FSA Tour

[Robert_Quinn]

NOTE: Follow this link to my photo album from the tour (you'll need a free Snapfish account): http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailsha...19/t_=10337235

A quick background on me: Im 24, I have served 6 enlisted years in the US Air Force. I have dreamed of being an airline pilot for as long as I can remember. I have a wife and no kids. I am about to leave the USAF to pursue my goals.

I arrived at Flight Safety Academy (FSA) on Tuesday, April 6th in the evening. I stayed over night in one of the campus bungalows. I had my tour on the following day, which ended officially around 2:00 p.m. I had a blast, and I can't wait to go back! Below is an outline of events that took place, and my sincere thoughts as I spent the day with my tour airman.

Day 1: I arrived on campus ready to compare the FSA to other ab-initio pilot schools that I had visited over the last couple of days. When i pulled into the parking lot, the first thought I had was how clean and professional looking the whole campus appeared. There was something about this school that I liked from the get-go. I walked inside to be greeted by Joan, with a huge smile, at the front desk. To the right of the counter a sign saying "Welcome to Flight Safety Mr. Robert Quinn". Although this was a small gesture, it was very thoughtful, and I hope they know just how much it meant to me (other schools had no idea who I was when I arrived, despite several confirmations of my appointment with them!). I received a welcome packet with my key to my assigned bungalow. I was so excited I didn't know where to start. Inside the foyer at the welcoming building, there are several pictures of airmen who graduated form FSA and moved on the Airline careers. Oh how I wanted to be one of those lucky individuals! My bungalow was pretty small, yet very comfortable. It immediately won me over with a couple posters of a Falcon business jet and the B747 on the walls! The bungalows have 3 rooms (I believe) that are connected to a common area which includes the bathroom, living room, and kitchen. Compared to upscale Air Force enlisted dorms, this was first class! I had the chance to talk with a few students before I turned in. Every single pilot I talked to was so nice, all were very happy in their decisions to go to the school. I talked to a couple prior military guys who saved to come to the school, a pilot with prior flight experience who wanted to further his career, and a few (cute) girls who were sponsored by parents to attend the school. I found it extremely uncommon to meet fellow peers who were at this caliber. I staggered back to my room around 11 p.m. and "tried" to get sleep for the big day - but how can you when you're this excited!

Day 2: I was first introduced to the staff at FSA. I met with Tonya Garey (career development) and Jacqueline Gauger-Carlon (senior marketing manager), as well as Sylvia Buckley (financial aid) and Mary Wood (Veterans Affairs rep, and "much much more"). Next I was introduced to my tour guide, a pilot by the name of Dane Evans (who was also 23 - my age). At the time he was very close to graduating FSA and moving on to become a flight instructor. What a cool dude by the way! Dane was professional in every way. He answered all my questions, and was extremely patient. We headed over to the academics building. Inside the academics building you kind find a cafeteria with an excellent staff, and a "to die for" menu! There is a library upstairs, get this, THAT HAS NOTHING BUT FLYING BOOKS AND MAGAZINES!!! ...This confirmed I was in heaven! Also in the library were several well
up kept PCATD (simulators), as well as other computers for Internet access Downstairs, Dane showed me the 2 Full motion simulators. If you have never seen one before, they are GINORMOUS! they take a 2 story building and a control facility to operate. Currently FSA is training with an ERJ and a SAAB F/M sim. I got to peek inside the older SAAB and was given a mini tour by one of the sim instructors. You really forget you're in a sim in this thing- it has a very real feeling to it! Next Dane and I went to see the ZLIN aerobatic trainer and the spatial disorientation trainer. The ZLIN is such a cool little bird. You strap on both the plane and a parachute and just go have fun (priceless training, of course!). The spatial D sim was interesting, you get inside a ball with a sim panel. You sit in the dark and they spin you 7 ways to Sunday. They have several nighttime visual illusions that they can load and train you on-- totally cool! Well, saving the best for last, Dane and I walk over to the flightline. I could see glimpses of the aircraft, but didn't get the real view until we stepped on the tarmac. This is about the point my heart stops and my jaw drops. Everything I have ever dreamed about flying is all right here, in the 120+ aircraft that were parked so perfectly on the line. An endless field of beautiful shining PIPER arrows, cadets, and seminoles. This was the real deal. Not a cheesy flight school, this was the ONLY school. The aircraft were all kept to impeccable maintenance standards, and were visually awe-inspiring. I felt what spent like an eternity out there, loving every moment of it. I was on cloud 9. Dane and I sat in a Seminole, and we just talked, about anything. He executed several checklist by memory flawlessly, simulating start up to shut down procedures. Danes fingers flowed across the guage cluster effortlessly. I can only imagine how tough this school must be on their pilots. I remember the enormous amount of envy and respect I had for Mr. Evans after watching him do his left seat magic. My tour was coming to an end. I got to meet one more person before I was completely done. Mr. Richard Skovgaard (Director/Center Manager). He's a retired 0-6 (Colonel), USAF, and a very sharp man. He flew KC-135's, among many others during his time in the Air Force. He likes to meet with all student prospects, and during my time with him, I didn't feel judged for a second. He was very welcoming, and motivated me to return to the school when I was separated from the military. I assured him that no matter what, I would be back.

