Tough Decision

[rickyrhodesii]

Hey everyone...I don't intend for this post to start an argument...I’m just looking for ya'lls opinion.

I have my private with about 60 hours. I'd like to make aviation a career...my first goal is to instruct and then move up to the regionals or part 135 cargo.

That brings me to my question...do you feel like it would be would it benefit me more to continue with part 141/61 training or go with FSA.

The only thing that really worries me about FSA is the cost of training. And believe me, I’ve heard and read that you, "get what you pay for." But $70,000 is a huge chunk of money. And this is even coming from someone who has VA benefits available.

It's a tough decision for me because I’m Air Force active duty with a wife and a kid. I could continue training while getting paid or I could separate and go to FSA?!?

Anyone else out there in the same boat? Thanks for any advice or help you can provide!

-rick

[BoilerPilot2007]

The decision is ultimately yours. Here's my advice:

1) Do a few searches of this forum. See what other people have to say about FSA. I'm sure your questions has come up before.

2) Look through the forum to see what people actually think about "FBO" training vs. FSA.

I think the general consensus here, is that you're just as well off sticking to the FBO route. The fact that you know you'll instruct before getting on to a regional or freight hauler speaks volumes. You've done your research.

My suggestion would be to stay with the FBO route, for your financial and social wellbeing. No need to drop $70k and risk the family when you're just as well off flying close to home!

Hope that helps.

-Evan

[Cav]

What's the over under on how long it will take DE to reply?

[DE727UPS]

"I could continue training while getting paid or I could separate and go to FSA?!?"

I think you would be MUCH better off if you could keep a paycheck coming in while doing your training. I think FSA turns out a fine CFI and has quality training but is it worth the price? I don't think so but you'll have to look at both options and decide for yourself. Nobody will care where you went to flight school when you hit the job market, FSA or part 61. If you did training locally would it be with a militry aero club? There was one at NAS Whidbey that would let you rent a T34.

[jonboy34]

The only thing that really worries me about FSA is the cost of training. And believe me, I’ve heard and read that you, "get what you pay for." But $70,000 is a huge chunk of money. And this is even coming from someone who has VA benefits available.



OK Make your own decision, just dont make it based on FSA being $70G, ... if you already have your private, the most you could spend getting everything else up to your CFII is around $45-50. (not to mention the internship pays you $14/hr 40/wk)
good luck

[rickyrhodesii]

DE727UPS:

To answer your question, it would not be a Military Aero Club. Those appear to be a fast dying species. It would definitely be nice though...the prices have got to be the lowest around. I know Maxwell AFB has (or maybenot anymore) one and their prices a few years ago to rent a 172 was 35 dollars an hour!

Thanks for your input...I'm just looking to see what other people have to say and the routes they took.

-rick

[rickyrhodesii]

jonboy34:

I suppose this is the route you took? What are the opportunities for employment before you obtain your CFI? Is the schedule do demanding that you couldn't get a job somewhere in Vero...or would that just be scheduling nightmare?

Thanks for any advice you might have...

-rick

[rickyrhodesii]

While I’m thinking about it...are there any of you out there that started the academy with your private pilot certificate (or higher) that would be willing to share your story? What path did you take? How much did you spend?

thanks!

-rick

[Instrument_Proficient]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I could continue training while getting paid or I could separate and go to FSA?!?"

Nobody will care where you went to flight school when you hit the job market, FSA or part 61.

The pilot recruiter that hires for Trans States Airlines (regional) recently told me that he throws all resumes from part 61 training in the trash. He says you never know what your going to get. He says that the quality of pilots out of 141 schools like Flight Safety and Embry Riddle is always high. He prefers 141 in general because it is structured and thorough.

I believe that this is what the pilot recruiters from Atlantic Southeast Airlines have said also.

IP

[DE727UPS]

"The pilot recruiter that hires for Trans States Airlines (regional) recently told me that he throws all resumes from part 61 training in the trash"

"I believe that this is what the pilot recruiters from Atlantic Southeast Airlines have said also"

Wow. That's pretty harsh. So you are saying you can't get hired at TSA or ASA unless you are from a 141 school? Any ASA or TSA guys wanna confirm this?

I'll send my buddy who just left TSA for Skywest an email and see what he says....he trained at Mazzei.

[rickyrhodesii]

IP:

I'm not looking for a guaranteed job interview or anything like that. I'm looking at FSA because of the structured training environment and the quality of training. Being in the military and an air traffic controller, I'm accustomed to the very structured learning environment. It was kind of hard for me to learn at Part 61 schools because of the lack of structure. (I know it's different everywhere you go...I really didn't have too many choices available!) And believe me; I know everyone should choose a flight school/academy because of their personal preferences. FSA just seems like the one for me!

