ECHO ECHo ECho Echo echo

[chunk75]

friggin crickets in here lately....

[EatSleepFly]

Talking about this industry has begun getting depressing.

[pscraig]

Been busy lately....finished commercial ground and in the vast expanse of Step 2. Actually I had a night dual XC tonight in poor visibility so I learned quite a bit. My learning curve is very steep at this point, and I really hope that at some point it levels off to a more enjoyable level. I really wish I had built up my solo XC time at home before coming down here, so I could just focus on the maneuvers.

I'm also not thrilled at the state of the industry, and wonder how much worse it will get. Being here I now have a frame of reference for comparison. There are some people being hired to regionals here and there, but Mr. Beekman spoke to our ground school a few weeks ago and I asked if they are replacing instructors as they leave at a 1:1 ratio. His answer was essentially no, they will not have another stan class even though they are losing some instructors. To me this means they are reducing the total number of instructors, which is good for the current instructors but very bad for the rest of us. I am unsure if I will even do my CFI ratings here. Combined with the ASA program (or lack thereof) the future isn't so bright. The internship program should help a bit, and I will be interested to see what impact that has on the instructor ranks.

Other than that I like FSI, the facilities, planes, and maintenance are great. The ground schools are good, and I definitely learned something.

[chunk75]

How's your CFI working out?

[pscraig]

He's top notch. I learn a lot every time I fly with him, and that's the problem with step 2: there isn't much dual time.

Good call on that one!

[Raskolnikov]

I've been away for a while. It's a depressing job market, not just for the airline industry but for almost ANY industry. Wow. I moved back to the States in October and only just this week found a full-time job. Flying hasn't been on my mind much as I have no idea how I'll ever pay for it. But I'll keep dreaming. Some day.

Chunk, I just read on another thread that you're entering the CFI job market. Hey congrats!

[cimepilot]

I was actually quite pleased yesterday reading someting at FSI. I saw a TV monitor and eight IPs have been hired recently. Three went to Chataqua, three went to CApe Air, one went to ACA and one other went somewhere I'm not sure about. My old IP just finished her 800 hour contract and she is set to interview with the regionals and Cape Air sometime soon. She also told me in her last IP meeting that they are discussing a stan class for next month.

I am one flight away from my CFI checkride and although I will interview with FSI, I have no hopes of coming back here prior to 2004. I have, however, found a possible job in Orlando and another opportunity in Indiana. Although the market is down don't let that spoil your dream of flying. CFI's can find jobs and make it it out there. All it requires is a little time and effort and maybe a decsision to move some place you don't really want to be. Do your CFI at FSI and get the best training! People in the CFI and flight school world know it is a good CFI program and it helps when you do your job search. Good Luck to all and let's keep our fingers crossed for that next stan class!

[pavelump]

[ QUOTE ]
...and I asked if they are replacing instructors as they leave at a 1:1 ratio. His answer was essentially no, they will not have another stan class even though they are losing some instructors.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really all that they can do. What sense does it make for an instructor to have one or two students especially if the students are in Step 2 where there isn't all that much instructor interaction? It would take an instructor FOREVER to get to the magic number of hours that he/she would need to go into multi-stand. Not to mention the fact that he/she would be eligible for welfare. On a brighter note, I do believe that the new student class sizes are slowly increasing. I'm just starting step 4 now, and I've been thinking a lot about whether I'm going to do my CFI here or not. I think that the training would be excellent, but at the same time, assuming that I could get equally good training from my old FBO instructor (I believe that I could, he was very thorough), I have to weigh the economic factors as well. Most likely I'll be staying here, especially since I have a lease until Nov.! We all just have to hope that enrollment continues to increase and as Capt. Gashe says, "United doesn't go out of business." That would majorly suck.

Dave

[Doug Taylor]

If any of you guys are around FSI VRB and see anyone important, say "Thanks from Jetcareers" for extending the advertising contract!

[flyitup]

[ QUOTE ]
If any of you guys are around FSI VRB and see anyone important, say "Thanks from Jetcareers" for extending the advertising contract!

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug,

Just out of curiosity, how do advertising contracts work? Is it based on a yearly contract? Monthly? I also, guess the company that is doing the advertising on JC has to see positive hits/sales coming from here to keep a contract up right?

I'm not interested in sensitive information, I'm just considering doing some advertising for our business website on the appropriate web page...

Thanks for the info!

[vipermcg]

Flyitup- what kind of things do you sell?

[Doug Taylor]

Well, I more or less tailor something to meet the needs of the advertiser. Some I run monthly agreements, others bi monthly, it really depends.

Basically, it connects advertisers with interested/curious website users and it's a cheap, effective way to reach a tight demographic. Like FSI could run a mega-expensive ad in Flying magazine where most of the readers are probably already pilots and don't have any aviation career goals, or they ould tap jetcareers where most of the users are interested in career-style flight training.

[n2o2diver]

Just started step IV and have to decide soon if I am going to stay here and do my CFI. The thought of spending all this money for the FSA CFI class, then "possibly" being hired and put on a waiting list for a year harddly seems worth it anymore. Especially with the low enrollement, having 1 or 2 students just won't make ends meet. I have been thinking of doing my CFI elsewhere and taking my chances somewhere else. Anyone else having similar thoughts? I was thinking I could go to an FBO or small school get all three CFI ratings and only spend less than half of what it would have cost at FSA, then I could spend the rest on some multi time! Thoughts or comments?