To make a short story long, this school has it all. You can love everything and dislike nothing here. Compared to the competitor schools (Embry-Riddle, Delta Connections Academy, ATP), FSA is light years above and beyond! I have made my mind up and will attend this school as soon as I am released from the active duty Air Force, and am able to support my family enough to attend. I know my future as a professional pilot WILL HAPPEN, and will begin at Flight Safety Academy!

[DE727UPS]

"You can love everything and dislike nothing here."

How about the price? In the end, you pay for all that glitz and glamor....bungalows....ect.

There are many tracks to success in aviation. FSI is one of them. So are little mom and pop flight schools. The difference is the price you pay the time it takes.

I'd encourage everyone to research the career, and flight schools, beyond what that magazine ads, marketers, and websites say. Talk to other CFI's besides your tour guide, talk to some students, and read the forums for a more accurate picture of reality.

[JEP]

[ QUOTE ]
NOTE: Follow this link to my photo album from the tour (you'll need a free Snapfish account): http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailsha...19/t_=10337235


[/ QUOTE ]

that link does not work.........

Bump that use bugmenot:

usr:fishsnap@bogus.com
pwd:fishsnap

[cime_sp]

[ QUOTE ]
"You can love everything and dislike nothing here."

How about the price? In the end, you pay for all that glitz and glamor....bungalows....ect.

There are many tracks to success in aviation. FSI is one of them. So are little mom and pop flight schools. The difference is the price you pay the time it takes.

I'd encourage everyone to research the career, and flight schools, beyond what that magazine ads, marketers, and websites say. Talk to other CFI's besides your tour guide, talk to some students, and read the forums for a more accurate picture of reality.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try and do the "mom-and-pop" in New York....trust me it costs MUCH more than FSI. It also takes a lot more time as well.

[Snow]

Keep in mind, I doubt the GI Bill will fund training at a 'mom and pop' school. From my understanding, after your private license the government pays for 60% of all your training expenses (room and board too?) Plus if I hadn't gone to FlightSafety I would never have gotten to do the First Officer Internship which led to the job I have now with a 135 charter operation.

I'm glad your enjoyed the tour, the school and training speaks for itself. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice, their quality of training is second to none.

[Robert_Quinn]

I was prepared to defend my post . You will pay out the *** if you want to be a pilot, period. Aspiring to be a pilot pretty much guarantees you poverty for life. How much you will pay is the question. Then the question of quality comes into play. I visited several mom and pop's or small FBO ops. *DISCLAIMER* Im not saying they are all like this, but they get away with a lot. I think you can find a lot of "marginal" flight instructors at these places. FSA is EXTREMELY regimented. It is run virtually identical to military flight schools. There are several checks and balances to keep only high quality flight instructors around. I am ALL about safety, this is a BIG safety net.

I also did my homework. I researched 12 different regional airlines. I found the emails and phone numbers to all the hiring or recruiter pilots. I contacted all 12. 9 returned my messages. I asked 3 questions. 1) What is the minimum "TT" your airlines are hiring at? 2) What is your opinion on regimented flight schools like ERAU, DCA, FSA? 3) Do you give TT exceptions to graduates of these regimented ab-initio schools, and if so what TT will you consider from a prospective pilot? ... Out of the 9 that returned my message, 7 (more than I thought would) replied with a very positive statement about regimented flight schools. From the replies, I deduced that unless you have 3000hrs TT, you may as well look into either ERAU, UND, DCA, or FSA. I saw hiring times as low as 700 in the replies!