Again I ask...if there are any FSA students out there that wouldn't mind talking with me, I’d sure appreciate it. (Thanks blizzue!) Especially those that are using VA bennies.

[bLizZuE]

Any time my friend!

[Snow]

OR you could do both! Here's a little advertised fact, but you can get a job working on the fuel truck at FSA and get free ground schools and greatly reduced prices on flying expences. I didn't do it personally as my goal was to finish in the shortest time possible, but that's anonther way you can save money, but since you have to work full time to qualify that leaves less time for training and it will ultimatly take you longer to finish the program. Plus you gotta be pretty motavated to work outside in the Florda summers!

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

"I could continue training while getting paid or I could separate and go to FSA?!?"

I think you would be MUCH better off if you could keep a paycheck coming in while doing your training. I think FSA turns out a fine CFI and has quality training but is it worth the price? I don't think so but you'll have to look at both options and decide for yourself. Nobody will care where you went to flight school when you hit the job market, FSA or part 61. If you did training locally would it be with a militry aero club? There was one at NAS Whidbey that would let you rent a T34.

[Instrument_Proficient]

Originally Posted by rickyrhodesii

[color=black][color=black]IP: I'm looking at FSA because of the structured training environment and the quality of training. Being in the military and an air traffic controller, I'm accustomed to the very structured learning environment. It was kind of hard for me to learn at Part 61 schools because of the lack of structure.

You are absolutley correct. Part 61, for the most part, lacks structure and is hit and miss with respect to what kind of training you will recieve. Part 141 is structured so each lesson builds on the last and everything is covered A-Z.

If you like the the Airforce style of training, then you will love Flight Safety. They train in that fashion. In fact, they train alot of military personel.

Good luck with your decision.

IP

[DE727UPS]

"You are absolutley correct. Part 61, for the most part, lacks structure and is hit and miss with respect to what kind of training you will recieve"

I love the lack of structure in 61, I really do. I gives you so much freedom to do what you need to do and not what the FAA syllabus says you HAVE to do. Structure for the sake of structure, which is what 141 is, doesn't impress me. At the same time, I don't disagee that FSA is a great place to do one's flight training. It's not great because it's 141, it's great because they have an established program that works. It's also very expensive, to the point I think a guy can do better elsewhere at a place that has an established program that works.

I really wonder about those that feel they need so much structure that they can't fill in the blanks on their own. What are you gonna do when you have to make a decision outside the agenda?

[CLR4ILS]

Originally Posted by DE727UPS

I love the lack of structure in 61, I really do. I gives you so much freedom to do what you need to do and not what the FAA syllabus says you HAVE to do.

What you need to do is EVERYTHING that is necessary to make you a safe proficient pilot. The FAA likes 141 for more reasons than one. Structure is one. Lessons that build on each other is one. How about the pass rate Don? 141 has a much higher pass rate than 61. Why do you think that is? I guess the part 61 students only "needed" to do enough to create a lousy pass rate huh?

Structure for the sake of structure, which is what 141 is, doesn't impress me.

Not much does....

At the same time, I don't disagee that FSA is a great place to do one's flight training. It's not great because it's 141, it's great because they have an established program that works. It's also very expensive, to the point I think a guy can do better elsewhere at a place that has an established program that works.

Take out the things FSA offers that your wonderful little FBO school cannot like, upset attitude recovery training, spatial disorientation training, instrument rating in a complex twin (could, but I am sure doesn't), and the price is probably about the same. Now which school would you choose? Oh I know, the 61 FBO right?

I really wonder about those that feel they need so much structure that they can't fill in the blanks on their own. What are you gonna do when you have to make a decision outside the agenda?

Think about what you just said....... Now, take yourself out of the "I know everything seat" and put yourself in the shoes of a pre-private through Commercial multi student. Now Don, do you remember all the way back to when you actually didn't know anything. How the hell is a "STUDENT" who is relying on the school and their instructor to guide them supposed to fill in the blanks?

Do not try to say that you are only talking about decision making skills in the A/C (taking the student out of the box). If that is what you are talking about and not the structure of the training with respect to syllabus, SOP, and checklist usage, then I would gladly take any FSA student and put them up against your 61 "free to do what the hell we want student" in an emergency to see who handles it best.


Still trying to figure out where you fit in.....

