them, so it's not all bad :P

[n2o2diver]

Snow,

You should have stayed at the academy. I averaged 90hrs a month. Finished my contract therein only 13months and left with 1400tt 800ME. Now at a Center making tripple what I would as a FO.

Can you ask to go back the Vero, I'm sure they are still in need of Instructors?

[dmb911]

I am one to the ones on that list for TSA for 2006, there are only twelve to my knowledge. Yes there are lay-offs at Trans States, I don't know what is going on. I was already to pay 22,500 for a right seat in an RJ, then got shafted (got the phone call on my way to Florida). CFI is looking really really really really really really good right now!

[DE727UPS]

"I was already to pay 22,500 for a right seat in an RJ, then got shafted"

How does FSA allow direct track folks to be "shafted". I guess I don't understand the process. Are you talking about if the airline you signed up for stops hiring?

[dmb911]

As in, constant flipflop of (hiring/not hiring/needing lots of FO's/fulough lots of FO's/Coming soon to interview/3 more months until interview/etc.) Some how TSA went from picking up 12 people for direct track along with other (street) new hires as well, then furloughing people 3 months laters. Either that's really poor insight into how your business is doing and future developments and forsight... or this whole industry sucks right now. (Not sure which side of the fence is sit on for this question).

[blee256]

Originally Posted by aloft

Saw the thread title and first sentence and thought to myself..."man, $80k worth of flight training and the best they can get is a job as a passenger screener???"

yeah but dont forget TSA (security screeners) get paid a lot more than regional FOs.

[APU]

I guess the question is...Is FlightSafety doing anything for these people. I see three possible scenarios.

1) People are enrolled in the TSA program, but have not yet begun training. Disappointing but at least they haven't loss any money yet.

2) People are already enrolled, have quit their jobs, have paid a portion or all of the training, then; TSA starts furloughing. Is anyone in this situation, and if so, what is FSA doing to help them?

3) People have completed training, are at TSA then end up on the street after a few months without enough time to apply anywhere else. What is FSA doing for people like that?

Any info is greatly appreciated. I'm curious to see if FSA leaves them high and dry like a lot of the other so-called "transition programs would".

APU

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by APU

I guess the question is...Is FlightSafety doing anything for these people. I see three possible scenarios.

1) People are enrolled in the TSA program, but have not yet begun training. Disappointing but at least they haven't loss any money yet.

2) People are already enrolled, have quit their jobs, have paid a portion or all of the training, then; TSA starts furloughing. Is anyone in this situation, and if so, what is FSA doing to help them?

3) People have completed training, are at TSA then end up on the street after a few months without enough time to apply anywhere else. What is FSA doing for people like that?

Any info is greatly appreciated. I'm curious to see if FSA leaves them high and dry like a lot of the other so-called "transition programs would".

APU

This is the reason these direct track programs are such a gamble with the current state of the industry. FSA only agrees to get a person the interview and the training. That's what your 25 large pays for. After you're done with training, their responsibility is done. Getting furloughed, not being able to start, etc. etc. is your problem after you've finished the program. If you payed the money and started the program for TransStates, you wasted your money before you wrote the check (IMO). If you get furloughed with very little time, then it's your problem...you should have prepared for that when you signed up for the program.

I think FSA doesn't owe anybody a thing if they've held up their end of the bargain. FSA is not, and should not be responsible for furlough at an airline. FSA cannot be responsible for people getting left high and dry because of their low time. With all that being said, I'm sure FSA will at least offer these people help through the career center, and maybe even first shots at internships or CFI positions...but they don't have to.

[DE727UPS]

APU, you should ask Badco99.

He did direct track with ASA and didn't get hired. Not sure of the exact details but I know ASA stopped hiring for a while.

Last I heard he was leaving aviation to go back to being a police officier in VA.

[APU]

Originally Posted by launchpad

FSA only agrees to get a person the interview and the training. That's what your 25 large pays for. After you're done with training, their responsibility is done.

I thought the difference between the FSA program and others was you got the interview and a signed conditional offer of employment from the airline (conditional upon successfully completing training) before you put down the money.

Is there anyone on the board that is actually at FSA, that is familar with how the TSA direct track guys are/were being handled?

APU

[DE727UPS]

APU, what part of what Lauchpad had to say don't you understand?

You sign a conditional letter of employment and the airline stops hiring and you're screwed. It's a gamble. Reason #4 not to do FSA direct track. Would you care to hear reasons #1 through #3?

Like I said, talk to Badco99. He's been there and done that.

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by APU

I thought the difference between the FSA program and others was you got the interview and a signed conditional offer of employment from the airline (conditional upon successfully completing training) before you put down the money.

Is there anyone on the board that is actually at FSA, that is familar with how the TSA direct track guys are/were being handled?

