Info on Direct Track Programs - Page 3

ComplexHiAv8r · November 8th, 2005, 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CLR4ILS

...., but at least I can afford to buy a plane (next month) to satify my taste for speed at a whopping 120 knots.

So,what did you end up buying for an aircraft?

Flyingbug · November 9th, 2005, 14:03

All you FSA guys, Do someone entering the Direct -track program with let's say about 400 hrs .......has a say in requesting what airline ( American Eagle/ASA/Trans-States) he would like to get hired by ...after going through the necessary initial training/ evaluation ...i guess they call Phase 1 - Phase 2A... required before an Interview which the Phase 3 before they say start the Sims......or is pretty much left upto the Academy to put you where need arises.

I have been reading these threads for quite a while ...and from what I understand ...the whole Delta connection is not doing so well...( i may be mistaken....) ....no one with a straight head would put down 26 big ones just to get laid off months down the road.

DE727UPS · November 9th, 2005, 20:31

"no one with a straight head would put down 26 big ones just to get laid off months down the road"

I see this as a major problem with direct entry. This isn't exactly a predictable industry. Comair is going to furlough. TSA would probably mean Gojets, which is an alter-ego union buster. ASA is owned by Skywest, now. Could get ugly if they merge the lists or whipsaw. Eagle is said to have long upgrades, but is stable. At least if a guy has a good background and CFI tickets, he can find a job instructing or doing 135 freight if things go bad at his first regional. 135 freight won't hire 500 hour ab-inito guys....

Check_Six · November 9th, 2005, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingbug

...no one with a straight head would put down 26 big ones just to get laid off months down the road.

I attended FSA in 2000 and recently (within the past few months) picked up some new info about the direct programs. After completion of Phases 1 and 2 you have the option to interview with all of the participating airlines. Those that are interested in you will give a C.O.E (conditional offer of employment). At that point you must choose with which to complete the training. The kicker is that if only one airlines gives you a call back then your options are obviously limited. If your heart is set on direct-entry, then do a little research on the current condition of each airline with whom you are planning to interview (i.e. make sure that they won't go belly up the day after your checkride). Best advice comes from the guys on this website...not the FSA marketing staff. To them all the airlines are going to upgrade you in one month and send you to the majors after two

. Hey...it's their job.

Disclaimer: There is ALWAYS a risk that you will complete the program and have either no job or no immediate class date waiting at the end of the yellow brick road. It's just the reality of the industry. I have known guys that completed the program and had to wait for another hiring cycle before getting a class date. Did they still have their foot in the door? Sure. But it was a hassle.

Whatever you decide...best of luck to ya'!

P.S. I'll agree with DE727UPS in that getting your CFI, although possibly seeming like a waste of money (if you do the direct program) is a good idea. At least you'll still have an aviation option if things go south...

Flyingbug · November 11th, 2005, 16:01

Check Six and De727 thanks for your 2 cents....

Does anyone advise to get the ATPL written out of the way before you go for the initial interview with any of these participating airlines at FSA.

I am still fresh with the Commercial written test material ...figured would'nt hurt writing the ATP Knowledge test...before i forget everything.
I am not sure how long is the written valid for.I know i will be like a 350-400 hr pilot with a Frozen ATP ...It sounds good ...but I am not sure if that would be a advantage in real life.

Check_Six · November 12th, 2005, 23:17

Here is the ATP info from the FSA website...

Tip of the Month

The ATP Written – To Take or Not to Take?

We often get asked "Should I or should I not take the ATP written?" "Is it required?" "Does it make me more competitive?" While I have my own thoughts on the subject, I turned to one of our friendly airline pilot recruiters, Captain Julie Skoglund from ASA, to get her point of view. This is what she had to say:
"The ATP is a very valuable learning tool. The required knowledge for the test will add to any low-time pilot's knowledge base. I suggest that they take the written if they can but do not just study the questions in order to pass the test. A low-time person should spend many hours learning and understanding the material. This will give them valuable insight to advanced operations and technical details. An applicant who has studied the material will have an easier time in an interview and will feel more confident. It's another feather in their cap. As far as making someone more competitive, it's a small part of the total package." As a reminder, the ATP written is good for two years from the time of testing. If you begin working for an Airline within those two years, it does not expire.