ILS

[DE727UPS]

"then I would gladly take any FSA student and put them up against your 61 "free to do what the hell we want student" in an emergency to see who handles it best"

Well...I'd have gladly taken you up on that but my guy got hired at Amflight a year ago and is a checkairman on the Beech 99 now. You got any FSA buddies who in one year went from 1200 total/30 ME to not just PIC turbine, but checkairman? And, yeah, he did it 61 and I trained him for his IFR.

"Still trying to figure out where you fit in....."

Fit into what?

[rickyrhodesii]

Thanks for the replys JCers!

I must say that I finally had time to read through "Snow's" "Diaries of FlightSafety Academy." Great reading and source of information for anyone looking for an indepth, day-to-day view of operations and training as FSA. Hope you don't mind Snow...just so people can find it easier!

Snow does Private...a FSA Diary
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-safety-academy/5350-snow-does-private-a-fsa-diary.html

Snow does time building/commercial ground...an FSA Diary
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-safety-academy/6294-snow-does-time-building-comerical-ground-an-fsa-diary.html

Snow does multi-engine...a FSA Diary
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-safety-academy/7699-snow-does-multi-engine-an-fsa-diary.html

Snow does Instrument...a FSA Diary
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-safety-academy/8064-snow-does-instrument-an-fsa-diary.html

Snow does Step 5...a FSA Diary
http://forums.jetcareers.com/flight-safety-academy/9471-snow-does-step-5-an-fsa-diary.html

These post really helped me in finalizing where to finish my flight training...i think you all know where that might be!

[viper548]

Ricky,
I did my training under 141 at a local FBO and saved a ton of money over what they charge at FSA. You should check out the local schools before you decide on an academy

[DE727UPS]

Viper. I know you fly for Skywest so you're in a better position to know than me. Does what flight school you went to play a big factor in getting hired at a regional?

[BobDDuck]

Originally Posted by Instrument_Proficient

The pilot recruiter that hires for Trans States Airlines (regional) recently told me that he throws all resumes from part 61 training in the trash. He says you never know what your going to get. He says that the quality of pilots out of 141 schools like Flight Safety and Embry Riddle is always high. He prefers 141 in general because it is structured and thorough.

I believe that this is what the pilot recruiters from Atlantic Southeast Airlines have said also.

IP

Hmm... I am going to call shannagins on this. I have two friends that were hired at TSA in the past 6 months and neither had any 141 experience. Likewise another friend was hired at ASA with no 141 and I was offered an interview there without ever doing a 141 flight. Nice thought though.

[rickyrhodesii]

Originally Posted by viper548

Ricky,
I did my training under 141 at a local FBO and saved a ton of money over what they charge at FSA. You should check out the local schools before you decide on an academy

Well that was my number one option but, the closest part 141 school for me is over 150 miles...it's not worth driving a total of six hours for an hour or hour and a half flight lesson. And i bet if i totalled the gas i spent to get there...it would be higher than FSA in the end.

Believe me, i'd much rather start now than wait a year and a half until i complete my contract with uncle sam!

[rickyrhodesii]

One of the biggest factors for considering FlightSafetyAcademy is the fact they are VA approved. Part 61 schools can't help me there and Part 141 schools are virtually non-existent where I’m located (Vance AFB, OK), so what better way to finish up flight training than in sunny Florida.

If my VA benefits are going to cover 60% of all approved cost (more like 50% after further research) you bet price isn't a factor to me. From extensive research and interviewing (military and civilian pilots), FlightSafety is the best choice for me!

Thanks for all you JCers who have provided me with input...both positive and negative.

On a side note, when the Air Force chooses to contract FlightSafety to run numerous programs throughout the Air Force network...that speaks loud enough for me!

[DE727UPS]

"If my VA benefits are going to cover 60% of all approved cost"

I was wondering if you were VA. That's a great reason to go to a larger 141 school that does a lot of VA guys.

[SUSPilot]

Originally Posted by Instrument_Proficient

The pilot recruiter that hires for Trans States Airlines (regional) recently told me that he throws all resumes from part 61 training in the trash. He says you never know what your going to get. He says that the quality of pilots out of 141 schools like Flight Safety and Embry Riddle is always high. He prefers 141 in general because it is structured and thorough.

I believe that this is what the pilot recruiters from Atlantic Southeast Airlines have said also.

IP

I have to disagree with you on that one. I got all of my training part 61. I was hired by TSA(along with 5 other instructors from my flight school in thepast year), offered a job by another regional, and interviewed with ASA. So regardless of what they tell you the acadamies are not the only way to the regionals.