SIC at Long Beach

[badco99]

Well, having read the posts in "They finally done did it" thought I'd go ahead with an update.

Never did hear from ASA, and right now that doesn't seem to be a bad thing. I've ended up at the Flight Safety Learning Center in Long Beach. I'm getting SIC qualified in the EMB-120, just had my first sim session today and things went pretty well. Trying to adjust to the way things are done here as opposed to learning how the airlines like things to run. Scheduled to have my checkride on Friday, believe it's done under Part 135.293 as I recall. So things are moving along here.

I was looking at a tow job, but money and distance were a factor. Looking at $1000-1500 for tailwheel endorsement and 10 hrs to boot. Can't afford that right now. And it was going to be a 70 mile drive to the airport and that's just a little too far. I've actaully got a good lead on an instructor job at Santa Monica. Just need to get some current flight time and get back up to speed on some maneuvers since I haven't done them in about a year or so. So things are looking pretty good. It's nice to be moving forward again. I have to admit I kick myself a little for getting talked into direct track. This has turned into an excellent opportunity and seems like a great way to network and learn advanced systems. Just have to wait and see what happens in the next year or so, should be interesting and I'm looking forward to it.

[n2o2diver]

I know that had to be hard to post. I'm waiting for a DE727 to drop in any minute with an I told you so.

Sucks that you had to spend the $22500.00

Did any of the guys you did Direct Track with get in? I instructed some of them and wondred how they made out.

[aloft]

How'd you land the deal at the learning center? What will you be doing there?

[badco99]

Well, UPS said he wouldn't say I told you so, but I've been waiting for something.

Only me and one other guy didn't get in, so 11 out of 13.

The money sucks, but I have over 80 hrs of multi time and the experience in the ERJ has been great for learning things here in Long Beach.


If you get your CFI at FSA you can qualify for an internship at the Learning Centers. When I got out here the internship turned into an SIC position which is basically the same thing, but it pays better. I'm getting SIC qualified in the EMB-120 and will basically throw gear, etc for guys who don't have a training partner. May also end up doing some admin work, so it's worked out to be a pretty good deal.

[DE727UPS]

"I'm waiting for a DE727 to drop in any minute with an I told you so"

Not my style....

Badco, glad to hear things are working out for you. I've wondered.

Do regionals send Capts to your learning center without F/O's? Usually, they would send a full crew for recurrent. What airlines do you train with?

By the way, if direct track led to an intership, like you're doing, sort of a follow on experience builder before throwing you into the real world, I don't think I'd have such a big problem with it. Also, if someone had their CFI, worked as an instructor for a bit, and 500 or 600 hours before doing direct track as a way to move on, I'd have no real problem with it.

I guess if they did that they couldn't call it direct track, though.

[DE727UPS]

"I have to admit I kick myself a little for getting talked into direct track"

Why is that?

[launchpad]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Do regionals send Capts to your learning center without F/O's? Usually, they would send a full crew for recurrent. What airlines do you train with?

When I was sitting reserve in L.A., i would get called up by my airline to go sit in the gear slinging seat quite a bit. I'm pretty sure the interns get to do the no fly thing when private operators show up for training.....

[badco99]

The only regional here is Skywest (also EMB-120), but they pretty much do their own thing for training. I'll sit in with corporate pilots when they don't have a training partner.

And I kick myself because this has turned into a great thing and I could have been doing it back in August rather than now and not have wasted the last six months doing basically nothing but waiting.

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by badco99

The only regional here is Skywest (also EMB-120), but they pretty much do their own thing for training. I'll sit in with corporate pilots when they don't have a training partner.

And I kick myself because this has turned into a great thing and I could have been doing it back in August rather than now and not have wasted the last six months doing basically nothing but waiting.

Those internships can be great. Just remember to instruct or something on the side to get that total time up there. I beleive you can only log so much of that sim time right? I haven't looked it up, so feel free to throw the numbers out there if you know.

I know Snow has learned alot doing his internship in Atlanta and gets to fly the Lear on contract from time to time.

It can lead to a good job in the future with one of the companies contracting the SIMS...

Good luck with it and enjoy the ride...