Hope it helps!

CLR4ILS · November 14th, 2005, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComplexHiAv8r

So,what did you end up buying for an aircraft?

I am looking at some Warriors right now. Being very picky. There are some nice ones out there with low total time. The key is to find one that has recently been over hauled. Interior, panel, and paint can be upgraded in a matter of weeks.

ILS

ak25iou · December 28th, 2005, 14:54

Much like Diamnd, I seem to be in the same situation however, Im 25 and posses a BS. I fell in love with aviation after messing around on flight simulator, flying an airplane was a passion that I just needed to master.

To cut right to the chase, leaving out all the history here's the deal. I already took out a heavy loan and invested it into a 141 flight school where I have completed all of my ratings including COMM, IFR, MULTI. I am still attending the same flight school however, (cough,cough) they have recently filed chapter 11 bankruptcy and personally, I have seen the ill effects of it. I have been working on my CFI for 4 months now and have only completed 3 lessons! Time and money are seriously on the line and I am fed up!

Recently I have discovered that FSA offers this direct track program, costly, but appealing. The one problem is that I dont quite have the hours required to fullfill the minimums. It seems that for someone such as myself who is young but at an age where an established career is needed, this could be a great route.

My question is would it be wise to finish up my CFI at this (bankrupt) place? Get my CFI at another FBO and work my hours up to where I have enough to fulfill FSA's minimums for direct track, 100 hr for me and maybe like 20 multi? Bite the bullet, cash out with the bankrupt place and invest with FSA and do my CFI there? Or forget the CFI all together, open an account fly a 152 for 100 hours and then invest the rest of my money in the direct track??

I understand that overall it is my decision but I would just like some input or some advice. I dont know many outside resources other than this website, and everyone has their own opinion. I have too much invested in this to forget it all together and like I said flying to me is a passion and is going to be my career. I am just at a point where I dont want to be screwed and eventhough Im only 25 I really just want to be on my way without fumbling around.

If anyone has some input on the direct track program offered at FSA please write back or any opinions on what route would be best, please help.

Alex

270 hr TT/ 36 hr MT

alexkominski@yahoo.com

DE727UPS · December 28th, 2005, 17:45

Alex, what flight school are you at? Airman? Just curious.

Anyhow, you are right. You are young. What the big appeal of direct track? Just finish your CFI up wherever and get a job. Build your time. And get a job. With the networking available at jetcareers finding a CFI job can't be that tough. There are some serious dangers in direct track they don't talk about at the website. You are locked into one airline at super low time. If said airline has problems, YOU have a big problem. How would you like to have done direct track and have just gone to Comair. Did you hear today that CO is threatening to take 69 of 274 airplanes away from Expressjet and farm the flying out. How would you like to be direct track to Expressjet and hear that news? ASA just got bought out by another regional, Skywest. The implications? Who knows, they are better off than Comair, that's for sure. My point?

Guys with real experience and flight time have options. Working as a CFI is a great way to get a solid background before moving on to the regionals.

At least finish up your CFI. You've worked so hard to get to this point and it would be a good backup to have.

ak25iou · December 29th, 2005, 06:39

Would anyone have any input in terms of experience teaching at FSA??? I mean do most of the CFIs get hired who go thru the program there? Also whats the deal with the corperate jet "internship" they offer?

launchpad · December 29th, 2005, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak25iou

Would anyone have any input in terms of experience teaching at FSA??? I mean do most of the CFIs get hired who go thru the program there? Also whats the deal with the corperate jet "internship" they offer?