APU

You're right...you get the COE and the interview. After you dump 25 Large on the training at FSA, you're at the mercy of the airline. If the airline isn't running any classes, or is furloughing (like ASA and TSA), then you're up the creek without a paddle. FSA held up their end of the bargain. You got your job, and you got your training. What the airline does after that is the airline's problem. My thinking is all these people who decided to go with TSA should have been more in tune with the industry. TSA hasn't been a good place to work for many years now....why anyone would want to pay 25 grand to work there is beyond me. They should probably take it as a blessing and a life learning experience that they aren't working there right now...ya, they lost 25 grand, but if they're smart, they'll go get the normal amount of experience for a regional job and be selective about their employer.

[DE727UPS]

Can you double dip at FSA direct track. Let's say you do the 25K for ASA and it doesn't work out. Can you do another 25K to get a job at Express Jet?

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Can you double dip at FSA direct track. Let's say you do the 25K for ASA and it doesn't work out. Can you do another 25K to get a job at Express Jet?

hehe I'm sure you can....the scary part of that kind of situation is that I'm sure there are people out there that would do it.......

As far as I know, each airline has approved a specific training program for these direct track guys.....So I think they *have* to double dip in order to go to another airline......

[APU]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

APU, what part of what Lauchpad had to say don't you understand?

DE727UPS,

Thanks, I did understand what Launchpad said. Hopefully Badco99 will chime in. I'm currently an FO on an RJ, so I'm not asking for myself. What I'm trying to find out is what has FSA done for people already in this situation. Did they offer any assistance, alternative, etc. or did they just say, "so long and thanks for all the fish".


I have a friend (married, 2 kids, almost 40) who was looking at direct track as a means to enter the industry without having to go the instructing route, because frankly...his life situation won't permit it. He has all his rating up to CFIIME, but left the industry 15 years ago, isn't current, and now wants to go back. He's seriously considering, a program like this. Considering the risks, has FSA done anything to try to mitigate any of these obvious risks for people.

APU

[DE727UPS]

Cool. You should send Badco99 a PM if you haven't already. I haven't seen him post in quite a while.

Do you think FSA should guarantee a job for direct trackers? A one year no furlough clause in the contract? What kind of compesation do you think FSA should give if it doesn't "work out"? I can see that opening a huge can of worms. What level of guarantee would your friend need to have to "take the plunge".

Your friend might consider buying some multi time to get current and meet the mins, if he's close. That way he'd have more options and be marketable beyond the one airline you train for at FSA direct track.

[psalm91]

The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP. Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take. There are risks with everything, but there is much less risk imho going the CFI route, as FBO's are always looking for CFI's. I guess my confidence was shaken after what happened with ASA. I feel just awful for the students who had to go through that; especially Badco. He had just passed his checkride when they termed the program I think it's nice that ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired, at least that makes it easier for candidates to take the plunge as opposed to ALL of the risk being on the student.

My .02

[DE727UPS]

"ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired"

There's gotta be some serious fine print in that contract...

[ananoman]

Originally Posted by psalm91

The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP.

What is 'Jet Center-ATP'? Are you at FlightSafety and planning on going to a learing center? Or is 'Jet Center' something else, and by ATP do you mean you plan on getting your ATP or going through ATP's jet transition program? If you are at FSI, by all means go to a center. If you do, there is no reason to go to ATP's program. If you get your ATP and a type rating by doing the internship, the average starting salary for an FO is probably around $40k with benefits, and it goes up from there. I did significantly better on the salary, but don't get any benefits.

[psalm91]

Jet Center = FSA's internship, ATP = Airline Transport Pilot cert

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Originally Posted by psalm91

The lack of post-training marketability (in the event of a no-hire situation) is what kept me from going DT - instead I am going CFI-MEI-CFII-Jet Center-ATP. Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take. There are risks with everything, but there is much less risk imho going the CFI route, as FBO's are always looking for CFI's. I guess my confidence was shaken after what happened with ASA. I feel just awful for the students who had to go through that; especially Badco. He had just passed his checkride when they termed the program I think it's nice that ATP offers a "guarantee" of sorts in the form of cash back if you don't get hired, at least that makes it easier for candidates to take the plunge as opposed to ALL of the risk being on the student.

My .02

ASA has stopped hiring, and are not running classes, true.

Once they do, Badco will get a class date. Whether he accepts it or not is up to him.

Dumping 22.5K (and that's just the net program cost, not including living expenses) with no guarantee of a job, and no guarantee that the airline won't "Dixie Chick" the program right in the middle of things was a gamble I wasn't willing to take.

Badco is guranteed a job... he'll get it once classes start. And let's be real, so as long as Delta is around, so will ASA.

Direct Track has you interview upfront and get hired. Granted, if the airline stops hiring, then you will have to wait a while til classes start again. I asked FSA about how many people that did Direct Track, didn't get hired on after phase IV ?

FSA said there were only two, and one of them already went to another regional airline... so the other being Badco.

I don't see how this is any "riskier" than the CFI looking for work.

I know a CFI, very nice guy, upstanding, clean history, no failed checkrides, everything is great about him... has about 1000 hours total, 110 ME.

His application is in with every regional airline you can name... and he has no interviews!!! It's been a few months now.

Risk is everywhere, no matter what route you go.