So the next question in my mind was, "where would I prefer to attend" ? I toured all of the schools exccept for UND. I am about finished with a degree from ERAU. I ruled out all the other flight schools due to their QUALITY of resources and instructors. FSA is the ONLY CHOICE (for me).

The VA will pay up to 60% of all "APPROVED COSTS" at a CHAPTER 141 school only. This roughly pans out to about 49% of total costs for FSA's commercial program. The military will pay about $29,900. Thats a nice 06 Mustang GT to me!!! Thanks Air Force!

I have talked to several pilots while flying around to these different flight schools. They said save your money and go to small schools. One problem. You will still spend hand over fist for flight time. Being in a first class program is worth the extra few in my time. I am not rich by any means. In fact, I am at poverty level thanks to 6 yrs enlisted. I plan to work my *** off and build stability for my family. I WILL attend FSA, and will let you all know how it turns out!

[bLizZuE]

Glad you liked your visit. I will be starting on the 7th of September. Much like Snow did, I will be keeping a journal of my time there.

Here, as well as www.blizzue.com

[CLR4ILS]

[ QUOTE ]
How about the price? In the end, you pay for all that glitz and glamor....bungalows....ect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I don't know why ANYONE would want to pay for extremely well maintained aircraft fully equipped with an HSI, RMI, dual Garmin GPS etc, spatial disorientation training, upset attitude recovery training, and the opportunity to be instructed by some of the best flight and ground instructors in the industry.

What in the he!! is this guy thinking? He should go to a "mom and pop" FBO where he will get none of the above mentioned and still pay the same price....

[ QUOTE ]
FSI is one of them. So are little mom and pop flight schools. The difference is the price you pay the time it takes.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can gaurantee you students are better trained and finish training much earlier at FSA than at mom and pops FBO. I have flown out of FBO's in four different states. I have yet to find an FBO that can even come close to the training I recieved at FSA AND now days, the FBO's are charging the same prices as FSA.

[ QUOTE ]
a more accurate picture of reality.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you had better get a better look at reality 727. All you do is jump on here to bash "academy" schools. I will never challenge your opinion if a school is screwing a student but, you could at least have the professional courtesy to support the schools that provide a great service in training our future pilots.

Get a clue brother.... like I said, if you are bashing a school that has screwed a student, people will support and agree with you. If you bash a school like Flight Safety, people simply think you are here to talk smack. Flight Safety's reputation speaks for its self. There is a reason people do not bash this school, they were happy with their training and their decision to attend.

Safe flying my friend...ILS

[DE727UPS]

"you could at least have the professional courtesy to support the schools that provide a great service in training our future pilots."

Nobody I know personally who's been successful in aviation has gone the big academy route. They all did the mom and pop thing, including me. There is no reason for me to support FSA as I don't feel it's the best way to become a professional pilot.

By the way, one of your FSA buddies actually asked at a different forum here if you have to sign a guys logbook if you give him "duel".

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showfla...o=&fpart=1

I was surprised that the product of such a top notch school would ask this.

Also, you might want to notice I simply told this dude who said "You can love everything and dislike nothing here", after doing the tour, that the price you pay to go to FSA is quite high. How is this bashing FSA?

[rausda27]

[ QUOTE ]


By the way, one of your FSA buddies actually asked at a different forum here if you have to sign a guys logbook if you give him "duel".

http://jetcareers.com/forums/showfla...o=&fpart=1

I was surprised that the product of such a top notch school would ask this.

Also, you might want to notice I simply told this dude who said "You can love everything and dislike nothing here", after doing the tour, that the price you pay to go to FSA is quite high. How is this bashing FSA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I also went to FLightSafety and as a CFI, taught part 61 at an FBO in SC, Collegiate 141 in NY and Acdemy 141 at FlightSAfety. I agree, perhaps this question should be something a CFI knows, but it also something I learned at FLightSAfety, that if you are unsure about something, ask. I have seen what happens when a student or CFI assumes they know the right answer and often times, the results are not pretty. I would much rather someone ask a question to clarify rather than do something wrong and break a FAR or endanger themselves. 727, I dont think it wise to set up those kind of walls, just a personal opinion.