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthr...usiness+direct

about half way down i posted most of the details about the internship.....

teaching there was awesome...great company and good pay/benefits....and a good amount of experience....

davidhigbie · December 30th, 2005, 15:42

As a former direct track instructor, its a great learning experience and, I believe, right for the "right" person...you have to decide if its right for you- I am not going to put out criteria, etc...would be unfair to FSA and their marketing goals, etc. Most of my former "clients" thought long and hard before shelling out the cash- life situation, age, family, etc etc etc. Some, unfortunately, (I believe) were looking for a short cut or an easy path to a 20k/yr job flying shiny jets. You are going to have to work- you owe that to your profession and future passengers. 25' below MDA is not acceptable, 4kts below V2 is not acceptable, etc.

Just getting in this business at all is a risk- dont get me wrong, on the worse days I cant imagine doing anything else, but its a risk. Look at me- I've driven across the country 2x in the last 10 months with all of my possessions in my truck, had some family, personal and relationship strains, money isnt always available to go out and eat, i dont buy expensive beer, I'm fixing to move in with mom&dad for a bit since being stationed in newark, and, now at a company I really like with outstanding people, I may be furloughed in less than a year. But, we'll see what happens.

November 9th, 2005, 14:03	#52
Flyingbug Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 34	Do beggars really have no choice? All you FSA guys, Do someone entering the Direct -track program with let's say about 400 hrs .......has a say in requesting what airline ( American Eagle/ASA/Trans-States) he would like to get hired by ...after going through the necessary initial training/ evaluation ...i guess they call Phase 1 - Phase 2A... required before an Interview which the Phase 3 before they say start the Sims......or is pretty much left upto the Academy to put you where need arises. I have been reading these threads for quite a while ...and from what I understand ...the whole Delta connection is not doing so well...( i may be mistaken....) ....no one with a straight head would put down 26 big ones just to get laid off months down the road.

November 12th, 2005, 23:17	#56
Check_Six Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 58	ATP Written Here is the ATP info from the FSA website... Tip of the Month The ATP Written – To Take or Not to Take? We often get asked "Should I or should I not take the ATP written?" "Is it required?" "Does it make me more competitive?" While I have my own thoughts on the subject, I turned to one of our friendly airline pilot recruiters, Captain Julie Skoglund from ASA, to get her point of view. This is what she had to say: "The ATP is a very valuable learning tool. The required knowledge for the test will add to any low-time pilot's knowledge base. I suggest that they take the written if they can but do not just study the questions in order to pass the test. A low-time person should spend many hours learning and understanding the material. This will give them valuable insight to advanced operations and technical details. An applicant who has studied the material will have an easier time in an interview and will feel more confident. It's another feather in their cap. As far as making someone more competitive, it's a small part of the total package." As a reminder, the ATP written is good for two years from the time of testing. If you begin working for an Airline within those two years, it does not expire. Hope it helps!

December 28th, 2005, 14:54	#58
ak25iou Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9	Similar situation Much like Diamnd, I seem to be in the same situation however, Im 25 and posses a BS. I fell in love with aviation after messing around on flight simulator, flying an airplane was a passion that I just needed to master. To cut right to the chase, leaving out all the history here's the deal. I already took out a heavy loan and invested it into a 141 flight school where I have completed all of my ratings including COMM, IFR, MULTI. I am still attending the same flight school however, (cough,cough) they have recently filed chapter 11 bankruptcy and personally, I have seen the ill effects of it. I have been working on my CFI for 4 months now and have only completed 3 lessons! Time and money are seriously on the line and I am fed up! Recently I have discovered that FSA offers this direct track program, costly, but appealing. The one problem is that I dont quite have the hours required to fullfill the minimums. It seems that for someone such as myself who is young but at an age where an established career is needed, this could be a great route. My question is would it be wise to finish up my CFI at this (bankrupt) place? Get my CFI at another FBO and work my hours up to where I have enough to fulfill FSA's minimums for direct track, 100 hr for me and maybe like 20 multi? Bite the bullet, cash out with the bankrupt place and invest with FSA and do my CFI there? Or forget the CFI all together, open an account fly a 152 for 100 hours and then invest the rest of my money in the direct track?? I understand that overall it is my decision but I would just like some input or some advice. I dont know many outside resources other than this website, and everyone has their own opinion. I have too much invested in this to forget it all together and like I said flying to me is a passion and is going to be my career. I am just at a point where I dont want to be screwed and eventhough Im only 25 I really just want to be on my way without fumbling around. If anyone has some input on the direct track program offered at FSA please write back or any opinions on what route would be best, please help. Alex 270 hr TT/ 36 hr MT alexkominski@yahoo.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

