American Eagle @ Flight Safety?

[AV8TOR]

has anyone heard anything regarding the agreement between FS and AE? Only 400 hours...I think that's a little low on the timeline. You are still wet behind the ears. Looking to see what other people have to say about this agreement...thanks for the info

web page NEWS @ FLIGHTSAFETY

American Eagle Signs Agreement With FlightSafety’s Flight School on Pilot Recruitment Program

January 17, 2005

LA GUARDIA AIRPORT, New York (January 17, 2005) - American Eagle Airlines has defined its intention of recruiting new pilots through a program created by the FlightSafety Academy in Vero Beach, Florida.

Called a Direct Track Program, the process of qualification, evaluation, and recruitment is streamlined into a formal, consistent initiative. The number of hours of training in the American Eagle Airlines standardized operating procedures, at the Academy, is defined along with other qualifications such as pilot licenses, and hours flown in single and multi-engine aircraft.

With this program in place the aspiring new pilot can prepare for a professional flying career with the confidence that the steps being taken through the Direct Track Program in building a logbook are exactly in accordance with the requirements of an airline that is actively recruiting.

The Direct Track Program includes the use of the flight Academy’s full flight, FAA Level “D” simulator for the EMB-145 regional jet airliner, which is part of the American Eagle fleet. The program initially includes a combination of ground school, briefing/debriefing and single and multi-engine evaluations. The initial phases are followed by Line Operational Experience - then Advanced Simulator training.

The program’s compliance with the American Eagle procedures provides experience in the formality of the airline environment and prepares the candidate to meet the airline’s stringent evaluations with confidence. The modules of the program total 13 weeks of preparation for the pilot who has proven his or her eligibility. The qualifications include an accumulation of at least 400 hours of total flight time, including 100 hours of multi-engine time, of which 43 hours may be accumulated in the Direct Track program.

The FlightSafety Academy has been preparing pilots for professional flying careers for nearly 40 years. The Academy’s campus at Vero Beach Airport encompasses student and academic facilities and includes one of the largest fleet of training aircraft in the United States. The Academy is the only initial training establishment to include FAA- approved Level “D” full flight simulators in its facilities, along with a wide range of advanced training devices. The air fleet includes two aerobatic aircraft for upset and disorientation training.

[rausda27]

This is one of three programs FLightSafety has, Eagle, ExpressJet and ASA.

[AV8TOR]

I hear ya.....but has anyone heard anything GOOD or BAD regarding this program?

[DE727UPS]

"Only 400 hours...I think that's a little low on the timeline. You are still wet behind the ears."

I don't like the idea of 400 hour pilots, FSA trained or not, flying around in RJ's. Never have, never will. With that kind of time, you are being baby sat for your first couple hundred hours and don't have the experience to contribute your fair share to the operation. It's a burden on the Captain.

That said, these programs have been around for a long time and will probably expand with the kind of money that can be made with them.

Pinnacle recently stopped hiring low time Gulfstream guys because of a couple of bad incidents. Word is, the insurance company made them do it.

[rausda27]

ASA program has been around since the '90s. About whether it works or not, the ten or so candidates that I have been involved with in the program all are either in class or out of IOE in the CRJ. Their training at ASA did not differ it the slightest from those off the street with much more time. That all made it through initial, IOE and so on with no problems. There are a couple of them who brouse these forums, so perhaps they could chime in with some first person perspective.

[AV8TOR]

I personally think 400 hours is low, compared to what AE is hiring at if you walk in off the streets. Here is what is stated on their website
So somehow the training that you get at FS will cut mins by 600 hours. That's sounds like one of those "too good to be true" ads. But I think that if they are willing to put that on the line, it's worth checking into. I don't know of any pilots that went thru FS, being that I am still new to flying.
If anyone is going thru one of these programs or has graduated from their program, feel free to let me know what you think of the training.

To be considered for an interview with American Eagle, Flight Officer applicants must meet the following minimum requirements:

Commercial Pilot Certification with Multi-engine and Instrument ratings

Total fixed wing time to exceed 1000 hours*

Multi-engine fixed wing time in excess of 100 hours*

A current flying job (12 month experience)

Current FAA First Class Medical

IFR Currency

FCC License

Possess the ability to work in the US

Possess the ability to travel in and out of the US to all cities/countries served by American Eagle

Ability to relocate

Ability to work weekends, nights, shifts, holidays, and overnight trips

Minimum age 21

<font color="red"> </font>

[rausda27]

I am an instructor in the ASA program which is one of the three direct track programs at FlightSafety. All I can say is that it seems to work, as I stated earlier I have been personally involved with 10 or so candidates. The key is that all the candiates must first interview with the airline and get a conditional offer of employment. Once they have this offer, they complete the training in Vero Beach, some multi IFR and then into the ERJ-145 level D. When they finish, they take another company checkride and then wait for their class date. If you have any other questions about the program, feel free to ask.