[DE727UPS]

I agree with you except I'd tend to look up the reg on my own first and then look it up at the FAQ's before I asked it on the internet. It was a pretty basic question.

My post was defensive in nature as I was being accused of lacking in professional courtesy for not being supportive of FSA, not having a clue, and not being in touch with reality.

Again, I see no reason to support FSA since I don't think it's the best way to become an airline pilot.

[RPM]

[ QUOTE ]
From the replies, I deduced that unless you have 3000hrs TT, you may as well look into either ERAU, UND, DCA, or FSA. I saw hiring times as low as 700 in the replies

[/ QUOTE ]

just an FYI, that is totally untrue....I have 6 good friends who have been hired into the regionals (Colgan, Xjet) within the last 5 months with UNDER 1000 hours and did NOT go to one of those big name schools! It is NOT necessary to spend twice as much money to get a job!

[Snow]

I might add that I've never officially worked as a CFI since getting my CFI ratings over 1/2 a year ago, so excuse me if I've forgotten some of it.

Also going to FlightSafety has nothing to do with meeting minimum requirements to get an airline job. We do several things and are not required by the regulations at all, such as spin training for pre instrument students, and instrument training in multi-engine aircraft. Yes, you can get a job with an airline without going to FlightSafety, but will you be as good of a pilot? Maybe, maybe not. Things first learned are best remembered, you may have to be retrained from your FBO ways when you get to the airlines but when it comes to an emergency situation your most likely going to revert what you learned first. That's not to say you can't get good training from an FBO but it's an unknown quantity. You know what you're going to get at FSA, good training, good aircraft and you will come out a good pilot. I did not make my choice to go to FlightSafety based on, what's the cheapest way I can make it to the airlines, rather, what route is going to give me the best training, equipment and employment opportunities. That's what I set out to get, and that's what I got. If that's not what you’re looking for, then by all means go somewhere else.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
I might add that I've never officially worked as a CFI since getting my CFI ratings over 1/2 a year ago, so excuse me if I've forgotten some of it.

Also going to FlightSafety has nothing to do with meeting minimum requirements to get an airline job. We do several things and are not required by the regulations at all, such as spin training for pre instrument students, and instrument training in multi-engine aircraft. Yes, you can get a job with an airline without going to FlightSafety, but will you be as good of a pilot? Maybe, maybe not. Things first learned are best remembered, you may have to be retrained from your FBO ways when you get to the airlines but when it comes to an emergency situation your most likely going to revert what you learned first. That's not to say you can't get good training from an FBO but it's an unknown quantity. You know what you're going to get at FSA, good training, good aircraft and you will come out a good pilot. I did not make my choice to go to FlightSafety based on, what's the cheapest way I can make it to the airlines, rather, what route is going to give me the best training, equipment and employment opportunities. That's what I set out to get, and that's what I got. If that's not what you’re looking for, then by all means go somewhere else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok,

Here I have to call the bull crap card. While I am very happy with the instruction and opportunities I have received from FSI, I certainly think there are some excellent part 61 schools and instructors out there. To assume that the part 61 training is inherently bad is just plain wrong. After all, I was a FSI standardized instructor, and my current part 61 students are benefitting from the same training that I gave at the academy. (Assuming it is in some way better than the standard training, which I don't believe is true.) One of our part-time instructors is a flight instructor for the U.S. Navy, and I don't think that many of us have anything on him.

To say that the airlines don't want to hire part 61 trained pilots because they might need to be "retrained" or because they might "revert" to their old ways is just absurd. I find that the people with the worst habits are those that have had their certificates for a while, not those that just came from their checkrides. I've learned the hard way to keep on high guard during BFRs, for instance...

As far as the employment opportunities go, yes, FSI provides good connections, but I find that many FBO's have good connections, especially in the local market. If you instruct at an FBO, you will be at the airport when the corporate guys come in, and after a while they will get to know you. Who knows, they might even ask for your resume some time.

Sorry J, I don't mean to stomp on you. I just think this thread smells a little too much like marketing hype, and I think we need to "keep it real" in this forum. After all, FSI is above that crap, right?

G

[DE727UPS]

"I just think this thread smells a little too much like marketing hype"

Thanks for you honest opinion, as an FSI guy. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Cav]

"I just think this thread smells a little too much like marketing hype"

Most of Snow's post do. You learn real quick in the real world that no one gives a $%$ where you went and if/when you do get a job you'll learn that you'll be eating alone a lot on the overnights if you can only talk about your flight school "glory days." Those people really suck.