November 9th, 2005, 20:31	#53
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,625	"no one with a straight head would put down 26 big ones just to get laid off months down the road" I see this as a major problem with direct entry. This isn't exactly a predictable industry. Comair is going to furlough. TSA would probably mean Gojets, which is an alter-ego union buster. ASA is owned by Skywest, now. Could get ugly if they merge the lists or whipsaw. Eagle is said to have long upgrades, but is stable. At least if a guy has a good background and CFI tickets, he can find a job instructing or doing 135 freight if things go bad at his first regional. 135 freight won't hire 500 hour ab-inito guys....

November 11th, 2005, 16:01	#55
Flyingbug Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 34	Check Six and De727 thanks for your 2 cents.... Does anyone advise to get the ATPL written out of the way before you go for the initial interview with any of these participating airlines at FSA. I am still fresh with the Commercial written test material ...figured would'nt hurt writing the ATP Knowledge test...before i forget everything. I am not sure how long is the written valid for.I know i will be like a 350-400 hr pilot with a Frozen ATP ...It sounds good ...but I am not sure if that would be a advantage in real life.

December 28th, 2005, 17:45	#59
DE727UPS Old Skool Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 6,625	Alex, what flight school are you at? Airman? Just curious. Anyhow, you are right. You are young. What the big appeal of direct track? Just finish your CFI up wherever and get a job. Build your time. And get a job. With the networking available at jetcareers finding a CFI job can't be that tough. There are some serious dangers in direct track they don't talk about at the website. You are locked into one airline at super low time. If said airline has problems, YOU have a big problem. How would you like to have done direct track and have just gone to Comair. Did you hear today that CO is threatening to take 69 of 274 airplanes away from Expressjet and farm the flying out. How would you like to be direct track to Expressjet and hear that news? ASA just got bought out by another regional, Skywest. The implications? Who knows, they are better off than Comair, that's for sure. My point? Guys with real experience and flight time have options. Working as a CFI is a great way to get a solid background before moving on to the regionals. At least finish up your CFI. You've worked so hard to get to this point and it would be a good backup to have.

December 29th, 2005, 06:39	#60
ak25iou Newbie Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 9	Would anyone have any input in terms of experience teaching at FSA??? I mean do most of the CFIs get hired who go thru the program there? Also whats the deal with the corperate jet "internship" they offer?

December 30th, 2005, 15:42	#62
davidhigbie Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: iah Posts: 169	As a former direct track instructor, its a great learning experience and, I believe, right for the "right" person...you have to decide if its right for you- I am not going to put out criteria, etc...would be unfair to FSA and their marketing goals, etc. Most of my former "clients" thought long and hard before shelling out the cash- life situation, age, family, etc etc etc. Some, unfortunately, (I believe) were looking for a short cut or an easy path to a 20k/yr job flying shiny jets. You are going to have to work- you owe that to your profession and future passengers. 25' below MDA is not acceptable, 4kts below V2 is not acceptable, etc. Just getting in this business at all is a risk- dont get me wrong, on the worse days I cant imagine doing anything else, but its a risk. Look at me- I've driven across the country 2x in the last 10 months with all of my possessions in my truck, had some family, personal and relationship strains, money isnt always available to go out and eat, i dont buy expensive beer, I'm fixing to move in with mom&dad for a bit since being stationed in newark, and, now at a company I really like with outstanding people, I may be furloughed in less than a year. But, we'll see what happens.