[AV8TOR]

So you are an ASA instructor? Are you trying to get a job with ASA? or just like teaching people to fly? That's what I am worried about, I plan on getting my CFI's, but I'm not sure that I will be able to teach someone to fly or teach the Instrument training. I have seen that a lot of schools over these direct track program. I know that you loose out on a lot of skills that you acquire but I really don't think I have the capabilities to teach someone how to fly. That's why I am looking into these programs

Thanks again for your help and advise

[cime_sp]

A little busy with work right now, but I should be able to reply soon. I did go through the ASA program and am on the line with the airline.

I'll be back with a first person perspective soon!!!

[rausda27]

To clarify, I am an instructor at FlightSafety and one of the instructors in the ASA direct track program. I was a CFI in the 141 program prior to getting involved with the direct track students. I interviewed and was hired by ASA earlier this year, I am just waiting for my class date.


[ QUOTE ]
So you are an ASA instructor? Are you trying to get a job with ASA? or just like teaching people to fly? That's what I am worried about, I plan on getting my CFI's, but I'm not sure that I will be able to teach someone to fly or teach the Instrument training. I have seen that a lot of schools over these direct track program. I know that you loose out on a lot of skills that you acquire but I really don't think I have the capabilities to teach someone how to fly. That's why I am looking into these programs

Thanks again for your help and advise

[/ QUOTE ]

[AV8TOR]

How many hours do you have now, and what were your hours when you were hired by ASA?

What about the people that go in for their interview and they don't make it? Do they get another shot at a different airline? Or can they re-interview with them? How many people have you seen that didn't make the cut for ASA?

[rausda27]

Unfortunately, I really dont know the number that interview and dont make it as I only see them after they get the conditional offer of employment. The percentage that complete the training after getting the COE is very high.

[EatSleepFly]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear ya.....but has anyone heard anything GOOD or BAD regarding this program?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the end result is that you end up working for American Eagle..........


'nuff said.

[AV8TOR]

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the end result is that you end up working for American Eagle..........
'nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]



Really they aren't that good to be working for? I honestly don't know. I figured they would be pretty good, but I haven't heard anything about them

[EatSleepFly]

Don't ask me, I'm biased. Seriously.

[AV8TOR]

Oh yeah,

what would be a good regional to try to get with once you get the hours? ASA? Express Jet?

[EatSleepFly]

It's a crapshoot, IMO. I'm the wrong person to be answering your questions though, sorry.

Rausda is a good guy, he pays more attention to these sort of things. I'm sure he can give you some better advice than I can.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
I hear ya.....but has anyone heard anything GOOD or BAD regarding this program?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an intern with ASA at the moment, and I work closely with the instructors that actually do the ASA direct track interviews and checkrides. They speak highly of the FSI candidates, and of the program itself. Most of the candidates have a much better time with the systems and sim training than an off the street 1200 hour CFI.

From ASA's perspective, the people coming into the program are "known quantities." They come from a training program that has been approved by ASA, and once they complete the direct track program they have all of the ASA procedures in mind.

To quote one of the instructors here at ASA... "I'd rather have a 300 hour pilot with no bad habits yet learned than a 1200 hour pilot who has been scud running for the past 1000 hours. They are trainable."

G

[PhilosopherPilot]

DISCLAIMER:

Before I get misquoted, let me say that the instructor who said the above quote is not involved in hiring. He was purely speaking from an instructional point of view, not a hiring point of view.

G

[av8trxx]

[ QUOTE ]
has anyone heard anything regarding the agreement between FS and AE? Only 400 hours...I think that's a little low on the timeline. You are still wet behind the ears. Looking to see what other people have to say about this agreement...thanks for the info

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an agreement. Something that can make FS look good. Unfortunately, to get hired the company needs to be actually hiring. Currently, hiring at AE has slowed to a crawl and is only enough to fill attrition. I'd look at the other airlines and see what their projected hiring is as well. Sounds as if ASA has slowed too. If that is the case, CoEx may be the only real viable option out of this 'affiliation' w/FS.

While they guarantee you an interview, you do not necessarily end up with a job. I know someone who went to FS for the chance to interview with these carriers and they did not get hired. In fact, one so called 'interview' was only 4 questions! It seems they were just going through the motions in the interview so FS would be considered as holding up their end of the bargain. Also, since you only need to get an interview, why would you get the job over the others in the group when they have at least 1,000TT+, many with previous 121 or 135 experience? Food for thought before you lay down any money for such a program.

[PhilosopherPilot]

[ QUOTE ]


It's an agreement. Something that can make FS look good. Unfortunately, to get hired the company needs to be actually hiring. Currently, hiring at AE has slowed to a crawl and is only enough to fill attrition. I'd look at the other airlines and see what their projected hiring is as well. Sounds as if ASA has slowed too. If that is the case, CoEx may be the only real viable option out of this 'affiliation' w/FS.

While they guarantee you an interview, you do not necessarily end up with a job. I know someone who went to FS for the chance to interview with these carriers and they did not get hired. In fact, one so called 'interview' was only 4 questions! It seems they were just going through the motions in the interview so FS would be considered as holding up their end of the bargain. Also, since you only need to get an interview, why would you get the job over the others in the group when they have at least 1,000TT+, many with previous 121 or 135 experience? Food for thought before you lay down any money for such a program.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well, first of all, ASA is not slowing the hiring. They are going to maintain a high level at least through the rest of the year, and likely beyond if they don't get caught up.