As for training the best option is different for different people. For me it was a combination of of 61/141 and instructing in a 61 environment...I even beat EVERY SINGLE ONE of my FSA classmates into a regional job AND at almost half the cost. Remember there is more than one way to get there. Did I spend more than some people yes who did all 61 training, perhaps. Did I save money AND time by going to 4 different flight schools and spending my money efficiently following my gut instinct...definitely. Was one of the 4 schools better than the other? Not necessarily I enjoyed each for different reasons. Every dollar spent must have a purpose...except beer money of course that's just part of the budget. Remember, it comes down primarily to total time/multi time and attitude in the interview!

[Snow]

Well from my experence, I've haven't been impressed by the part 61 trained pilots that I've met. Plus pilots who's trained part 61 and then came to FSA will tell you the standard is much higher at FlightSafety. And Philo, didn't you start off part 61? why did you come to FSI? I did a lot of research on which school to attend (over 6 months worth) and I decided that FSA was the best place for me. That might not be true for someone else. All I'm saying is look at all your options before making a decision, tour several schools and then make your decision.

Btw, if I sounded cranky on the last post, that's because after the previous night's cargo run I had only 5hrs sleep come the afternoon. Sorry.

Peace

[DE727UPS]

"I've haven't been impressed by the part 61 trained pilots that I've met."

After the seeing the nature of the questions you ask, I'm not impressed with FSA, either.

[Cav]

[ QUOTE ]
Well from my experence, I've haven't been impressed by the part 61 trained pilots that I've met. Plus pilots who's trained part 61 and then came to FSA will tell you the standard is much higher at FlightSafety.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got to be freakin' kidding me! No offense but please STOP!!!!! You sound like a tool and you're making FSA look bad. I'm sure with your VAST experience you're able to make a determination about the quality of part 61 pilots! Give it a rest. Like I have said a thousand times, just because one school fit your personality/style/budget, doesn't make it the right fit for another nor does it have any correlation to the quality pilot they will become...only you can determine that.

I fly with probably 50/50 part 141 trained captains versus part 61 captains and see no real difference what so ever. One thing however is for certain, no appreciates an ego in the cockpit about something as trivial as the my flight school was better than your flight school BS.

[MikeD]

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One thing however is for certain, no appreciates an ego in the cockpit about something as trivial as the my flight school was better than your flight school BS.

[/ QUOTE ]

My flight school was still better than your flight school................

Kidding! I kid. I know what you mean.

[jonboy34]

After reading these posts on this topic i figured i would drop my 2 cents.
[ QUOTE ]
I have 6 good friends who have been hired into the regionals

[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt the point attempted was that only people who went to an academy would get hired by the regionals, who are hiring like crazy now...I instruct pt 61currently, and have had both sytle background from my training, and all I will say is that there is a difference between the 61 clients who come and have to be impressed so they will show up again, and those that attend the academy, and its all about motivation. This isn't to say that you wont find some motivated at the FBO, you will. However from what i have seen, the education and quality of training at the academy far far exceed that of whats expected at the FBO -- For pretty close to the same price that students are spending here at the FBO over the length of time it will take them to finish. I don't have the time to go into details, but trust me i've seen it both, and if I had the choice to make it all over again, there is no doubt I'd choose the academy. The benefits and options I continue to have far outweigh the con (slightly more $) If your goal is professional aviation, after knowing and experiencing what i have, absolutely I have to recommend FSI. If you are just very interested in seeing where aviation may take you, I would probably go day by day at the FBO. This of course is simply my opinion.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
Well from my experence, I've haven't been impressed by the part 61 trained pilots that I've met. Plus pilots who's trained part 61 and then came to FSA will tell you the standard is much higher at FlightSafety. And Philo, didn't you start off part 61? why did you come to FSI? I did a lot of research on which school to attend (over 6 months worth) and I decided that FSA was the best place for me. That might not be true for someone else. All I'm saying is look at all your options before making a decision, tour several schools and then make your decision.

Btw, if I sounded cranky on the last post, that's because after the previous night's cargo run I had only 5hrs sleep come the afternoon. Sorry.