ILS

[Snow]

Ah the EMB-120 "she'll thrill ya"! Any simulatries between it and the ERJ other than the ram horns? It's a complex aircraft and has a high work load, you'll be fliping switches to no end durring an emergency as a co-pilot. The startup calls is kinda hard too. I dunno how they train there, but here all the EMB-120 instructors are ex ASA instructors so it seems to have a definite airline feel to me. As for logging time I believe you can log 100hrs TT and somthing like 50hrs simulated instrument towards your ATP requirements. and of course you can keep landing and instrument current in the simulator. It's not a bad deal, I basiclly got SIC qualifed on 5 different typed aircraft as well as high altitude training and DVRSM for free. Plus it landed me a gig flying a LearJet 45 for a month. You'll learn alot about how different crews operate too. If you can, jump seat on a few sim sessions.

Enjoy.

[SteveC]

I'm pretty sure that you do not log any sim time as flight time, actual, or simulated IFR, or anything other than "Sim Time". You can apply some of the sim time in place of flight time in order to meet the requirements for some ratings, but it does not go into your total flight time column in the logbook. I'm thinking that is what you were saying, Snow, but the wording makes it sound a little ambiguous so I thought I'd elaborate a little.

I haven't actually studied the regs on this 'cause I didn't need sim time when I did my ATP so I could be wrong, but what I explained above is the way that I remember. I've been wrong before, though, so I suppose it could happen again.

[Snow]

You can log it towards total time, just not flight time, ie not PIC/SIC, or ME or actual etc etc. For example 100hrs of simulator time, if done in a part 142 center in a lvl C or D simulator may count towards your 1500hr TT ATP requirement. The insurance companies love simulator time, they see it as more valuable then flight time. I was able to meet an insurance company's TT requirement by counting my simulator time.

Off the top of my head the inst time requirement for ATP is 75hrs? And 50hrs of that my be accomplished in a lvl c or D simulator. I don't think there is any 'actual' inst time requirement in there.

Personally I don't log simulator time in the total time column, cause it's just as easy to add the TT and sim time together if anyone wants to know what it is. Cause far as I know airlines won't let you count it towards their TT requirements.

Each has it's merits, no simulator flies exactly like the aircraft, nor does one aircraft fly the same as the next, but you do get to practice emergencies in the simulator that you'll either 'hopefully' never see or is too dangerous to practice in the real aircraft.

Originally Posted by SteveC

I'm pretty sure that you do not log any sim time as flight time, actual, or simulated IFR, or anything other than "Sim Time". You can apply some of the sim time in place of flight time in order to meet the requirements for some ratings, but it does not go into your total flight time column in the logbook. I'm thinking that is what you were saying, Snow, but the wording makes it sound a little ambiguous so I thought I'd elaborate a little.

I haven't actually studied the regs on this 'cause I didn't need sim time when I did my ATP so I could be wrong, but what I explained above is the way that I remember. I've been wrong before, though, so I suppose it could happen again.

[psalm91]

Do they let you use the sims on your own off hours? I heard something about being able to use them, but with full motion disabled.

[badco99]

Well, I turned in my resignation on Monday. I'll just say a lot happened and I had enough.

So due to numerous reasons, the biggest being money, I'm trying to get my job as a police officer back. Already scheduled to do retesting in a few weeks. I never thought I'd be doing that, of course I never thought I'd be sitting around for seven months waiting for something to happen either. At least with the police dept I won't have to worry about money, getting furloughed, or the county going out of business. And I'll have enough money to actually rent a plane an go fly on my days off. It was a great ride while it lasted. It wasn't that I did anything wrong, things just didn't work out and now I'm at a point where this is the best thing to do right now.

Anyway, good luck to everyone trying to get their career going.

Oh, and if you're in Northern Virginia...don't break any laws or you may get to meet me in person.

[Check_Six]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

Also, if someone had their CFI, worked as an instructor for a bit, and 500 or 600 hours before doing direct track as a way to move on, I'd have no real problem with it.

I guess if they did that they couldn't call it direct track, though.

My CIME instructor at FSA (back in Fall '00) participated in the ASA direct track program for free while finishing up his 800hr. flight instructing contract. I'm not sure if that was the norm for all instructors, but it was a great deal for him. During the last 100 hours of his contract he spent his mornings flying with me (CIME) and some of the $25k ASA students (they used to do 30 hours of LOFT training in Senecas before hitting the Saab 2000 sim), then spend his afternoons in ASA direct-track ground school and/or sim sessions. Ended up getting hired by ASA with approx. 1200-1500 TT, 500+ ME, 36+ of Level D Saab 2000 sim time (nice intro to FMS / advanced systems experience), and TONS of knowledge.

I think that was an awesome deal. I'm not sure that FSA still gives instructors that option...

Badco...sorry to hear that you've had a rough go. I had to stop flying for a few years, so I can sympathize with having to make that decision. Best of luck in all future endeavours!