[Acadia]

n2diver,

Im not sure how the CFI ground school is doing these days, but when I went through it with Al St.George last July the course was fantastic. I had never planned to interview (and did not) and I was still really glad I went through the FS CFI after everything else. The FS course really did a nice job preparing me to teach and not just knock out the written and check ride. Im teaching part 61 now and I felt really well prepared when I started. I too was uncertain about the cost, but I have no regrets now. I think its was the best course I went through down there.

[pavelump]

[ QUOTE ]
I too was uncertain about the cost, but I have no regrets now. I think its was the best course I went through down there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've heard that from more than one person...

[EatSleepFly]

Yeah, I'll second that. Doing my CFI at FSI was money well spent even though I didnt get hired. Granted, having FSI on my resume hasnt gotten me any jobs yet, but hey I don't think I'm the only one in that boat. Meanwhile, I'm plugging away at CFII, spending more money that I don't have...

[CFICANFLY]

I will also add that getting your CFI at FlightSafety is a good idea, even if you don't have any plans on instructing there. I returned to VRB today for the first time since leaving. It was cool to be sitting right seat in a customers Mooney, flying back to the old stomping grounds. It was also great to see Chunk again too. Hang in there, all of you. It's worth it in the end!

'canfly

[chunk75]

Awwww, canfly....

[ananoman]

One thing you have to look at when comparing prices for CFI is what other schools actually provide. I had a friend go to American Flyers that advertised the CFI and CFII for $3500. The ground school class featured a bored teacher reading out of the Gleim and it included 12 hours of flying. Even though the CFI at FlightSafety is alot, you will actually be prepared to take the checkride as the 25 hours of flying is more than enough. An added bounus is that it is 141, so you don't have to fly to Orlando and have an FAA inspector give you your check ride. The failure rate up there is pretty steep.

[cimepilot]

Can't you just go through a DPE for the CFI/CFI-I checkrides?

[Viado]

No, the FAA requires all CFI-A initial tests be done at a FSDO. It is the rare exception (eg: FSI) that is permitted to be self-examining for the initial CFI-A. Many other 141 schools are not self-examing for the CFI-A as is FSI. There's many ways that the quality and reputation of FSI shines through...this is one of them.

[Acadia]

Perhaps thats a Florida FSDO thing and not an FAA requirement? Two friends of mine did the initial CFI ride with a regular old examiner, one in Maine and one in Vermont (Both in the last two years). In each case the examiner was most certainly not from the FSDO.

[aviator]

It is not uncommon for DEs to give CFI-A exams.
FSDOs normaly perfer to do these but due to large demands in some areas selected DEs are permited to give the rides. I talked to one of the DE's that commonly does 61 rides for FSI about this. He said the FSDO asked him if he wanted to give the exams and he said no way. His reasoning was that a CFI ride takes soo long that he could make more money and save more time by not doing them.

[pure_IMC]

ok, I go to pan am so dont shoot me chunk. At Pan Am, whether you are 61 or 141 you still fax a request to orl fsdo. They then fax back whether you will go there for your initial or will give you 3 DPE's to choose from. Not sure if FSI is the same, or if this is just a FL thing.

[goldeneagle]

I'm afraid I must agree with diver and lump. I'm in Instrument ground with those two and just starting Step IVA, and when I first started here in September I had resolved to do my CFI here and more importantly, instruct here. But the waiting list that was supposedly shrinking only keeps growing, the burnished image of CIME students being able to transition seemlessly from Step V to CFI to instructing has now tarnished incredibly.
If I had to do over again, or more realistically, advise someone else about training, I would tell them to get all their basic ratings, the CIME, elsewhere at a good FBO or at a more resonably priced though less reputed school like ATP or one of the smaller 141 schools. And then, if they really want to overpay for the CFI (no matter how good the training is, that's a pretty penny with no guarantee of a job and such a long waiting list), I would recommend doing the CFI at FSI.
I think I need to reinforce the feeling of one of the current FSI IPs that he posted on another thread a few weeks back, FlightSafety needs to restructure same as most air carriers are doing. You don't raise prices when times are bad, you cut them. And they really need to put a cap on how long instructors can continue here when times are bad.
They should retain a select few exceptionally good instructors and restrict the rest to maybe a 1000 hour contract (I'm being generous over the current 800). Most students like yours truly expect to be able to instruct at the same place they learned, especially when that place is FSI. I sympathize with the plight of the squatters among the IPs, but some of them just want to stay here indefinitely until they build up a magic number of hours that will get them in the door with a target company, say, NetJets (2500TT) and that just shatters all hopes of current and prospective students, which will only hurt the IPs and FSI in terms of enrollment.
For my part, I am considering getting all three CFI ratings for half the cost at ATP or another 141 school then trying my chances somewhere in the lower 48. I'd love to come back and instruct at FSI, but of course even qualified newly minted CFI grads from FSI are falling through the cracks in the selection process, so I know I woudn't even have a shot at interviewing if I get the CFI ticket elsewhere.
I was one of those people who got a liberal arts degree and chose FSI over grad school, which I believe is one of the things FSI is now trying to officially do to market itself. Well, if things don't improve in terms of flow through, then I would ward off those poor, confused chaps from considering this place as an option unless they are loaded.
I know this place is the best money can buy, at least in the States, but I don't want to be on food stamps and a bachelor repaying loans on a Walmart job until I'm 40. This is especially a concern for those of us who don't have affluent relatives or inheritances/savings or the GI Bill paying for a big chunk of our training expense.
Those people aren't nearly in as deep as fully self-financed students like me. Here's hoping things get better or at least more normal sooner rather than later. Hope I haven't offended, this was a heartfelt critique of our school. We have ardent devotees like Chunk and Baronman and the rest of us who freak out when we think of those loan payments coming due.