Peace

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did start part 61. To be perfectly honest, if I could have found financing to do my training full time at the local FBO, I would have. FSI seemed to be the best of the schools that Key Bank worked with, so I went there.

Most of the part 61 people I've interfaced with are not career pilots, but people that fly 20-50 hours a year. Sure, they sometimes scare me, but that is a function of their motivation and currency level, not their training. Take a FSI student, and put him to his own devices for 2 years without seeing an instructor, and he will scare you too. Bad habits develop over time, especially with those not in this for a career.

Please do not get me wrong, I am very happy with FlightSafety. I feel very well trained, and FSI has certainly provided me with excellent contacts and opportunities. I owe quite a bit to them career wise. I just don't think they are the only way. Each of us has our own reasons for learning to fly, and we have our own unique strategies. Those that train at the local FBO have just chosen another route, and will likely be every bit as qualified as anyone else. Flying skill depends more on the individual than on the school, in my humble opinion.

G

[CLR4ILS]

[ QUOTE ]
that the price you pay to go to FSA is quite high.

[/ QUOTE ]


Here is a price qoute from a very very poor PART 61 school at Scottsdale airport.

Career Pilot Cost Breakdown

Private Pilot Training 40 Hours $5000
Instrument Pilot Training 40 Hours $4500
Multi Engine Pilot Training 20 Hours $5400
Required Flight Hours 130 Hours $12350
Commercial Pilot Training 20 Hours $3100
Exams and Training Supplies -------- $2500
Subtotal A 250 Hours $32850
Certified Flight Instructor 20 Hours $3325
Exams and Training Supplies -------- $400
Subtotal B 270 Hours $36575
Instrument Instructor 20 Hours $2900
Exams and Training Supplies -------- $400
Subtotal C 290 Hours $39475
Multi Engine Instructor 20 Hours $5400
Exams and Training Supplies -------- $400

Subtotal D 310 Hours $45275

Now, lets remember that at this particular "mom and pop" poor excuse of a "flight training center", the cost DOES NOT INCLUDE..... CRM class, unpset attitude recovery training, spatial disorientation training, 55 hours of multi engine time to include doing your instrument in the twin, extremely well maintained aircraft and facilities, and good training period....

This school did not break down the "actual" flight time vs. FTD time either. The school has about a 40% pass rate last I heard.


Like I have said in my previous posts....by the time you finish at "most" part 61 FBO schools you will be at around the same cost as FSA, ATP etc..... Not to mention the fact that it will be a total crap shoot whether you get a descent instructor or not. At least at Flight Safety all of the instructors are trained well and have been through standardization to be sure they teach EVERYTHING correctly.

About the only people I see complaining about the cost of Flight Safety and other quality schools are....the ones who didn't know any better and did not attend, OR the ones who attended and now have a student loan payment and are now thinking the grass may have been greener "financially" some where else.

I borrowed $40,000 for PPL through MEI at FSA and know it was money was well spent. Maybe I do not regret spending the money because I already paid the student loans off 100%. I will agree that there are some good IP's out in the 61 world but they are hard to find and if you look at the percentages and pass rates at FBO VS. Flight Safety......Hands down Flight Safety is the better choice..

ILS

[Cav]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a price qoute from a very very poor PART 61 school at Scottsdale airport.

[/ QUOTE ]

If FSA is the best why not compare them to a good Part 61 school rather than a "very very poor" one. Kind of defeats the purpose don't you think?

[CLR4ILS]

[ QUOTE ]
If FSA is the best why not compare them to a good Part 61 school rather than a "very very poor" one. Kind of defeats the purpose don't you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense Cav but you just had a 500 KT closure rate with the point and it is now 10 miles behind you.

The price.............

The schools name is Sawyer and they used to have an OK program and reputation. Now they charge Flight Safety prices with poor training and a very low pass rate.

I have flown and trained/been checked out at more than 6 part 61 FBO schools and I have not been impressed. In fact I have been concerned.

Let me say that being part 61a isn't really a bad thing. FSA does some 61 BUT......they do it well. Now being a un-organized, non-standardized, bucket flying mom and pop FBO school can be a bad thing.

You show me a M&P FBO school with a stellar program and high pass rate and then we have apples to apples. Heck, DE727 must know where one is since he fights schools like FSA so much. He probably owns one....


ILS