As far as the interview goes, you have that before you do the training, so you do not expend any money on the program unless you are hired. You do not "lay down any money" before you already have the conditional offer of employment. You are hired unless you screw up the training, and that ball, of course, is in your court.

The Direct Track people are not considered at the expense of other people interviewing. ASA accepts 5 per month into the program. (Rausda correct me if I'm wrong about the number these days.)

Again, I only know about ASA's hiring levels, not the others, but if they sign an agreement with FSI for a certain number per month, they will have that many interviews as long as they are hiring. And since you don't pay for the program until you have had an interview and been accepted, you won't lose any money if the airline isn't hiring because you won't even get the interview in the first place.

G

[hierhier]

PhilosopherPilot-

I was looking into the program also but as a candiate from the outside. From what the lady told me at FS, people from the outside have to pay 5k for multi and single evaluation flights, then are allowed to interview. Is this right? I just don't see why FS would make someone fork out 5k for roughly 15 hours of "evaluation flights."

Just curious what you have heard.

[PhilosopherPilot]

Well, if you didn't do any training at FSI they don't know much about you as a pilot. ASA won't hire someone unless they know they are getting a quality pilot. FSI would lose credibility if they backed anyone who came forward for the program, and ASA would eventually stop the program if FSI people started washing out.

They only recently have begun taking pilots from the outside for the direct track, so I don't know as much about it. It makes the most sense for someone who did their training at FSI, since they are then automatically qualified to interview with ASA.

If you come from the outside, yes you do have to be evaluated before you interview, so there is a little more involved. Of course, with several airlines affiliated, you have a good chance of being accepted by at least one.

Again, Rausda help me out here... I've been out of the system for a few months now.

G

[rausda27]

Yes, Philosopher is correct. Candidates from the outside must go through a series of evaluation flights. There is a good reason for this, as he stated the airline contracts expect a certain proficiency from the pilots prior to starting the actual training. The flights are not just an evaluation, I have taught students quite a bit on these flights in an attempt to bring their instrument skills up to speed.

[FlyingDawg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
has anyone heard anything regarding the agreement between FS and AE? Only 400 hours...I think that's a little low on the timeline. You are still wet behind the ears. Looking to see what other people have to say about this agreement...thanks for the info

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an agreement. Something that can make FS look good. Unfortunately, to get hired the company needs to be actually hiring. Currently, hiring at AE has slowed to a crawl and is only enough to fill attrition. I'd look at the other airlines and see what their projected hiring is as well. Sounds as if ASA has slowed too. If that is the case, CoEx may be the only real viable option out of this 'affiliation' w/FS.

While they guarantee you an interview, you do not necessarily end up with a job. I know someone who went to FS for the chance to interview with these carriers and they did not get hired. In fact, one so called 'interview' was only 4 questions! It seems they were just going through the motions in the interview so FS would be considered as holding up their end of the bargain. Also, since you only need to get an interview, why would you get the job over the others in the group when they have at least 1,000TT+, many with previous 121 or 135 experience? Food for thought before you lay down any money for such a program.



[/ QUOTE ]

The Direct Track program is more than an agreement between the airlines and FlightSafety. All three programs were written with the help of each airline using the actual checklists and procedures from their operation manuals. This helps provide better training and compensate a bit for the lower time. The final checkrides in the ERJ-145 are given by a check airman from the airline.

It is not a generic program where you go through the training and then get an interview, the interview is done first. If the airlines are not hiring then FSA will not run the program. Only the people who are given a Conditional Offer of Employment as a result of the interview go through the 10 week program, so there is no money put out for training unless you are conditionally hired, with the exception of people who are not FSA grads, they must complete the 3 week evaluation first.
As far as someone from the outside, I think Phil Pilot and Rausda covered it. The program was put together by the airlines and FSA from what each airline knows about the training and final product that FSA produces. There has to be some evaluation/standardization. Anyone can say they are a good pilot. I think the cost is $5000 but it is 12 ME 5hr SE 3 hrs Frasca and something like 15hr Ground School plus briefing and other misc costs. Again this evaluation was put together with the help of the airline.

In regards to the the person who had only 4 questions, that was the very first ExpressJet interviews and there was some confusion as to how the interview was going to be conducted. Things have been worked out and everything is running smoothly. If your friend did not get hired by ExpressJet, then he/she would have had an opportunity to interview with ASA unless they already did and did not get hired or they did not want to interview with anyone else.

AE does a 50 questiosn ATP test, an HR interview and a Technical interview. ASA does a 30 questions ATP and an HR and Tech interview with the candidates. The interviews are done one on one and there are no 1000 hour pilots interviewing, just direct track candidates from FSA.

Just for the record the Direct Track program started years ago with ASA and they do not have any hour requirements like AE and ExpressJet does only a CIME is required. There have been almost 200 pilots that have completed the program and not one person has washed out of Indoc once they arrive at ASA.